Do European politics affect your travel choices?
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:27 PM
#22
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Undoubtedly, more than a few, elle. Shaking their heads <i>and</i> holding their Gallic noses...which, I guess, would tie in with the "Merde!" 
I remember reading about Jospin urging all of his supporters to vote for his rival Chirac. You know that classic Arab saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"!
Le Pen did get almost one out of five votes which, although qualifying for a sound thrashing in my <i>livre</i>, is still a bit scary.
I remember reading about Jospin urging all of his supporters to vote for his rival Chirac. You know that classic Arab saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"!
Le Pen did get almost one out of five votes which, although qualifying for a sound thrashing in my <i>livre</i>, is still a bit scary.
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:32 PM
#24
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Only goverments that violate human rights would I boycott. Currently I would steer clear of myanmar and north korea, possibly some middle eastern and african countries people especially women are treated poorly.
Peronally I would not be surprised if many europeans and others are not going to go to america beacuase of the government. Recent events make the US look so poorly overseas( no WMD, prisoner abuses, lack of funding for our own army). the prisoner abuses is a human rights violation and it is aboslutly disgusting - it makes america look so badly in the eyes of other countries. So many people in the US have worked so hard for the rights of people in China, Myanmar , and other 3rd world countries only to be spit on by the current administration -it makes americans look like the hugest hypocrites
Also last time I was in Europe (may 2003) I felt the Italians had much more disdain for americans than the french. The french were quite friendly
Peronally I would not be surprised if many europeans and others are not going to go to america beacuase of the government. Recent events make the US look so poorly overseas( no WMD, prisoner abuses, lack of funding for our own army). the prisoner abuses is a human rights violation and it is aboslutly disgusting - it makes america look so badly in the eyes of other countries. So many people in the US have worked so hard for the rights of people in China, Myanmar , and other 3rd world countries only to be spit on by the current administration -it makes americans look like the hugest hypocrites
Also last time I was in Europe (may 2003) I felt the Italians had much more disdain for americans than the french. The french were quite friendly
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:36 PM
#25
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><i>Le Pen did get almost one out of five votes which. . . is still a bit scary.
Agreed. But voter turnout was low for the original run-off election. Which is probably to be expected from the moderates, but was somewhat surprising from the left.
I think there's a lesson learned, though. I doubt the left will be quite so apathetic again.
When we were in Languedoc-Roussillon last year, we saw a disturbing amount of pro Le Pen graffiti.
</i>
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:40 PM
#28
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Neal, the attitudes of other Americans will not affect MY travel plans. I'm simply asking Fodorites, American or not, if their choice of travel destination is affected by the way the political winds are blowing.
Elle, I don't know if the situation with Spain will influence my friend's future plans. I will respect whatever decisions she makes....... It is her money, her vacation.
Thanks for all the replies........ very interesting.
Elle, I don't know if the situation with Spain will influence my friend's future plans. I will respect whatever decisions she makes....... It is her money, her vacation.
Thanks for all the replies........ very interesting.
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:51 PM
#29
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I'm actually a big proponent of voting with one's wallet. I won't shop at Wal-Mart or Home Despot, buy anything from Polaroid, do my best to buy cruelty-free and pesticide-free products, look for clothing made in countries where workers are paid a fair wage (do you know how difficult that is?), and do patronize businesses that treat their employees and communities well. It may not make a big difference to these companies, but if enough people did it, think of the difference we could collectively make.
So if your friend's values dictate that they can't go to France, then at least they're being true to their values (plus its one less person for me to compete with for a table at a popular restaurant).
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:54 PM
#31
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European politics do not affect my decision, nor do American politics. However there are some countries in the world where women are forced to wear veils and have few rights. I have no intention of ever visiting such a country until this situation changes. Thank God most of those countries are not of interst to most tourists anyway.
Jun 16th, 2004, 05:59 PM
#32
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Home Depot supports a lot of causes that I oppose; I'll never forgive Polaroid execs for raiding retirees pensions before going into bankruptcy. To me, it's become a tainted brand, no matter who owns it now.
And I did just read something about Bank One the other day. . . aren't they being acquired by someone? It's hard to keep track of who owns what these days.
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:10 PM
#33
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<i>Sorry for the italics. I'm really not leaning to the right, either literally or figuratively.</i>
HaHa...c'est magnifique!
And "Home Despot" So would a guy like Saddam be a Homme Despot?
HaHa...c'est magnifique!
And "Home Despot"
So would a guy like Saddam be a Homme Despot?
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:15 PM
#34
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One of the interesting things along these lines is the current American fascination with things Japanese.
Sixty years ago, they bombed the United States on its own soil. Today we drive Japanese cars, buy Japanese electronics, and sushi and sake are all the range. How long did it take us to forget that pain and embrace Japan?
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:21 PM
#36
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Of course Stardust is right, France and Russia at least didn't act out of altruism - but then, it should now be blindingly obvious to all that the Bush administration's objectives were not as claimed either. The person whose motivation I really have trouble understanding is Tony Blair, whose distinguished career is now imploding because of his support for Bush.
When our kids were small and would try to justify some silly behaviour on the grounds that "Justin did it" we'd ask, "So, if Justin jumped off a cliff you'd follow him, would you?"
Well, none of this is permanent. I think it was that great American president George Washington who said that a nation can have no permanent friends or permanent enemies - only permanent interests.
At the risk of wearing out my welcome, I just came across these words by a fairly successful president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, who these days would probably be seen as a total wimp:
"Now, look, I happen to know a little about leadership ... and I tell you this: you do not lead by hitting people over the head. Any damn fool can do that, but it's usually called 'assault', not 'leadership' ... I'll tell you what leadership is. It's persuasion - and conciliation - and patience. It's long, slow, tough work. That's the only sort of leadership I know or believe in - or will practice."
When our kids were small and would try to justify some silly behaviour on the grounds that "Justin did it" we'd ask, "So, if Justin jumped off a cliff you'd follow him, would you?"
Well, none of this is permanent. I think it was that great American president George Washington who said that a nation can have no permanent friends or permanent enemies - only permanent interests.
At the risk of wearing out my welcome, I just came across these words by a fairly successful president, Dwight D. Eisenhower, who these days would probably be seen as a total wimp:
"Now, look, I happen to know a little about leadership ... and I tell you this: you do not lead by hitting people over the head. Any damn fool can do that, but it's usually called 'assault', not 'leadership' ... I'll tell you what leadership is. It's persuasion - and conciliation - and patience. It's long, slow, tough work. That's the only sort of leadership I know or believe in - or will practice."
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:27 PM
#37
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I'm in a bit of bind on this one. My wife, who was born in the UK when her dad was a grad student there, is an Amglophile, so I'm sure we'll visit. However, I'm reluctant to go to a country that supports the war in Irag.
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:30 PM
#38
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><i>"So, if Justin jumped off a cliff you'd follow him, would you?" </i>
Our version of this momism (on the East Coast of the U.S.) was "So if everybody jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?" I wonder if kids in the west of the U.S. heard "If everybody jumped off the Golden Gate. . . " and kids in the South of France heard "If Jean-Baptiste jumped off the Pont du Gard, would you?"
And Neil, you could never wear out your welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
Jun 16th, 2004, 06:40 PM
#39
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Why even inquire? Then demand that no one get "political", though your "dear friend" excludes destinations based upon "political views".
As mentioned above, locals everywhere you go have little, if anything, to do with international "politics", particularly considering that few residents, if any, all about the world have anything to do with the involvement or perceived politics of their government leaders with international affairs, or even bother to vote, if they have the opportunity.
More important, when choosing where to travel, are: Safety, Air Fares, Exchange Rates, and appeal of the destination, for heavens sake. I cannot imagine that any reasonable person selects a travel/vacation destinations based upon their personal "political views".
Please elaborate on exactly whose "political views"...
I, personally, do not, necessarily, accept the "political views" of any country, it's leaders, as presented by any media organization, any/none of which hardly represents the "political views" of the multitude of ordinary citizens.
I'm just wondering here, do you and/or your "dear friend" avoid traveling to states in the USA, where the electoral votes went to the other candidate in the last election???
Most folks are not even the least bit involved in LOCAL politics. Do you or your "dear friend" determine where you will live based upon your "political views".
I cannot imagine excluding glorious travel destinations based upon assumed/perceived "political views". Life is way too short to worry about such nonsense.
As mentioned above, locals everywhere you go have little, if anything, to do with international "politics", particularly considering that few residents, if any, all about the world have anything to do with the involvement or perceived politics of their government leaders with international affairs, or even bother to vote, if they have the opportunity.
More important, when choosing where to travel, are: Safety, Air Fares, Exchange Rates, and appeal of the destination, for heavens sake. I cannot imagine that any reasonable person selects a travel/vacation destinations based upon their personal "political views".
Please elaborate on exactly whose "political views"...
I, personally, do not, necessarily, accept the "political views" of any country, it's leaders, as presented by any media organization, any/none of which hardly represents the "political views" of the multitude of ordinary citizens.
I'm just wondering here, do you and/or your "dear friend" avoid traveling to states in the USA, where the electoral votes went to the other candidate in the last election???
Most folks are not even the least bit involved in LOCAL politics. Do you or your "dear friend" determine where you will live based upon your "political views".
I cannot imagine excluding glorious travel destinations based upon assumed/perceived "political views". Life is way too short to worry about such nonsense.
