LJ

Well, I am a Canadian and fascinated by this thread...I have read those blow-by-blow itineraries with a mix of admiration and horror. I think we Canucks are the national compromise between the UK/European and the American on many things and this is another.

I see we generally have more vacation time than Americans: 3 weeks per annum is statutory minimum and the longer you stay (or the better you negotiate as you rise in the field) the more you get-currently I have 8 weeksand that is not unusual for folks 8-10 years from retirement, as I am.

I would say we are average travel planners...in fact when I mentioned the gist of this thread up at lunch with colleagues, they, like many on this Board, (me and mine included) were somewhere in the middle.

Item of agreement: flight(s) booked, first night or two's accomodation booked, train travel not booked and not into passes, after that know generally what cities they will see, guidebook in hand, but play it by ear...sometimes with hotel reccos from friends or travel sites like this.

EXCEPT for travel that involves another couple, large family reunion or an event like a honeymoon, twenty-fifth anniversary etc. that seemed to be the norm.

I asked a question here a long time ago about the negative side of NOT planning in advance specifically re: train travel in Italy and never really got an answer.

I'd like to take it further: is there some downside to NOT planning in advance? were you ever put in danger, went hungry, forced to sleep in a car or someother "too high" price to pay? Or is it just fun/satisfying to have that agenda done?

tomassocroccante

LJ, my one craziest experience of "not planning" was actually a flaw in the plan.

A friend and I arrived in St. Martin enroute to St. Barts. Last flight in of the night. Man at immigration asks, "Where are you staying?" We say, in a rented house on St. Barts. "Where are you staying TONIGHT?" he asks with a frown.

Well, our flight into St. Martin arrived just before midnight, and there would be no flight to St. Barts until around 6:00 am. Our plan had been to just hang out at the airport.

"The airport closes in ten minutes, you can't stay here." oops.

Then: "You can't leave the airport unless you have a place to stay tonight." They don't want people camping on the beach, or arriving without a dated return ticket ... We could only wonder what magic trick we could do if we were forced to leave yet required to stay.

He directed us to the tourism desk, where we were given the name of a hotel to go to, told they would have room. (not a reservation) We tell immigration man that we're going there, and he lets us leave the airport.

We take a cab to the hotel in question, and they have no rooms. The cab has left us. Fortunately, someone manages to get another cab on the phone, which is fairly miraculous as the airport has closed and that's where you phone cabs. (Or did in the days before cell phones.)

Now where? Well, I had read about the Casino Royale hotel/resort that seemed to be near the airport. We had our driver take us there, figuring if there were no rooms we could hang out at the casino and eat, etc.

We go to the desk, it's now after 1:00 AM and we plan to catch a 6:00 flight ... a room is $300, or about $75 an hour. They graciously hold our bags for us at the desk and we go to the casino, which is BORING. Then go looking for something to eat. Though there are lots of folks in the bars, etc, the only food available is the ice cream shop, where we enjoy huge sundaes, our first food in many hours.

We are exhausted. While wandering around the grounds, my friend starts chatting with a security guard (I'd have avoided that at all costs.) He suggests that we ask his friend "Jerome", now at the front desk, if we can hang out in the huge, comfortable and empty lobby. So we do, and Jerome says no problem, "But wouldn't you rather have a room?" I say it's too much for a couple of hours.

Ultimately Jerome asks us to make an offer on the room, I say $50, and he gives us a gorgeous beachfront room with two queen beds, where we catch a couple of hours of sleep, get a wake-up call and take showers. Jerome has called a cab, waiting for us at 5:30. Of course out of his $50 cash he probably has to tip the maid to change the room without recording it, etc. Because this is clearly off the books, even down to being sure we would be gone before th shift change. But it was my favorite unscheduled overnight - and a lifesaver, as those few hours of sleep gave us a decent 1st day in St. Barts and a great start to our trip.

cherrybomb

I read a bunch, but my only planning is booking hotels--sometimes more than 1 then I decide when I get there and maybe a restaurant or two if it is Michelin starred or otherwise hot.

I also don't plan on doing anything other than walking around or sitting in cafes--I figure I am on vacation, I don't want to run around. And as much as I make fun of the tour bus at home in NYC, I have learned to embrace it when on holiday--that way I can at least say I saw whatever sight it is that the city is known for.

As others have said, i think most Americans view a trip overseas as a once in a lifetime event due to costs, travel time and lack of vacation. Luckily my husband and I both have 5 and 6 weeks of vacation/year and live on the east coast. For us it is cheaper and faster (considering all the domestic flight delays) to go to Europe than it is to go anywhere else, so we go several times a year, even if for only a 4 or 5 day weekend.

In a similar vein, do Europeans obsess over pickpockets and hiding their belonging in leg safes, money belts and the like when they travel to the US or otherwise.

I am not trying to be snarky--I really am curious.

LJ

Tomas...GREAT story and the stuff that travel adventures are made of...now I know (or at least) assume that you were two young guys and therefore, prehaps might be deemed, more ready for adventure.

But I would like to think that my DH and I would be open for that sort of thing to happen EVEN today. For me, us, I should say, too much planning deprives your trip of that element of intrigue, adventure, serendipity or whatever you want to call it that makes travel wonderful.

BTW, as a result of that "what the heck" attitude to hotel planning, we once spent a night in Umbria in a place where we were clearly the only guests who bothered to pay for a full night...very interesting!

ComfyShoes

Tomasso.., Great story and I will tell my wife I was right as always

tomassocroccante

LJ,
It was actually my closest female friend and I - we were joining other friends at a rented villa on St. Barts, invited at the last minute to take the space of others who were leaving early. The beginning of a my love affair with the Caribbean. And we were around 40 yrs old at the time.

Would love the details on your Umbria adventure! My ex and I arrived at Orvieto by car one time an hour or so before sundown. We had a hotel reservation but had left the directions at home, so we began driving around looking for it. It would turn out to be not in the town at all, of course but down in the outskirts. That didn't stop us from driving up into the thick of a festival, to the scolding glare of a Caribinere. (Of course only registered cars are allowed in the old city at any time, let alone on streets closed for partying and parades.) By asking for directions (in our imperfect Italian) five or six times, we finally found our way - and learned a lot about Orvieto!

LJ

Thanks for the suggestion of Summertime-I hope to rent it this weekend. For the ultimate clash of the "Itinerary Enamored" versus the "Itinerary Allergic", see another Hepburn classic, "Two For The Road".

Zerlina

Two different Hepburns: Summertime is Katharine, Two for the Road is Audrey.

josephina

Don't you think that most of the questions posted by Americans on this European forum are done by those with the intention of sightseeing and that's the reason for all the itineraries? We're talking trip language as opposed to than vacation language.

Sure, if you're a Brit, there's a good chance you're doing Spain for your beach vacation. That's not so likely if you're from US or Canada--the warm beach destrination would more likely be Hawaii, Florida or all-inclusives (the ultimate in never having to plan)in the Carribean or Mexico. I guarantee you some of the most "driven" people on this board can do Beach Chair Potato. In that mode, one starts asking truly important itinerary questions like this:
"Where can I get a good mojito?"

wellididntknowthat

Cheerybomb said

>In a similar vein, do Europeans obsess over pickpockets and hiding their belonging in leg safes, money belts and the like when they travel to the US or otherwise.

I am not trying to be snarky--I really am curious.<

To be honest I'm not really sure. I know I don't but then I'm a city dweller(Glasgow), always feel really comfortable in any city I've been to and only take the same precautions as I would at home.

I'm sure at some point that attitude may come back and haunt me but I also think its partly that confidence that allows me gauge potential risks reasonably well.

I think I'll need to have a look at the US board and see if the same sorts of questions are asked by European travellers. Its possible I'm making a lot of assumptions people from this side of the pond that aren't supportable. Should have thought of that before really.

wellididntknowthat

Hi Josephina

I hear what your saying about the different styles of vacation. Millions of Europeans do exactly the same, two weeks on a beach by the Med chilling. Never been my cup of tea, sand gets everywhere lol!

cherrybomb

>>o be honest I'm not really sure. I know I don't but then I'm a city dweller(Glasgow), always feel really comfortable in any city I've been to and only take the same precautions as I would at home.

I'm sure at some point that attitude may come back and haunt me but I also think its partly that confidence that allows me gauge potential risks reasonably well.<<

I do the same, but see so many threads on pickpockets and money safes and indestructible bags and such that I wonder if this is an American thing, a small city thing or what.

bennyb

For people who don't like to sight-see, but only sit around in cafes people-watching or enjoying food, I've always wondered - what exactly do you do? Do you spend the day wandering from one cafe to the next? Don't you get tired (and risk DVT) by sitting so much?

We don't plan extensively if it's a place we've been to before, but we do not just sit around eating all day. I can do that at home (of course, we live in a metropolitan city with great food and interesting people to watch).

rickmav

I'm a planner, and a Canadian, but thankfully married a man who likes to know that I have a plan, but who encorages and inspires me to put the plan aside for the day, mix up days, take a detour and throw the day out of the window, etc.

We tend to rent self catering cottages, apartments, etc. - and those you have to plan for. We almost always have a rental car which we book ahead. If there are travel days in between cottages we have a few options gleaned from sites like this, but unless it's some place like London, Venice, Paris, etc., we usually don't book. Same goes for trains or buses. And we never book restaurants from home; and hardly ever when we are 'there'. Being hungry and craving some particular food - or - not - never seems to be amenable to planning. I have tons of ideas for sight-seeing, we probably end up doing about a quarter of them.

Although I always plan - I'm hard-wired for it - I have found that how I use the plan depends a lot of who I'm travelling with. My husband, I've mentioned above. My sister-in-law never reads anything ahead of time and simply goes wherever I do. She's so laid back I basically do whatever I want to. She says she trusts me implicitly. It works out for both of us.

My sister is more anal-retentive than I am. She never goes on holiday to rest, she goes to experience everything she possibly can. She still wants me to do a plan, because I've travelled more she has, but since she gets up at 6 am and goes to bed around midnight, even I usually don't plan enough things. She is constantly picking up brochures, interrogating unsuspecting travellers, and cramming five or six more things into the plan. Travelling with her is exhausting, but exhilerating.

With our best friends, I have to have a secret plan. The male of the pair likes to be in charge - and wants to be spontaneous. If I don't object to his ideas, I go with the flow. He's so much fun to be with, that's more important. But if I'm feeling bossed around too much, I excuse myself and do what I'd like to do. After all these years, our friends just shrug their shoulders, explaining it as Mavis's need to have some 'I' time. Sometimes my husband comes with me, but usually he goes with the friends.

And I'm not sure 'planning' is an American phenomenon. I've come across lots of Americans in my travels who didn't have a clue what the local area had to offer. And didn't seem to care.

I've just thought of another justification for planning - it lets me enjoy the trip twice. And if I do a trip report - three times!!!

cherrybomb

>>For people who don't like to sight-see, but only sit around in cafes people-watching or enjoying food, I've always wondered - what exactly do you do? Do you spend the day wandering from one cafe to the next? Don't you get tired (and risk DVT) by sitting so much?<<

people don't get DVT on the beach and they certainly sit around all day!

I am a cafe dweller. I wander around neighborhoods and stop to sit and have a glass or more of wine and read, people watch, chit chat. I certainly don't eat all day long. I also get up later in the day than some and stay out late at night in bars/clubs.

I also look in shops, take pictures, walk around, stop at things that look interesting.

I live in a cosmopolitan city as well, but it isn't the same sitting in an outdoor cafe in NYC as it is in Paris or Copenhagen or wherever. Same goes for an indoor cafe.

I have crowds (of tourists) to wade through just to go anywhere at home--I don't want to do the same on vacation. Likewise, I have museums at my disposal at home--my real goal is to relax, meet new people, see new things, get into another culture, etc.

Just my way of traveling.

GSteed

Interesting! I wonder how many of the obsessive planners of their EU visit do the same with their day to day lives.

tomassocroccante

rickmav, you're right about all the travelers who arrive clueless. I always tell people that the $25 for a good guidebook is like trip insurance of the most obvious sort! It's a great bon-voyage gift for anyone making their first trip abroad.

I've been in Paris with people who really didn't know up from down (is it my fault that I did all the hotel hunting and making of lists of restaurants, etc? ) Even if I were traveling with someone else who had done the planning, I'd want to know something about the neighborhoods and how to find my way here and there.

Here at home in NYC, I also talk with plenty of visitors (from the US and abroad) who seem not to have bothered to look at a map or guidebook, and so are more baffled than need be.

A plan, of course, is not an itinerary. Planning helps us know what's what, and helps us avoid needless backtracking or wasting time and money paying for extra transportation. Because whether you're a sightseer or a cafe-dweller (as opposed to a cave dweller), it's no fun spending hours waiting, or walking the wrong way, or finding yourself on the wrong side of town.

Speaking of cafe-dwelling, bennyby - I definitely land there in the middle: I want to see some of the sights and definitely have some items on my agenda. But I've learned that I'm in a lot better mood if I SIT DOWN for 15-20 minutes out of every 90 or so. (Not to mention the hour+ for lunch during siesta, the most civilized custom of the western world.) The pauses mean I don't wear out, get short-tempered or give up on the bare-bones itinerary I do have. When I miss the breaks ... well, I really miss them. The good thing is, all the walking means the 4 or 5 breaks for coffee or gelato or a glass of beer each day don't add up to much!