dgruzew

"I'm just wondering here, do you and/or your "dear friend" avoid traveling to states in the USA, where the electoral votes went to the other candidate in the last election???"

Just curious - does any do this or know anyone that did this? I never thought about it but it makes about as much sense as boycotting France or Germany

dgruzew

Oh by the way - how come my amfali coast question(which I just topped) doesnt get nearly as much traffic as this one!!!

Neil_Oz

Thanks, Elle - what a great reference! I'll use it next time I upset someone on the Australia/Pacific forum. Probably later today.

We were living in the mountains 90 km west of Sydney at the time, and although bridges were in short supply locally we had plenty of cliffs. What worried me is that I sometimes suspected the offender of thinking that if Justin did leap the cliff he must know what he's doing....

Leelani

Djkbooks, I asked a simple question, and judging by the responses, some found it interesting. I asked if political views affected your travel destinations, nothing more. If you found it to be a silly question, then you needn't have responded. I see no need for your hostility and incivility as you did not need to reply if you found my topic a waste of time.

Clifton

My parents just said "a bridge". I grew up right at the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, with a dozen other rivers nearby. I had lots of options for lemming-ness, so they covered their bases well.

To the original question: no. Every country, including mine, has issues. Can't correct them at home, so I sure don't figure on correcting everyone else's.

StCirq

No, they don't. I travel to see all kinds of things I can't otherwise see. I guess I have a journalist's approach to travel, in that I want to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of all the world. I don't judge, I just look, take notes, dig into the local culture, and write down my experiences. Most of them are good.

I traveled to Morocco in November 2001. Loads of people, including family and friends, thought I was totally nuts. The government of Morocco isn't our enemy, in fact the opposite, but many U.S. citizens would have considered it such at that time because of the ties between Morocco and numerous terrorists.

But I don't travel on a political level. I travel to see and smell and taste and feel. You can do that in any country at any time, except under truly oppressive circumstances, and under such I would probably choose not to travel because I may be a journalist at heart but I'm not one for real, and I don't want to encounter bombs and guns on a vacation.

World views definitely don't even begin to make a mark on my decisions to travel. It's the PEOPLE I'm interested in meeting, not the governments, for goodness' sake! In Morocco in 2001, I met countless people who apologized to me for their country's assistance in the terrorism effort. I was never once harrassed - as a woman traveling with another woman - and was treated graciously everywhere.

If you're not willing to confront the supposed "enemy," then you're a wuss. The argument about not spending money in a country whose politics you're not comfortable with strikes me as about as dumb as the period when Americans were pouring out their Champagne and French wines and not buying French mineral water. BIG statement - yeah, thanks.

Fine - go only to countries where your political views are shared by the government - that could change in a heartbeat, as witness Spain this spring after the bombings.

Your friend has simply cut off her nose to spite her face. Her loss.

Gardyloo

Is there a line somewhere that you wouldn't cross? If you were a strong believer in some religion, and that religion was being persecuted by the government in a country, would you go anyway? We saw some evidence of anti-semitism being tolerated by the Italian authorities last month, and honestly I'm now going to think twice before going back to Italy in the immediate future.

I hope Fodors doesn't pull this thread, because I think it's extremely travel related, and it really brings up some issues that some - not all - people will find relevant in their travel plans. Is spending your tourist euro/dinar/shekel seen as a political act? In some places some of the locals see it distinctly in that way. If you are unaware of that, time you learned it. In Israel a couple of months ago we had more than one person thank us for "supporting Israel" with our visit in this time of troubles. It really wasn't about that in our minds at all, but it was in theirs.

Some friends who got back from France and Spain last weekend said they perceived anti-American sentiment more than they ever had before, in very many travels to Europe and all over the world. They're going off to Norway for a wedding in a few weeks, and have decided to skip passing through France en route, which they normally would never consider.

It's a valid issue and one that warrants some self-assessment.

martytravels

So ChatNoir, are you going to change your username to something less French-sounding?
The stances of Canada, France and Germany on the war made me appreciate countries I already was quite fond of even more. I've been to Toronto or Montreal at least seven times since the war started.
Dissent is healthy and necessary.

Clifton

marty, the thread is working because people are not forcing their fellow posters to justify their views. Hoping to continue on something unique here for a bit longer by keeping it that way.

Gardyloo, I think you raise a valid question, and I probably come off as a bit apathic in my earlier reply. That's not the case. I do have lines, but I also try to avoid assigning more importance to my small activities than warranted. Even if others believe that they understand my motives, doesn't mean that they do. I have to live with them though, so I suppose I do have lines, that if I were to cross them, would make me feel like part of the "problem". My perception of a problem. Myanmar would be an example that jumps to mind.

For the most part though, I believe that the osmosis of ideas don't transfer at any level through isolation.

Clifton

bad edit. "doesn't transfer"

TopMan

Try your question THIS WAY:

Would you consider not buying a product MADE in a particular country because of that country's opposition to the policies of the US?

I have this funny notion that the sales of BMWs, Mercedez-Benz cars, French-made cheeses, French or German wines, etc., have NOT plummeted in the least...nor will they.

Andrewmac

It has been an interesting thread this one.

Although I question current US foreign policy, it would never stop me from visiting America for the sights, the culture and the people.

Most of us accept that, in the main, countries look after their own interests, politicians usually screw up, and that people generally do their best to rub along together.

Travelling helps us to understand one another and forget the drudgery of work and the demands of others. Long may it continue and don't let politics get in the way of it.

flanneruk

Grandmere:

Your husband's unhappy with France and you went to Holland? Whose contribution to The Noble Cause was what precisely?

Leelani:
I'm puzzled at your respecting your friend's decision. If she wants to limit her holidays to Britain and Australia (if she's going to Spain or Italy she's either ill-informed or a hypocrite), who's suffering? Certainly not the French. And she'd be well advised not to share with any Brits or Aussies the reasons for this bizarre decision. Suffering fools gladly isn't a common trait in either Britain or Australia.

She's cutting off her nose to spite her face. And friends are there to point this out to other friends.

Which is exactly what Canada did.

Egg

I think that lots of people are thinking twice about visiting the US at the moment.
There have been so many horror stories about people's experiences with US immigration.

m_kingdom2

Leelani dear, your friend needs to grow up. The amount of money the French economy is losing because or narrow minded people like her is utterly minimal.

I can understand not travelling due to political reasons which result in unrest in that country e.g. Vietnam (let's not go into the politics of that one!). However, simply not travelling somewhere because the government doesn't share your political views is more than idiotic.

I'm put off travelling to American, no because of their misguided president, his even more misguided polititcs, and his huge mistake in invading Iraq, but because of the new "five hour check-in" at the airport. They're becoming neurotic, and unfortunately, if someone does wish to carry out acts against humanity they'll always slip through the net.

Grow up, see the world don't let politics get in the way - they interfere with you daily life enough!

SiobhanP

France had a choice to make and they decided not to join the war. Every nation is entitled to do this. Why on earth do people get annoyed when other countries don't do what they want them to do...I find this attitude a bit frightening, does anyone else? This fear and anger about people who don't always agree on matters smacks of McCarthyism and I feel we are getting more and more fanatical/obsessive about those who do not join us. Think about it if you were the president of France.....You are far closer to these conflicts in Arab Countries than the U.S, you have a section of your population who are of Arab descent and are working and adding to the country and economy and are citizens with no issues, you do not feel they found sufficient evidence to go in...that's fine with me, how can I be mad at them for not joining a fight they are unsure about....we need to stop blaming others and get on with things...Go to Paris and enjoy!

Neil_Oz

Just in case the gods do pull this thread I'd like to echo the sentiment that it's been a great discussion. It's a pleasure to see it go on so long with civility and humour, and with nary a spluttering ranter in sight. Nor for that matter any querulous complaints that it hasn't been dealing with "travel-related" matters. I'm greatly encouraged by the common sense, courtesy and wit of the contributors to this board. Wouldn't it be great to get together for a few reds and a noisy but good-natured argument?

Flanneruk, thanks for the kind words, but the sad fact is that down here we have enough home-grown idiots to deal with, many of them I'm sorry to say we elected to positions of power. I'm not too sure that we're winning the battle. At any rate, we're not resourced to deal with an influx of imported fools.

ChatNoir

Sue, are you saying the candians are going to throw the bums out of office?
Maybe there is some hope we'll get better anti-terrorism help.

tedgale

In response to Sue and ChatNoir: Yes, it looks like the Liberals are losing the Canadian election -- for reasons that have nothing to do with Iraq. The most recent polling I've seen show Canadians as opposed as ever to the invasion of Iraq -- though with the characteristic Canadian willingness to embrace paradox, they may be about to vote for a party that supported intervention.

mgmargate

YES,I will not return to France or Germany,nor will I visit Canada or Russia until there is a change to more appreciative governments who know the meaning of loyalty and alliance.