on expatica, check this out, talk about tough cookies!<BR><BR>Dear Readers: <BR>A few weeks ago, in response to continued illegal activities on our forums, we posted a notice for all our readers. At the same time, we took steps to stop the most serious abusers from using our forum, including notifying their employers of their activities. This has been met with some success, and we hope you've noticed that some of the worst offenders are, for the moment, gone. Others are being investigated by their employers and the police, and will be acted upon when sufficient evidence is collected. <BR><BR>We would very much like to keep these forums open, as we believe in the necessity of free speech in a democratic society. The level of abuse, however, has made it difficult to do so. <BR><BR>We do not monitor the forums for two reasons. The first is that we simply do not have the personnel to monitor over 1,000 posts per day. The second is that a monitoring policy that satisfies everyone is impossible. We would quickly be accused of censorship by some and laxity by others; it's a no-win situation. Volunteer monitors must be trained and managed, and from the experience of other sites, they generate an entirely new set of issues. <BR><BR>Almost every method of online identification is flawed and can easily be circumvented. The solution we have come up with — the only one which offers us a way to catch the worst offenders — is to charge a nominal fee for using the forums, thereby collecting credit card details which include a real name. In this way, we would be able to quickly remove those posting offensive comments. <BR><BR>We understand the intrusiveness of this solution, and therefore believe it appropriate to ask for our readers' opinions before making a final decision. You can help us by answering the following voting question: <BR><BR>Which of the following do you agree with?<BR><BR>** I support Expatica charging EUR 1.00 for unlimited forum use. This will allow Expatica to quickly track down abusive posters and remove them from the system by referring to the credit card details when necessary. (The fee will be waived for Expatica Passport members).<BR><BR>** I think the forums should stay the way they are, open and unmoderated. <BR><BR><BR><BR>We will publish the results of this poll and report back on our progress. Thank you for helping us keep our forums a lively and intelligent place for open discussion. <BR><BR>The Expatica Team <BR><BR>**********<BR><BR>so folks, what do you think of this?

I vote for open and unmoderated.

Open forum please. All the offensive posts I have seen have always been pillioried by the right thinking people. <BR><BR>Perhaps it is a good way to let these peple know that they are not the mainstream and their views are warped. Maybe all the 'real users' of this forum can band together for the common good and act as moderators.

and how does that work? If they cannot monitor all the messages is it easy to monitor all the email addresses before they are posted? I'm not being funny by the way, it's a serious question.

The only way to deal with these idiots is to ignore the poster so it sinks fast, but I admit, I find it hard sometimes to resist.

I agree w/Mimiosa. You see the offensive posting, get angry, and then reply. The good thing about that is, you said what you want; the bad thing is the post gets sent to the top again. Maybe just reply in a separate posting?<BR><BR>

A few years ago I regularly visited another forum which was often hit by teenage spammers or really vile posts. Using a variety of on-line tools they did manage to contact employers/parents etc and the worst of it stopped. In fact there was one arrest for a personal threat in a post. That was when I first learned that most on-line activity could be traced even without registration.<BR><BR>The host company eventually decided to go with registration and within a year the site's traffic had fallen 60%. In the end the host pulled the plug altogether.<BR><BR>BTW - the core members re-grouped on a free self-run forum and became a nice little community

Why is charging a fee the only alternative to an open forum? Why isn't registration still an option?

Re ignoring the offensive posts: these posters are writing provocative material for the very purpose of yanking our chains, and by our responses, we do exactly what they want. Their "enjoyment" comes from reading our indignant replies; why can't we learn, however tempting it is to retort angrily, to just let the post drop to the bottom? Do we want to give over that much power to these people?

I don't think it's about charging a feee - the nominal fee allows them to get credit card info - which verifies a true identity, rather than someone making up names for themselves.<BR><BR>using simple registration, someone could make up three names - one to be 'nice', one to be 'nasty', and one to be.. whatever.

by simple I meant, no verification required.<BR><BR>Sue - good point. what people SHOULD do is reply to the initial question and ignore the nasty one entirely. I've seen it happen - the post quickly gets back to normal.

Agree with many of the suggestions here such as "ignore the post "or "answer the question seriously and not the nasty part of it."<BR>I think things are getting better lately here at Fodor's and is as a result of our ignoring these outrageous and incendiary posters.<BR>There was a time during this year however when things were really getting out of hand and I, like many others, started to seek out others places or boycott altogether.<BR>Maybe I'm just naive but I really do believe that if we don't allow ourselves to get angry at what we all know to be "chain-yankers" or "troll posts" and don't reposnd- that these folk will go away. At least I hope so.<BR>Have a terrific weekend!

What really surprises me is people respond to the terrible posts..they write 'troll" and say to ignore. Don't they realize that this brings the topic to the top??? Next time there is an abusive topic, we should all IGNORE it and not be tempted to reply. That is the only way to get rid of these posters. Agreed?

I vote for registration. would love to see who Inky really is.<BR><BR>

topping<BR>

first off, charging a fee no matter how small does nothing more than give extra money to the people who run the site to do something that we the users shouldn't be so worried about. i am sure there are other methods that would give the same results without the users needing to pay for it. as for the posts themselves...who cares. just ignore it. people should have the right to voice their opinions if they wish. if you disagree with them and you want to reply, then go ahead...you have have that same right. we shouldn't silence people just because they have a view that is unpopular or creates a little controversy. controversies can be good too, they make people think. if you see a post that offends you and you don't wish to reply, ignore it. nobody is making you click on the link to see what all has been said. and how long does it take to scroll past one that you don't want to see anyway? follow the example of the US. in france, there is a book out telling how the 9/11 incidents weren't really terrorists, but the US government itself. the US's response to such a claim? it is too stupid to even respond to. also note that the book is going to be released in the US soon and the government will in no way stop it. everyone has a right to say what they want, and you have the right to decide if you want to listen/read. my advice to those that don't like it, just scroll on past and ignore it, or just think to yourself that the person posting is just an idiot and doesn't even deserve a response.

I wonder if "anon" was looking to gain something from posting this "announcement" about expatica.com - - I never heard of the site before, but it does look interesting. For a forum that gets "over 1000 posts per day", I can't actually find the forum. Perhaps you have to register and join to find it? Or maybe I was too superficial in looking over the site. It pops up a big "buy this" (the Expatica passport) when you first go there, so that was a big turn-off.<BR><BR>But there are interesting articles - - including this one about the furor RyanAir is creating with its low fares to France:<BR><BR>http://www.expatica.com/france.asp?pad=287,299,&item_id=23170<BR><BR>Tell us who you are, "anon"? An agent working for expatica? I assume that you would not favor registration and "real" identification with your credit card?<BR><BR>I still strongly favor people standing up, identifying themselves, and if necessary, yes - - paying for the privilege for stomping out the anonymous cowards.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Like Rex, I smelt a rat reading the initial posting. Avoid.

upping<BR>