cigalechanta

sorry, hate to be a purist but ..café au lait is only coffe and hot milk. like vodka with orange juice, it becomes a mimosa, so lets say you had another drink.

levon

oj + champagne = mimosa

oj + vodka = screwdriver

SydneySteve

As an Australian living in a very multi-cultural environment, I think it is always necessary to accept that what Americans generally favour is not what the rest of the Western World prefers. That's OK though. the corn industry lobby is very powerful in the US and all that powdered non-dairy creamer is for a valid industrial rather than culinary reason. There are many roasters of coffee in this world and there are many processes used. The most well known roasters of packaged product in Europe are Italian based or owned and the espresso machine predominates, as it does here in Australia. It is easy for us to knock the Icons like Starbucks who tend to roast, grind and use an espresso machine differently, but American's are comforted by the psycology it seems. It is very difficult therefore to recommend coffee to an American audience generally.

I have had many cups of coffee in Paris and the one I recommend the most is to go to the basement floor of Galleries Lafayette and have a capuccino made with a full(highly but not caramelised)- roasted genuine Blue Mountain beans. You pay extra for this experience of course.

SiobhanP

In my opinion european coffe is stronger and brewed in different ways. I never saw a cafetiere (SP) (The push down on the lid glass pot)until I lived over here. It iis a stronger coffee in my opinion.

Americano = 1 shopt espresso with hot water to make a normal sized cup.

Latte = I thopught to be half coffee and 1/2 milk

Capuccino's in Ireland are more like milky coffee with foam. It should be 1 shot espresso with foam and a small bit of hot milk.

Time for my coffee break at work!

BTilke

I only drink cafe creme in Paris because straight espresso is just too strong for me. But whether cafe creme is the equivalent of a capuccino, cafe latte or something else varies from cafe to cafe. Sometimes I'm offered milk on the side, usually not. A grand cafe creme seems more like a latte, a small more like a cappuccino. But there are plenty of cafes that only serve one size of cafe creme, which is middling, neither large nor small.
On my last business trip to Paris, when I was saving receipts, I ordered a cafe creme, but the receipt said cappuccino (I think they had an Italian cash register system).
It's true that cafe creme is considered more or less a breakfast drink. But since I can't drink espresso, I sometimes deliberately make the faux pas of ordering it after a meal. However, I won't do that in Italy. (And in Belgium, nobody cares, order it whenever you want.)

mdtravel

Didn't mean to start the 'coffee war or words' here folks. I appreciate that what I'm accustomed to is not available, but making value judgements isn't really appropriate either...different tastes in different parts of the world. My own country is diverse enough that I can't eat what locals consider to be the standard food in some areas. I'm from the midwest originally, for example, and seafood just isn't something I like. I intend to try as many coffees as possible in Paris, but I just wanted some reference point. To some degree, there is some similarity...there's only so much you can do with coffee afterall. Perhaps I should have asked about beers! Maybe not, since I prefer Belgian beers over American or Australian pilsner, or the thick stouts of the UK.

Thanks again.

tom42

Steve - I can appreciate that you live in a "multi-cultural environment." Fortunately, so do I - the U.S. is, after all, one of the most multi-cultural countries in the world. Given that, your generalization that what Americans generally favour is not what the rest of the Western world prefers seems to be a bit of an overstatement. There are many different regions in the US and many different ethnic groups. As an American, I can assure you that you will find that there is no one American like or dislike when it comes to coffee or just about anything else. For example, you seem to imply that Americans like non-dairy creamer. Speaking for myself (and everyone else I know), I do not purchase, ask for, or use non-dairy creamer.

Sorry about the rant, which I usually do not engage in, but Steve's post irked me (mainly because if an American made such sweeping generalizations about Europeans, he or she would rightly be lambasted).

ChatNoir

tom42, the double standard you speak of is just an unfortunate fact of life. Even you objecting to it runs the risk of being called too sensitive and overly defensive.

But I had to grin upon seeing it written that "I think it is always necessary to accept that what Americans generally favour is not what the rest of the Western World prefers'

Gosh, I guess we don't export a single blessed thing to the western world.

ira

>...accept that what Americans generally favour is not what the rest of the Western World prefers.<

Does that include MacDonald's?

ggnga

Thanks for the tip about the Blue Mountain coffee. I will definitely try it on my upcoming trip.

The BEST cup of coffee I ever had, Italy and France included, was Blue Mountain served to me in Jamacia as an enticement to buy something. Of couse I bought bags of coffee there and have bought Blue Mountain at Harrods and places here. Never have I had it turn out that good.

I really prefer coffee with cream but if the only option is non dairy..I pass.
My favourite coffee at home is Columbian made with my coffee press bought at the market in St. Remy and, oh horror to "good form", canned "Pet" milk. Off brands of canned milk are not the same. As a child my grandfather drank his coffee like that aand I picked it up.

I bought an African coffee from the vendor at St. Remy market that was really good. I will look for him again this trip. I am going now to make a fresh cup. My favourite lazy morning is coffee and Fodors. Have a good weekend.

BTilke

"all that powdered non dairy creamer"? In all my adult years back in the U.S., nobody EVER served me nondairy creamer in a restaurant or home. It's available, but you have to ask for it. And please, my husband lived in Australia, the average Aussie is no more sophisticated than the average American. And I bet there are plenty of Aussies owning stock in Starbucks--or wishing they did!
Starbucks is not the only name in the U.S. coffee game, just as Aussies aren't all standing around waiting for shrimps to barbie. There are many high quality coffee roasters in the U.S.
Sydney Steve, take a trip to Vienna and see how crowded the Starbucks is--with AUSTRIANS.

BlueSwimmer

I was in Paris in January when Starbucks first opened their doors. The Herald Tribune ran an interesting article about the French chain Columbus Coffee. Apparently, Starbucks tried to get into France a few years ago and instead a group of French investors opened Columbus Coffee to "head them off at the pass."

The storefront, the logo, the products, the ordering method, etc. are all very similar to Starbucks, i.e. counter service and no charm. I read this about the place;I didn't go there personally, but I did see one in the Marais. Anyway, they have yet to turn a profit, but Americans on Starbucks withdrawal might want to check them out.
Although why anyone would waste even one coffee-drinking experience during your vacation on psuedo-Starbucks, I don't know!

I love the little cookies or dark chocolate tabs you get with your espresso after dinner in many restaurants there, and the sugar cubes or tube-shaped packets of regular sugar.

Mmmm.... This thread is making my lousy work-provided coffee taste worse than usual.

elle

A few points of clarification (I hope) from a former barrista (although it's been a long time and I may have the latte/cappacino thing mixed up)

One of the primary differences between coffee drinks in the US and Paris is in the method of preparation--most coffee in the US <i>brewed</i>, whereas most (but not all) coffee in France is made in an espresso-style machine which uses intense steam pressure to extract the flavor from the beans. This applies to your basic &quot;coffee&quot; in the US; coffee drinks should always be prepared with espresso made in a true espresso machine. (I said &quot;should&quot; not &quot;are&quot;.)

There is also a vast difference between the blends and roasts used. Europeans--not just the French but Italians and Austrians, too--tend to use a darker roast.

In France, a cafe noir is generally a double espresso prepared with a non-espresso filter (a #3, as opposed to a #1).

I don't drink cafe creme, but my husband does and he feels that the closest equivalent that he can find in America is a macchiato.

Now, reaching back to my barrista days--a cappucino generally has a greater ratio of foam to milk (plus it has cinnamon), whereas a latte has a greater proportion of milk and less foam. Cafe au Lait is generally milk with a little coffee.

One of the discrepencies I've noticed in France is that if you take your breakfast at a small hotel or chambres d'hotes, the proprietor may not have an espresso-style machine and therefore your coffee will be prepared in a French press or other brewing-type machine and will be much closer to what you would get in America than it is to what would be served in <i>un veritable cafe</i> in Paris.

rex

&lt;&lt;&quot;all that powdered non dairy creamer&quot;? In all my adult years back in the U.S., nobody EVER served me nondairy creamer in a restaurant or home.&gt;&gt;

Oh, then you haven't been &quot;everywhere&quot; in the US. It's provided by the coffee in at least half of the gas stations and truck stops where I often stop for coffee on the interstates (I still drive to Ohio and to western Kentucky a lot from my home in southern Indiana)

And mother-in-law - - love her dearly that I do - - cannot be persuaded that ANYthing liquid is as good as the coffeemate which is a staple to her. Worst of all, she has 29 grandchildren convinced that there is nothing as good as Grandma's macaroni and cheese - - recipe? macaroni, Velveeta, coffeemate and Tabasco.

Don't ask me the proportions. Would it really matter?

Best wishes,

Rex

LynFrance

Interesting,Elle. I recently heard a representative of the US coffee industry interviewed on a daily food talk-radio program we have here in NY.

He explained that the reason that coffee in America is frequently bitter is that, in fact,coffee is roasted longer and darker for US consumption than for European consumption. Just the reverse of what I had always believed! Which explains part of why I love coffee in Paris and hate it in NY.

The &quot;French Roast&quot; coffee that I keep trying here would not be acceptable to the French....too dark...too bitter.
I've always wondered why it is not acceptable to me either!

SydneySteve

Yeah there is about one or maybe two places in Little Italy that serve what I know to be coffee and I will give credit to Dean and DeLucca at Rockefeller plaza also for trying. Pity about the practice of dusting cinammon on cappuccinos though !

SydneySteve

Oh and to the disgruntled American National above. I think it would be rather silly to compare levels of sophistication between the inhabitants of our respective countries. Our cultures are different and the relativity of our cultures tends to vary with US region compared. I visit the US at least 6 times a year, have worked for major US corporations for more than 10 years of my career path and I used to live in New York for 3 years. I bought my first espresso machine from Zabars in 1981. I would be delighted to invest in Starbucks and quite understand its popularity within the US culture - as I say above that is OK. I think it is fair to say that many Americans are comforted by Icons whereas here I think we try to avoid icons and seek to maintain our independence of choice. There is more a search for education on subjects like coffee and a desire to be constructively critical where possible so as to lift the level of the game. I also think it is fair to say that there are many things I love about the USA but alas, and as a generalisation, coffee is not one of them. I also hate non-dairy creamer, small capuccinos that are mega elsewhere in the Western World, a general lack of crema production because of poor grinding settings, cinammon sprinkled on coffee, multiple infused flavours using the Swiss flavour infusion process and greasy donuts. As for Paris I want you all to try the Blue Mountain bean capuccino or latte if you prefer, from Galleries Lafeyette. Oh yes I have tried Seattle, Gloria J's and all the rest. I did have a good cap in Boston in an Italian Restaurant last month and thank the young lady at St Louis Bakery who allowed me to use her espresso machine to make my own. I actually found some full cream milk and got to adjust the grinder to actually produce crema.

gracieb

I DO know (from experience) how to offend in Paris. Ask a waiter three blocks from Starbucks where the Starbucks is? The response was &quot;Oh, is there a Starbuck's in Paris?&quot;. I don't drink coffee so can't weigh in on this thread...but the waiter wasn't helpful to me in finding the &quot;Paris Starbucks&quot; mug I wanted to return to buy for a souvenir for a friend!

mdtravel

We did make a run to Starbucks in Paris...it was the best latte of the trip. I'd have been fine if we could have got some flavored coffee or caps, but that's something you can't get at most cafes.

edovre

In the final analysis, I think we have to abandon sensitivity and just accept that coffee drinks are something that the US does better than France. There - isn't that liberating? We can still give it up to the French for their superiority in other arenas(wine, food, art, bicycling, etc.). Whew, now I feel better having said that.
Erik