Sue_xx_yy

When my mother turned 18, my grandparents promised she could travel, alone, from their home in southern England to a French summer school in Besancon, in eastern France. She would, of course, go by train and ferry, air travel not being a common method of transport at the time.

At the last minute, on the basis of nothing more than an educated guess, my grandfather said, firmly but absolutely: no, dear, you can't go.

My mother was terribly, terribly disappointed. She argued that she was old enough to take care of herself. She suggested my grandfather was being unduly cautious, given that various experts had insisted that there was nothing to worry about.

My mother turned 18 in March,1939; the trip had been set for July, 1939.

We, of course, have the benefit of hindsight: Two months after the proposed trip Germany invaded Poland; by the following June, to the shock of the world, the Nazis were marching down the Champs-Elysees.

But in June 1939, many of my mother's friends parents' were convinced my grandfather was overreacting.

The balancing act parents must perform with teenagers - well, it seems some things don't change.

Statia

As far as chipping in on family activities after a certain age, I have to agree somewhat.

As soon as I turned 18, I started paying rent at my mother's house, as well as all my own bills. It was not necessarily at her insistence, but rather my own choice, since I felt that I could be out on my own by then. Thank goodness I was in a situation where I could stay home and chip in while attending college.

It worked out really great since it gave me more freedom, as well as taught me financial values. I wouldn't have changed a thing.

kismetchimera

When I was 16 years old I never saw myself as a child, but as a young woman, capable to make my own decisions.
It was also the year that I went to France by myself, to visit my cousin in Avignon,the first of many other trips there later on..

My parents loved me a lots, but they knew that I would never break the trust that they had on me.

Surfergirl

I tend to disagree with this whole hypothesis. It's our money and our decision what to do with it. Besides, I love the planning part of a trip, and my husband and son have little input other than a consensus on destination. I think they'd hate to take away my joy in doing that. To use your logic, since my husband does nothing other than pack his bags and try to learn a little of the language, I guess we can throw my husband into the "infantile" category. I don't think so!

As for our now 14 year old, he IS learning. He checks out the foreign money and calculates the difference between the cost of an item in the U.S. plus tax vs. an item in a country with VAT included. Because he loves languages and is fluent in Spanish, he picks up other languages easily. He figures out a menu and orders on his own. He experiences new people and new cultures, he tries new foods, and sees things that we grown ups tend to look past. Sure, if we're returning to a destination that he's been to in the past (say, Paris), you can be sure he will insist that we return to certain places that he has enjoyed in the past.

In other words, he learns enough just going and experiencing what this world has to offer; why should I saddle him with the little details that I enjoy so much? And, frankly, do I really want to hand over my credit card so he can make reservations on my behalf, even if he was allowed to do that? I think not!

Tat

My 2 cents is that
who wants 18 y/old to plan OUR vacation ?
They suppose to quietly tag along and be happy and thankfull for having such parents who show them world.
And odcourse without admitting it we are being such a good parents automatically becoming tagged along as our children slowly but surely making us do what we never planned ... anyway !

nytraveler

I think you're missing the point - I'm not suggesting that children select their parents vacations. Simply that involving them is a good way to help them learn some practical skills and mature towards adultdhood while taking some of the planning burden off their parents. If I were traveling with a teen - they would have very specific responsabilities - including deciding what they want to see (and getting details on locations, hours, etc,) making their own budget and doing some language learning - so they have a chance to learn to deal with locals on their own. After all, if you don't teach your children some practical life skills (basic cooking, laundry, credit and money management, how to adapt to new circumstances) when they're in their teens when will you teach them? After 17 they're really gone and it's too late to teach them anything.

Unfortunately a lot of parents don't think about these things and then you end up with college students - and even 20 somethings - who are dead helpless - dont't have a clue how to take care of themselves or deal with real life (like the ones I can't hire or hire, fail to do the job and wash out).

OaktownTraveler

Dear Nytraveler:

Let's start at the beginning as I see it...

..."even taking some of the hassle of searching for air, hotels etc. off the hands of very busy adults..."

Those are your words which tell me that your problem of definition lies with how you see travel and employment. These are PPORTUNITIES.

You have the "wrong" idea so to speak.

Travel is not a "chore" for children or teens. Travel remains a PRIVLIGE for those who can sacrafice the time and the money.

Working is also a PRIVLIGE. Just ask those who have been unemployed and have been looking for the OPPORTUNITY to work. If pressed your boss will let you know that your work is a privildge too...

..."If you are old enough to pick a college...select a career path...surely you can manage organizing a hotel..."

I am LAUGHING soooo hard. Many of us adults on these FODOR boards have revealed accidentially or intentionally that WE do not get this right...That would include the HOTEL (smile).

Many children (birth-12) and teens(12-19) do not get to participate in the luxury of travel with family or by themselves for a host of logical reasons.

The issue is how we parents present travel and vacations to our MIDDDLE CLASS to UPPER CLASS children/teen.

Dispite our God given ability to travel and vacation LOTS... our child who is now a teen KNOWS that travel is not something that he "gets" to do.
He must earn the OPPORTUNITY by behavior, attitude and interest.

Remember: You do not take sand to the beach!

He must also show sacrafice. IF he is going with us then we all decide how much money he must bring to the table.

If he chooses to spend his funds on other things then he is making CHOICES that he has to live with. Grandparents may not bail him out if he falls short.

I have to say our son has not missed a travel/vacation OPPORTUNITY that he really wanted to take advantage of.

He DOES NOT select our vacations. That would be giving him the wrong idea about how life works on me and his dad's planet.
Our son does complete research on the aspects of the trip that interest him such as: his own entertainment, shopping and how can he invite a friend to come with if appropriate.

I do not think you are a curmudgeon.

My Best,
Oaktown Traveler

Tat

you never said whether you have children...
It IS important as when I didn't have-I thought of life differently myself.
I am not missing anyhting - it is just you see kids as pests who goes on paid by parents vacation.
I see them as hard workers, who learn, play sports, babysit their siblings, volunteer and do a lot more.
Complaining about new generation is not a sign of a educated person, as world had been, still here and will be until the end.

OaktownTraveler

NYTRAVELER:

I think we were writing at the same time so on your post above I add:

As parents we are teaching them alllll of those wonderful things that you mentioned as soon as they blow baby spit bubbles into our faces...this continues through the age of 12...the spit and the intense teaching.
We can still sit on them at that point without getting into trouble with Child Protective Services...

NEWSFLASH::: "You" can not teach a teen anything! They know it all...just ask them. You can however, encourage, support and inspire and if desoerate BRIBE a teen to LEARN, EXPLORE and to GO-FOR-IT!

Since day one WE and the grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers, coaches, pastors, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Social Organizations, Civic Organizations and allll those others in THE VILLAGE have been teaching the children sans teens and young adults, all those wonderful skills, responsibilities and more that you note.

Everybody has lots of work to do on working with the locals at home and while travelling...check the newspaper...

NYTRAVELER: Know that many of us are working on "it" 24-7. Also know that unfortunately many are not.

My Best,
Oaktown Traveler

Surfergirl

NY, I don't think any of us are missing the point. Perhaps you don't have children. I don't think this is a travel-related issue. I think it's more of a parent instilling responsibility and independence in their children issue.

What you really need to be asking, on another board, is whether the problem you find really lies in the upbringing as a whole. Does, for example, the parent take over a child's school project so the child can get a better grade? (And for those parents that do, it's neither conferring a great benefit on the child nor is it faking out the teacher who gets the parent's work). Sure, we want the best for our kids, including good grades. But what's really important is knowing that they are prepared for the real world once they turn 18. They need to be able to think for themselves and have basic survival skills.

As opposed to the draft as I may be, one of the best parts about it was that a young man learned how to cook, sew, make a bed, and all those other survival skills that moms in the 50's used to do for their boys. These skills must be taught, both boys and girls, by the parents or they end up nowhere.

How this is travel related still perplexes me.

nytraveler

Sorry if this is too far off target. The only reason I put on this board is that seeing some travel queries from people traveling with teens seemed so odd that it started me thinking on this topic. But nuf said - those who get it will and those who don't won't.

jay

i have travelled to europe with my 17 yr old daughter 4 times and i couldn't think of a better travel partner. she planned our 3 week trip to france and italy two years ago and we had a blast. she is also the designated navigator while i am driving (mom sits in back). i think it is the only way to raise your kids. she has even traveled to finland twice by herself (staying with a family we know but flying and transferring by herself). we raised her to be independent and think for herself. she starts college in london in sept. we know children her age who have never been out of the state or know nothing of world events, customs or cultures.

jsmith

I think this was a very thought provoking topic and I thank you for starting it. Much more interesting than the dead horse of currency exchange.

Sue_xx_yy

No, nyctraveler, I don't think it's off target - you're asking about travel planning, and who should carry what responsibility.

However, there are limits to the extent that a family can be run like a corporation.