tedgale, thanks. Help in Iraqi would be nice, but more help along the border and at transportation/shipping points is more important right now.

Re mgmargate, do us all a favour, don't travel you narrow minded ignorant small time person, thank you!

In answer to Gardyloo, there is a line somewhere that I wouldn't cross. I know that I would not have traveled to South Africa during apartheid nor would I have knowingly purchased a product to support that economy. Possibly the deciding factor would be how much the political issue permeated the society of the country.

Most of the time I can draw a line between the people of a country and the actions of their government, but there are some instances in which that may not be possible.

m_Kingdom2, have you looked in a mirror lately? Get your own house in order before you dare to bad mouth others.

mk2:

You know, on this occasion there really is no need to be obnoxious.

mgmargate has every right to restrict his or her travels to countries that show "loyalty"

Which, given the US' stabbing of the backs of Britain, France and Israel in 1956, rules the US out.

And given the near-total lack of support in practically every other country in the world - including the UK and Australia -for what the US is doing in Iraq leaves everywhere else out.

Except, of course Iraq. Where doubtless mgmargate would be happy.

tedgale and Chatnoir

I am sorry to have upset you with what was intended to be a lighthearted comment about my home and native land's lousy weather (and rather boring election.) I go now to sin no more.... or at least not until next week.......

I will admit to buying a T-shirt (made in the USA, union labor) from Tom Binh .

MK2:You are ignorant. I never start these posts, but when I respond out of personal principal narrow minded people like you spew nonsense because I disagree with you.Loon's crack me up.

Flanneruk: Stop embarrasing yourself.The U.S. might not be perfect but the world is a much better place because of the money and blood of our soldiers we spend abroad.We are back to the same facts.The main opponents to our policy opposed us for no other reason then they were bribed with money and the threat of exposure of there criminal acts.The facts of what went on are slowly emerging despite the attempts of Kofi,Chirac etc to cover them up.Why don't you try to dispute the FACTS!

Blind patriotism? A victim of propaganda?

I'm thinking Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq.... all wonderful outcomes with no meaningless loss of life?

>I think it was that great American president George Washington who said that a nation can have no permanent friends or permanent enemies - only permanent interests.<

Interesting about this quote.

It's by Lord Palmerston (1848), but has beeen attributed to DeGaulle, Kissinger, and now Washington.

Flanneruk, re: your response to my comment about my aborted trip to France last year: travel decisions are often subjectively made. And I have been back to France since then and will continue to go. I imagine my husband will accompany me from time to time, as in the past.

Ira: As sad as it is I think you are correct,history shows it time and time again.On a personal level it doesn't make it anymore palatable.

Hi Leelani. Unless the gov't of a country has a regularly enforced policy of meeting Americans at the airport, loading them in a van, taking them to an isolated location and shooting them, I'd probably go anywhere. However, if as a woman I'd be less than welcomed, I'll spend my money elsewhere. That said, if you don't want a political discussion, you probably shouldn't ask questions about politics. This site - as evidenced by the number of responses in one day - is filled with people who love a good argument, political or otherwise.

Who knows, without France and Spain, there may not have been a country as we know it....


From the National Archives (of the USA):

Washington battled both the British army and shortages facing his men. Supplies for the Continental army were often insufficient. While the colonies were in revolt, their government was based on the proposed Articles of Confederation, although the government established by the Articles was limited in power. For example, the Congress lacked a power to raise money through taxes. The new government had to attract respect, aid, and recognition from other nations. One of the first to do so was Spain, who had colonies to the south of the English colonies. One of the best successes came from the diplomatic efforts of Benjamin Franklin, who was sent to Paris to negotiate with Britain's traditional enemy.

At first, France could not openly aid the American cause. Franklin was well known in France, and did his best to appear as American as the people in France had expected. It helped that the Articles of Confederation established by the Second Continental Congress showed that the Americans had plans for their future.

International support played a major role in the success of the colonies' revolution. The efforts of Franklin and others in negotiating with the French for supplies and aid were vital. In fact, some European soldiers came to America, inspired by the revolution that was occurring. Notable among these arrivals were Baron Von Steuben from Prussia and the young French Marquis de Lafayette. Both played significant parts in improving the American military's abilities.

MichelParis: There is no dispute here.I guess we fall back to the adage,What have you done for me lately.We more than paid back the French for there help 230 years ago.

Shanna, I didn't ask to hear political views. I asked if those views affected your travel plans, pure and simple. Unfortunately, with the way the thread is going (personal attacks), it isn't long for this world!

I respect everyone's right to take vacations and spend their money as they see fit. I thought it was a good question...........

mgmargate - obviously your history book is different from everyone elses.Mebbe you should only visit where your own history & dogma is accepted.
Also you can't "spend" other peoples blood.Its not money, you can't get it back by work.You pay nothing, they give everything.
Those in SE Asia, Chile etc will be glad to know that they are better off for your big "spending" (sorry, still cant get used to that concept....)

Well, back to the question at hand. I may be mistaken in this, but it seems your friends are of a conservative bent. If this is so, they are probably opposed to gay marriage.

In Massachusetts, gay marriage is now legal. Are they vowing never to enjoy Cape Cod, Boston, etc. for this reason?
It's the same logic.

Me, I'm not going back to Beantown until my beloved Red Sox get back into the World Series. (So it looks like France again this year, Ireland the next, the kids want to see Italy...

I have visited several European countries, and sadly I will not be back to see some again in my lifetime.

It is not only their government's politics, but the overwhelming anti-American attitudes of the people in those countries. What I see on TV and read in the newspapers about the hatred of America in some countries is so discouraging and shocking that I can't imagine any thinking American would want to support such pathologic venom and lunacy. It is not only what France (for example) has done, but what the ordinary French citizen thinks.

Each to his/her own. I will spend my money in more friendly places.