Current Paris vacation rental news...
Apr 27th, 2016, 03:17 AM
#41
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Not opening a door to authorities is not what I'd recommend.
As said, they won't throw you out, so you don't risk anything - what you have done is not illegal, the renter is doing illegal things.
By not opening the doo you protect thieves (in white collar, but still thieves).
As said, they won't throw you out, so you don't risk anything - what you have done is not illegal, the renter is doing illegal things.
By not opening the doo you protect thieves (in white collar, but still thieves).
Apr 27th, 2016, 04:39 AM
#42
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Two additional elements in recent developments as first mentioned by kerouac. Mayor Hildago has asked for legislation, currently under consideration in the Sénat, which would:
1. Raise fines for rental law violators from 25,000€ to 100,000€ per occurrence.
2. Prohibit agents such as airbnb, Paris Perfect, and others from listing vacation apartments other than those registered and approved by the city for short term use.
The primary concern of the mayor's task force, now at 25 full time agents, is to close illegal hotels, described by flpab above, where an entity purchases multiple apartments in a building and rents them to vacationers. The task force's objective is to return these units to the normal, residential rental market.
The task force also continues to followup on complaints by disgruntled neighbors, and plans to implement additional enforcement sweeps such as those previously done in the Marais and Latin Quarter.
1. Raise fines for rental law violators from 25,000€ to 100,000€ per occurrence.
2. Prohibit agents such as airbnb, Paris Perfect, and others from listing vacation apartments other than those registered and approved by the city for short term use.
The primary concern of the mayor's task force, now at 25 full time agents, is to close illegal hotels, described by flpab above, where an entity purchases multiple apartments in a building and rents them to vacationers. The task force's objective is to return these units to the normal, residential rental market.
The task force also continues to followup on complaints by disgruntled neighbors, and plans to implement additional enforcement sweeps such as those previously done in the Marais and Latin Quarter.
Apr 27th, 2016, 05:39 AM
#43
The city is now going into high gear. Yesterday it was announced that as of May 1st, it will be illegal to rent holiday apartments to anybody until a permit has been received from city hall.
Obviously, this date will not be respected, but something should be in place very quickly anyway. There certainly will not be a huge backlog of applications since so few of the current owners can qualify.
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/...b_1422145.html
Obviously, this date will not be respected, but something should be in place very quickly anyway. There certainly will not be a huge backlog of applications since so few of the current owners can qualify.
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/...b_1422145.html
Apr 27th, 2016, 06:00 PM
#44
This makes me sad. I have had several of the best vacations of my life in apartments in Paris, and I am grateful to have been able to do this. I just love the convenience, privacy, space, and comfort of the apartments I have rented. I know what it is like to stay in a hotel room and for me, the experience just does not compare. The apart hotel concept seems a poor substitute from my perspective. I'm just glad I have had the experiences I have had while I could have them.
Apr 28th, 2016, 12:25 AM
#46
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Short-term vacation rentals are prohibited in cities which have more than 200,000 residents, unless they comply with the law.
Short-term rentals are necessary for some people - those with work assignments of less than one year, those who have bought property and are waiting for renovation to be completed, people who come for extended medical treatment.
The average tourist does not meet these criteria, and the average tourist got along just fine staying in hotels and apart'hotels before the apartment craze began in 2009.
The average tourist does not need to stay in an apartment in Paris. To do so is the height of selfishness.
The average waiter, salesperson, cook or bus driver certainly do.
But there are no apartments available for long-term tenants.
There are more short-term vacation rentals in the Marais (3eme and 4eme arrondissements) than there are permanent residents.
This means that the people who work in this area are forced to live elsewhere - often a 1 hr commute to the suburbs - so the average tourist can walk across the street for his morning croissant.
Do you see what's wrong with this picture?
Short-term rentals are necessary for some people - those with work assignments of less than one year, those who have bought property and are waiting for renovation to be completed, people who come for extended medical treatment.
The average tourist does not meet these criteria, and the average tourist got along just fine staying in hotels and apart'hotels before the apartment craze began in 2009.
The average tourist does not need to stay in an apartment in Paris. To do so is the height of selfishness.
The average waiter, salesperson, cook or bus driver certainly do.
But there are no apartments available for long-term tenants.
There are more short-term vacation rentals in the Marais (3eme and 4eme arrondissements) than there are permanent residents.
This means that the people who work in this area are forced to live elsewhere - often a 1 hr commute to the suburbs - so the average tourist can walk across the street for his morning croissant.
Do you see what's wrong with this picture?
Apr 28th, 2016, 04:01 AM
#48
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I travel often and I am usually looking for an offer of apartments on Airbnb site. I traveled to Paris with friends and through them I found a great apartment in the center for the price of 20 € per day, which is almost the same price as in the hostel, except that here you have the whole house to yourselves. As for the legality of accommodation I've never had a problem with that and everytime everything was ok, so my advice is just to always travel relaxed and safe. It's more needed to be careful on the steets due to current dangerous happening that are taking place throughout the world every day. As for the mentioned change in cutting the possibility for renting freely the apartment in Paris in the future is the new information for me that really makes me sad because that changes a lot the future planned trips for most of the people.
Apr 28th, 2016, 04:38 AM
#51
The city has actually been buying up some apartment buildings and disused office spaces to convert them into social housing. This is of course very expensive but is considered essential to maintain a mixture of high, medium and low income residents wherever possible instead of allowing the ghettoization of both the rich and poor in completely separate areas.
One of the most amazing examples of how far the city is willing to go are the two curved buildings surrounding the Bourse du Commerce (soon to be the Pinault museum) on rue du Louvre. These were very expensive office buildings but the city bought them and converted them into subsidized apartments to try to stem the depopulation of the area.
One of the most amazing examples of how far the city is willing to go are the two curved buildings surrounding the Bourse du Commerce (soon to be the Pinault museum) on rue du Louvre. These were very expensive office buildings but the city bought them and converted them into subsidized apartments to try to stem the depopulation of the area.
Apr 28th, 2016, 04:46 AM
#52
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Benston : a shortcut of what you wrote is : I'm sad that because I'll be obliged to follow the law, I won't be able to stay in an appartment.
Tourists want to live like a local ? There will be no more locals living in Paris !!!
Are you sad that all my colleagues under 30 commute daily at least one hour per trip, because as expressed, they cannot afford to pay an appartment in Paris intra muros ?
Can you live several years with 2 kids in a 40 m2 appartment for about HALF A MILLION dollars ? Or you prefer to pay ONE million dollars to have a little bit more room ?
Or you buy a house - say - one hour away from Paris for 250 000 € ? Strangely my young colleagues buy a house away from Paris. And they commute.
Tourists want to live like a local ? There will be no more locals living in Paris !!!
Are you sad that all my colleagues under 30 commute daily at least one hour per trip, because as expressed, they cannot afford to pay an appartment in Paris intra muros ?
Can you live several years with 2 kids in a 40 m2 appartment for about HALF A MILLION dollars ? Or you prefer to pay ONE million dollars to have a little bit more room ?
Or you buy a house - say - one hour away from Paris for 250 000 € ? Strangely my young colleagues buy a house away from Paris. And they commute.
Apr 28th, 2016, 05:04 AM
#53
"The average tourist does not need to stay in an apartment in Paris. To do so is the height of selfishness."
Wow.
Vacations are not about needs, they are about wants. Many people are accustomed to enjoying vacation rentals when they go away, whether it is to Paris or to Florida or to Cape Cod. Are they all manifesting the height of selfishness? Or just the ones who go to Paris?
"the average tourist got along just fine staying in hotels and apart'hotels before the apartment craze began in 2009."
Many people have enjoyed renting vacation apartments long before 2009, myself included.
I am not weighing in on the desirability of eliminating vacation rentals from Paris, and I do see the points raised by the issue, including lack of affordable housing and the need to keep Paris from becoming inhabited by tourists to the detriment of local working people.
I am just saying it makes me sad.
The attempt to demonize the vacationer is as misguided as the attempt to convince the vacationer that he or she doesn't really want something that has worked for them in Paris in the past and in other places to this day.
I can be convinced that the law is necessary, but I will not be convinced by arguments that I wouldn't like vacation rentals better than hotels or that I am a selfish jerk for feeling this way. Such arguments work against acceptance of the new enforcement policies and alienate the very people you are hoping to convince.
Wow.
Vacations are not about needs, they are about wants. Many people are accustomed to enjoying vacation rentals when they go away, whether it is to Paris or to Florida or to Cape Cod. Are they all manifesting the height of selfishness? Or just the ones who go to Paris?
"the average tourist got along just fine staying in hotels and apart'hotels before the apartment craze began in 2009."
Many people have enjoyed renting vacation apartments long before 2009, myself included.
I am not weighing in on the desirability of eliminating vacation rentals from Paris, and I do see the points raised by the issue, including lack of affordable housing and the need to keep Paris from becoming inhabited by tourists to the detriment of local working people.
I am just saying it makes me sad.
The attempt to demonize the vacationer is as misguided as the attempt to convince the vacationer that he or she doesn't really want something that has worked for them in Paris in the past and in other places to this day.
I can be convinced that the law is necessary, but I will not be convinced by arguments that I wouldn't like vacation rentals better than hotels or that I am a selfish jerk for feeling this way. Such arguments work against acceptance of the new enforcement policies and alienate the very people you are hoping to convince.
Apr 28th, 2016, 09:30 AM
#56
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And nobody seems to remember that there is agigantic tax evasoin with appartment rentals : not legal, so not declared, so all the money goes as 'black'.
I did the calculation - not complicated and we talk several hundreds of millions of euros of noncollected taxes for Paris alone - per year.
(Say 50 000 illegal rentals (some say 200 000). Say 100 € per night. Say 300 nights a year -> VERY HUGE.
Huge/3 (rough estimation of tax rate, probably more actually) -> HUGE tex evasion.)
I did the calculation - not complicated and we talk several hundreds of millions of euros of noncollected taxes for Paris alone - per year.
(Say 50 000 illegal rentals (some say 200 000). Say 100 € per night. Say 300 nights a year -> VERY HUGE.
Huge/3 (rough estimation of tax rate, probably more actually) -> HUGE tex evasion.)
Apr 28th, 2016, 09:47 AM
#58
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I hear and understand the point of the Paris authorities - having central Paris be only occupied by tourists isn't a Paris we would want to visit. Also tax evasion is a huge issue especially with most municipalities strapped for cash. I just wonder if there couldn't be a middle ground rather than all or nothing. After all the waiter who will now be able to afford to live in the Marais also makes his living off of tourists. There are a finite number of hotel rooms for the number of tourists who want to visit Paris. We will continue to visit Paris but probably as a night or two rather than a week or more.
Apr 28th, 2016, 11:45 AM
#59
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The number of tourists is increasing every year in Paris, new hotels are being built and former office buildings are being re-purposed to accommodate them. There will never be a lack of tourists in major cities such as Paris, Berlin, London, etc. The problem is that the rental situation exploded world-wide in 2009, and these cities are finding it very difficult to control this issue, including demands from citizens who need housing.
Nobody minded very much before 2009, when there were very few people renting out their apartments in Paris - and the law was rarely enforced until that date. But during the financial crisis of that period, foreign investors bought up an immense amount of property to cash in on this growing trend.
Now, the people who live in Paris do mind, because there are far too many visitors staying in residential apartments where they do not belong, and where the residents must deal with absentee owners regarding noise and damage issues. Many people do not realize the scope of this issue, and reminding them that their actions are indeed selfish is important - whether or not they choose to agree and whether or not it makes people long for the good old days. It was fun while it lasted, but it's over now - and this will not be just in Paris.
The City of Paris is following Berlin's and Munich's lead in taking stronger action against all listing sites (AirBnB, VRBO, TA, etc), all agencies and all independent owners who use the internet to advertise their property. This will include collecting a mandatory nightly room tax, which will provide a paper trail for the City to follow and make it easier to investigate the property. If the property owner continues to rent illegally, fines have been quadrupled on a per diem basis, which will make it unfeasible for the owner to continue renting and which will lead to last-minute cancellation headaches for clients. There are currently many "turn-key, furnished rentals" available for sale, and many more will likely follow, since owners can't or won't find it convenient to conform to the law. One of the main issues is tax evasion - and the renter who agrees to pay all or a portion of the rental fee in cash is contributing to tax fraud.
If the property owner agrees to comply with the law - which involves constructing new property of the same size as the rental units somewhere in Paris, as well as paying commercial tax rates and meeting other criteria - he will be allowed to register on the City's future list of legal apartment rentals (no such list exists at the present time). Obviously, since construction and agreeing to change to a higher tax rate is prohibitively expensive, this will not happen overnight - and the Mayor's office expects that there will be a very short list of legal rentals available.
Rent controls were instituted a couple of years ago (based on the number of sq meters and the arrondissement), so waiters, salespeople etc can absolutely afford to pay rent in Paris and are used to having roommates - the trouble is finding an apartment. When vacation rentals charge an average of 4 times the legal monthly rent, the owner profits, the City loses undeclared tax revenue and only tourists can afford to stay there.
These are the current facts about the rental issue in Paris.
Nobody minded very much before 2009, when there were very few people renting out their apartments in Paris - and the law was rarely enforced until that date. But during the financial crisis of that period, foreign investors bought up an immense amount of property to cash in on this growing trend.
Now, the people who live in Paris do mind, because there are far too many visitors staying in residential apartments where they do not belong, and where the residents must deal with absentee owners regarding noise and damage issues. Many people do not realize the scope of this issue, and reminding them that their actions are indeed selfish is important - whether or not they choose to agree and whether or not it makes people long for the good old days. It was fun while it lasted, but it's over now - and this will not be just in Paris.
The City of Paris is following Berlin's and Munich's lead in taking stronger action against all listing sites (AirBnB, VRBO, TA, etc), all agencies and all independent owners who use the internet to advertise their property. This will include collecting a mandatory nightly room tax, which will provide a paper trail for the City to follow and make it easier to investigate the property. If the property owner continues to rent illegally, fines have been quadrupled on a per diem basis, which will make it unfeasible for the owner to continue renting and which will lead to last-minute cancellation headaches for clients. There are currently many "turn-key, furnished rentals" available for sale, and many more will likely follow, since owners can't or won't find it convenient to conform to the law. One of the main issues is tax evasion - and the renter who agrees to pay all or a portion of the rental fee in cash is contributing to tax fraud.
If the property owner agrees to comply with the law - which involves constructing new property of the same size as the rental units somewhere in Paris, as well as paying commercial tax rates and meeting other criteria - he will be allowed to register on the City's future list of legal apartment rentals (no such list exists at the present time). Obviously, since construction and agreeing to change to a higher tax rate is prohibitively expensive, this will not happen overnight - and the Mayor's office expects that there will be a very short list of legal rentals available.
Rent controls were instituted a couple of years ago (based on the number of sq meters and the arrondissement), so waiters, salespeople etc can absolutely afford to pay rent in Paris and are used to having roommates - the trouble is finding an apartment. When vacation rentals charge an average of 4 times the legal monthly rent, the owner profits, the City loses undeclared tax revenue and only tourists can afford to stay there.
These are the current facts about the rental issue in Paris.
Apr 28th, 2016, 01:01 PM
#60
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The majority of vacation renters in Paris are not at all aware of the legality of their rentals.. they rent from glossy websites with professional sounding companines.
So.. calling them selfish is rude and aggressive. Name calling strangers who are only trying to enjoy their holidays.
I DO understand the issue. .but it has NOTHING to do with the renters..
Better to spew your disdain and venom on the owners of these rentals. not the unwary vacationers. I really think you need to apologize.
I think its arrogant to assume most tourist frequent travel forums.. most do not in fact( honestly out of all my friends ,, only one of them ever even visitsa travel forum.. and its not this one) .. they often just google "vacation rentals in Paris"..
Ps I am renting again this spring.. and yup .. I know all about the issues. frankly .. I am NOT that fond of rentals. I PREFER hotels( even though the places we have rented have always been nice) .. I miss having maid service. and clean towels each day. hubby is the one that likes apartments.. because he likes a balcony to smoke on I think..
I will be quite happy to stay in a hotel next time.. I stayed in one last summer when I visited without him.. so as this crackdown continues it actually makes me happy , since next trip I will just say.. no.. the risk is too great.
There are plenty of inexpensive hotels with ac and small fridges ,all I need, I dont need a lot of room to dress and sleep and I am sorry I think the living like a local mantra is silly.. you are NOT living like a local even if you boil your own egg in the morning.
So.. I will be keeping my eye on situation an fingers crossed I can stay in a hotel next year.
So.. calling them selfish is rude and aggressive. Name calling strangers who are only trying to enjoy their holidays.
I DO understand the issue. .but it has NOTHING to do with the renters..
Better to spew your disdain and venom on the owners of these rentals. not the unwary vacationers. I really think you need to apologize.
I think its arrogant to assume most tourist frequent travel forums.. most do not in fact( honestly out of all my friends ,, only one of them ever even visitsa travel forum.. and its not this one) .. they often just google "vacation rentals in Paris"..
Ps I am renting again this spring.. and yup .. I know all about the issues. frankly .. I am NOT that fond of rentals. I PREFER hotels( even though the places we have rented have always been nice) .. I miss having maid service. and clean towels each day. hubby is the one that likes apartments.. because he likes a balcony to smoke on I think..
I will be quite happy to stay in a hotel next time.. I stayed in one last summer when I visited without him.. so as this crackdown continues it actually makes me happy , since next trip I will just say.. no.. the risk is too great.
There are plenty of inexpensive hotels with ac and small fridges ,all I need, I dont need a lot of room to dress and sleep and I am sorry I think the living like a local mantra is silly.. you are NOT living like a local even if you boil your own egg in the morning.
So.. I will be keeping my eye on situation an fingers crossed I can stay in a hotel next year.
