Cowboy1968

I assume some people sometimes mix up what is the norm and what is the exception.

I guess you can say that the average waiter in France can be reserved, compared to his American counterpart. But so is any waiter between Sevilla and Helsinki.
You are not supposed to handle fruits with bare hands. Fine, but same goes for Italy or elsewhere.
You say Bonjour when you enter a (small) store - but I've also been greeted a zillion times when I was entering a small store in the States. You obviously don't scream Bonjour into each corner of the store when you go into Galleries Lafayette.

Actually, it is a total myth that it is local customs in France to throw yourself at the mercy of a waiter or accept lousy service. They will not make a fuzz about nothing, but if the restaurant should not get the meals right or the sommelier brings the wrong wine at a wrong temperature you can experience what happens when monsieur le client is losing his patience. It may still be in a polite tone if you can't understand the language, but the content can be crystal clear in what the customer thinks of the waiter and the establishment.

Fra_Diavolo

cold --
Other side of the coin. I speak a little French from my Foreign Service days, though it's a bit rusty now. It worked in France last time. But I was surprised during a short trip to Montreal last fall that no one seemed to understand me. I mean, no one. They switched to English and didn't appear annoyed (smart, with a paying customer).

kerouac

I've kept out of this because I smell a troll.

colduphere

That's interesting Fra_Diavolo. I think most would say that French from France is much much easier to understand than French in Canada (there are a few variations up here). The French are much more precise. So I would have thought your French would be easily understandable in Montreal.

Someone may have an answer.

Nikki

I don't smell a troll, but then again I seldom do.

I know this is an attitude held by many, and I have encountered it over and over again when I say I am going to France. And it isn't held exclusively by people who have never been there; I have had conversations with people who describe their bad experiences in France. I am never sure whether to ascribe this to misunderstanding, which is probably the case a good bit of the time; or to general lack of comfort in unfamiliar surroundings; or to provocation; or to self-fulfilling prophecy.

StCirq

I occasionally watch Canadian news in French, and every time I do it occurs to me that the accent and intonation sound very much like what my elderly neighbors in the Périgord sound like. It's a kind of nasal twang and the overemphasis of final syllables, like they're talking through a kazoo.

nytraveler

I think a lot of it is people who expect rudenss and conflict and then either see it where it isn't or cause it.

My second trip to Paris we encountered some people going the same place and decided to share a cab - before we realized they were hauling a ton of luggage. Long story short - at the end of the ride they were outraged when they were charged extra for luggage - and started shouting about being cheated. The official rate sheet - which the cabbie had, clearly showed the specific (minimal) charge but they went on at a great rate - louder and louder - about not wanting to be cheated. We paid for their luggage (they didn't know) just to get them to shut up and stop embarassing us. And they were still convinved they were right - even without a word of French (and I had enough to red the rate info).

Voila! Rude french cab driver trying to cheat them.

tedgale

It's very hard to generalize about spoken Canadian French.

I agree it's not a euphonious accent. But the best Quebec French is very good and very lightly and pleasantly accented.

The worst "joual" and - lower still on the scale - really bad Ontario French are horrid, a linguistic abomination and full of quite unnecessary Anglicisms.

Acadien French is a mystery to me. Meaning I can't follow it, not that I haven't heard it.

I'd say the standard of spoken French is far more even in France, though I admit I've never dealt with the rural peasantry or the urban underclass.

denisea

NO! I have been to France 5 times and had no hint of rudeness. Although I don't speak French, I always try and have learned enough to get by on. We do make an effort to not be too loud at restaurants and other public places, are polite and patient and have had great experiences.

My husband has a theory that the rudeness people say they encounter is their own rudeness being reflected back on them. I HAVE seen some behavior from my fellow Americans that I want to apologize for and it makes me cringe. (Please don't snap at people to get their attention)!

I remember a local man at a cafe making a point to ask me where I am from and saying, "welcome"...no rudeness at all.

If your husband won't go...go on your own. Do try to learn a few words and phrases, smile and you will have a great time. France is amazing...don't miss it!

tedgale

At one time, the Cabinet minister responsible for my department was an Acadien from Nova Scotia. At Christmas he wished us all a "Yoyeux Noel". I was gobsmacked.

Rastaguytoday

tedgale - I have, in Dijon. Surprised me as I was in a bar, waiting to be seated for dinner.

Someone on the sidewalk outside where I was, started yelling. One of the men at the bar went outside and they proceeded to punch and wrestle each other.

The locals didn't think much of it, as if it happened frequently. Kind weird.

Cowboy1968

That was probably a Roman outside that bar. If you had been socialized with Asterix cartoons like us in Europe, you would have known that fist fights are a daily exercise in Gaul. Especially after too much magic potion or with Romans around to beat up.
http://www.free-hdwallpapers.com/wal...ment/46499.jpg

Aduchamp1

. I'm certain there are plenty of others with great experiences from pre-Albertville. As others have said, if you go looking for rudeness, you'll probably find it.
_____
I do not look for it. We have made live-long friends with people from other coutries. We just came back from the UK and Ireland and they are among the nicest people we have ever encountered. And the Spanish and Italians are extremely gracious and kind when you attempt to speak their language.

PalenQ

No - but as my French son who grew up in France and many of his relatives claim the French are rude to everyone, even the French!

colduphere

I have tried very, very hard to learn a few words of Scottish. But they still speak back to me in complete gibberish.

Cathinjoetown

Just a couple of comments.

I completely agree that formailty of address is much more important, the French generally are not as direct, almost all queries, conversations, greetings start with "Bonjour, madame or monsieur, " or the person's name if you know it, rather than launching straight in as we Americans tend to do.

I've been taking French for 3 years in a structured class of from 8-10, a core group of 5 have been at it for the full 3 years. Our instructor said last month, that if we were all in agreement, she thought we could start to use "tu" (tutoyer) as an address instead of "vous".

Apart from the occasional difficult fontionnaire, which could be anywhere, the French have been helpful, kind and welcoming to us.

ira

Hi FD,

>I speak a little French from my Foreign Service days, though it's a bit rusty now. It worked in France last time. But I was surprised during a short trip to Montreal last fall that no one seemed to understand me.<

I've been able to get over the years with my increasingly rusty and out of date Parisian French, but on a visit to Alsace the proprietor of the hotel where we were staying requested that I please speak to him in German.


I'm not sure if it was because Parisian was too different from what he grew up with or that he found my Brooklyn accent unbearable.

justineparis

I have a feeling that your husbands friends are either dolts, or have never been to France. Pick one.

I also do not understand why any negative interaction with a service person is blamed on them not liking your nationality.How pray tell do they even know if you are American, I know I sound just like an American .. wear same clothes , watch same tv shows,, I live near Canadian/American border . It seems a bit conceited to assume that all english speaking tourists are American, they are not, so perhaps they "hate" the Aussies, Brits and Canadains too? No, of course not,, how about , the waiter just had a fight with his wife, or his dog died that morning, and he is just having a bad day? Does anyone ever just think they are freaking humans, and like anyone some have good and bad days and you may accidently be on the recieving end of a grump, who may well be grump equally to everyone !

The rudest waiter we had was in Hawaii.. do Hawaiians hate Canadians?

tedgale

Cathinjoetown: if you and your classmates addressed each other by your first names, it would be anomalous to use vous. Your teacher should have made the switch long ago, IMO. If you were Monsieur and Madame to each other, that's a different story.

tipsygus

Colduphere, I was married to a Scot for over 20 years and still had to ask for a translation.