wesleymarsh

>>Tipping is a form of appreciation and encouragement. It is hard to stop thinking in those terms.<<
That's precisely what I meant by choosing to ignore the research.

>>I'm talking about the ones that show up on every tipping thread and refuse to tip European style even after the local custom is explained to them.<<
I don't hang out on this board. How many people are we talking about here? Are 5 anonymous, annoying posters really worth any concern? Do you really know for sure what they do off the board? If they travel at all?

Travel boards are a microscopic example of the real world of travel. People who spend a lot of time on these boards tend to acquire tunnel vision. I know so many travelers who don't know what the name Fodor's means or what it represents.

>>And workers here try to avoid serving Europeans.<<
Pure nonsense. I know a veteran waiter at Restaurant Daniel who says Europeans are among his most generous customers. A lot depends on whether your service business can attract an educated customer, and there are a lot of educated Europeans who travel to New York City. They know 20% is the norm, and they know what to do if they want to be remembered on a return visit.

Trophywife007

There's nothing like a good "tipping in Paris" thread to stir things up. Thanks, OP. You've been here long enough to already know the answer and where this discussion leads.

xcountry

"I know so many travelers who don't know what the name Fodor's means ..."

It means "welcome, you're wrong".

PalenQ

Yes tipping in Europe always brings up these discussions where many Americans say to tip and Europeans say never ever never.

and on and on and on.

OP got his/her answer - but discussion swirls on and on and on and...

Europeans get a decent wage - a living wage with benefits (in France at least) and have things like universal affordable health care.

Q- how much should I tip the pilot on the way over?

Robert2016

I always love "Europeans get a decent wage - a living wage with benefits". I'm so happy with that. So I guess there's no reason to tip someone so financially well off.

>In France, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD $29,759 a year, more than the OECD average of USD $29,016 a year. But there is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest – the top 20% of the population earn close to five times as much as the bottom 20%. (i.e. maids)<

In the States the top 5% earn as much as the bottom 50% or maybe 60%, so I guess that's the difference. A few years ago California's statewide per capita income was USD $61,320, nationally it was USD $53,291, a drop in the bucket when compared to the top 5% of wage earners.

vincenzo32951

What: >>I guess it is too much asking that you stay remotely polite ?<<

Is this your version of "no interaction"?

>>I propose you read your last post towards me as if it was directed towards you and you'll easily imagine the answer you'd make. <<

You're babbling.

>>Then consider the answer as mine, I personally prefer to stay polite it suits my royal pompous 'derriere' better. <<

Are you familiar with the term "Who cares?"

>>In case it is too much for you I can make it like a game : complete the sentence ...
Vafan...<<

Repeat after me: No interaction. Rinse. Repeat.

vincenzo32951

thur: >>I am a naturalized US citizen and have lived there quite a bit longer than I lived in the UK.<<

You still haven't shed the curse of Europe. Keep working on it.

PalenQ

I always love "Europeans get a decent wage - a living wage with benefits". I'm so happy with that. So I guess there's no reason to tip someone so financially well off.>

Europeans don't think so and they are better judges of this than Americans or stats - under your theory why not tip every low paid worker - McDonalds staff, etc in U.S.

France has all kinds of social programs to help augment income I believe -like per annum payments for each kid up to 18 or so and subsidized housing costs and of course free medical care to anyone if they cannot afford it.

Anyway one harbinger of job satisfication to me is I see the same people working at the same cafes in France for years - that tells me they are making a living wage.

Robert2016

>Anyway one harbinger of job satisfication to me is I see the same people working at the same cafes in France for years - that tells me they are making a living wage.<

Wow! Such an insighful observation!

American's have free medical care. It's called ER.

AJPeabody

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-the-pilot.cfm

Tulips

I have a hard time understanding tipping culture in the US. You tip the barman at the St Regis when you order a beer, but not the guy behind the counter of McDonalds. Because the McDonalds guy is paid more than the barman of the St Regis, obviously. You tip your hairdresser, but not your dry-cleaner?

If Americans insist on doing whatever they do at home, I propose that we charge them American health care prices if they need to use a doctor or ER while in Europe.

Whathello

Who said no interaction vin ?
juat be polite
All I ask.
Now if you could drop dead I would not complain.
But just stay polite.

Christina

I don't understand it, either, and really dislike American tipping culture. In theory, the idea is that it is for "personal service", which gets into almost servant-like class things, which is another reason I dislike it. It's not just based on wages the person earns. In the US, there are state laws that actually defined which professions are considered tipped professions and which are not, and employers are legally allowed to pay less than minimum wage to those categories labeled tipped professions. Now legally, a person has to make minimum wage in the US, so in theory, if a person does not and is in that category, the employer has to make up the difference. How that works in practice, I have no idea.

I don't really get how someone cleaning a room is my personal servant instead of an employee working for the hotel which is who I am paying my money to in order to provide me with a clean room to sleep in. And a bartender is no more a personal servant than a guy at McDonalds, as you said, they hand you something you bought. I don't know what barmen make at the St Regis, but McDonalds workers often earn around $10 an hour where I live and that is hard work in a more unpleasant environment. Hotel maids make about $10-20 an hour where I live also, at least in the major downtown hotels. They probably don't make $20 an hour in suburban motels.

Hairdressers I can see are more personal as they are touching your personal self. Still, that is their job. I don't have a dog but wonder if dogowners tip the person who cuts the dog's hair?

A lot of people don't really understand the benefits difference, also. In the US, employers are not required to give ANY benefits at all like sick leave or vacation or holidays. They don't have to give health insurance if they are a small employer, either.

>>Tipping is a form of appreciation and encouragement. It is hard to stop thinking in those terms.<<
I don't agree with that at all, this isn't a gold star to give someone "encouragement" in their career path. And I don't think it has much to do with appreciation, either, and studies have shown that (for the US). It does a little bit but I think studies have shown that a lot of people tip the exact same amount regardless of the service they get. I think people generally tip because in the US, it is expected that it is a major part of the payment for certain occupations, that all. Most people don't do it to be nice or encouraging, they just do it to try to be fair given the wage structure in the US and lack of workers' rights and benefits in many jobs.

I don't tip in Europe, not much anyway, in any country with service charges included on bills, nor do I tip people working for the hotel.

vincenzo32951

What: >>Who said no interaction vin ?<<

"I am absolutely not interested in discussion with you Vincenzo. <<

You need to be tested for short-term memory. I'm concerned about you.

>>juat be polite <<

I'll consider the source.

>>Now if you could drop dead I would not complain.<<

What are you, about 13 years old?

Whathello

I adapt mate. I adapt.
A guy who tells me i am a pompous a$$ tells me he considers the source ?
Drop dead mate.

IMDonehere

The resentment of the Europeans towards Americans is founded in that Europeans want to maintain the caste system and justify their their cheapness by counting the salary of others and deciding it is sufficient.

How many Europeans on these boards work for others in restaurants, in hotels, and cabbies think their wages are sufficient?

Show of hands please.

Trophywife007

AJPeabody on Aug 16, 17 at 11:50am

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-the-pilot.cfm


I love that thread... too bad many of the billyandbettyjones threads got deleted. Let's also not forget "Pray for the Leg." Here's a blast from the past...

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...m#last-comment

Trophywife007

@IMDonehere -- I think they also worry that the tipping culture will infect their countries.

vincenzo32951

>>I adapt mate. I adapt. <<

That's what my great-grandfather said before they locked him away. He was FOS, too.

>>Drop dead mate.<<

Oh. You're repeating yourself, too. This could be serious, when combined with the memory loss.

PalenQ

http://www.wageindicator.org/main/sa...um-wage/france

Minimum wage in France about $12/hr but benefits like free health care boost that up - no not a princely sum at all - not sure what hotel, restaurant workers make - maybe more but not less.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28793677

Says 15% of French never tip wait staff in restaurantsup from 7% year before - are French Fodorgarchs cheap skates or are the figures wrong?