AJPeabody

The hotel, if it did use the DCC scam, will furiously resist cancelling the original charge and recharging in euros. Each transaction, the original, the retraction, and the correct charge, will cost them the merchant discount. If they did use DCC and refuse to redo the charge, you may need to compromise and get $30 in hotel credit, or, better, 30 euros. Or, you could do a credit card dispute, but that may require you find a different hotel.

rialtogrl

It was AJPeabody, not me who figured this out for you! To add to AJ's last comment, I had a hotel in Spain pull the DCC on me in May without asking (it was a Cap One card.) It was 1100 euros and I made them reverse it and redo it in euros not dollars. However, for some reason I still got overcharged $20 on this particular charge. I was aggravated but decided not to take it up with the hotel - all I can say is, ANYTIME you are charging something in Spain now, I will say CHARGE ME IN EUROS ONLY. NOT DOLLARS. You have to tell them. I guess you are going to France, I am sorry to hear they are letting the banks pull this crap there too.

Honestly I do not think the staff of some these places are not being told they have to ask. Or the bank is not telling the merchant that they have to ask. You can tell who got the memo and who did not.

MmePerdu

Whatever the answer, bank or hotel, it reminds me of the Olden Days when big signs on currency exchange businesses announced "no fee". It was a long time ago but I think I fell for it more than once, until someone clued me in about rates. DCC got me once, unasked, at an Edinburgh Woolen Mill store in Bakewell and it wasn't enough money to go back, but I wish I had. I have no illusions that these practices in one form or another will ever go away but I think we'd all feel a bit better if we did what Patrick is doing and keep at it.

Recently I began to get direct deposits a day or 2 later than the business entity pledged on their site was the policy. This went on for a couple of months and I called, spoke to 2 people, the supervisor insisting that it was my bank at fault. They never fessed up. However, every deposit since the call has been on time. Coincidence?

NeoPatrick

OMG -- just a little embarrassed that this got so blown out of proportion.

I got an email from the hotel in Aix-en-Provence this morning. They apologized for "overcharging me by 28.01 euros". They will be refunding that amount to my Visa card. They said "of course we only charge in euro". What happened, according to them -- and YES, I do believe them -- is that the amount of my stay agreed by Accor was 28.01 less for the third night (Sunday) than the other two nights, but the hotel inadvertently charged me the larger amount for all three nights.

So much for the Dynamic Currency Conversion theory! LOL

Meanwhile, this morning a new charge appears for another three night stay at an Accor (McGallery) hotel in Lyon. The amount in US Dollars IS the exact rate shown for yesterday on the VISA currency conversion calculator. So again NO DCC!

But it does make one wonder -- how many people never check their bills csrefully, comparing currencies to make sure the amounts are right -- even when it's a simple mistake as this was? And frankly, it's kind of irritating that the online Visa bill doesn't show the amount charged in the foreign currency. All along I was figuring the Euro amount was the amount my confirmation said -- how would I know they accidentally charged more Euro than that when it doesn't show the amount charged in Euro?

thursdaysd

Glad you got it sorted out. But DCC is definitely alive and well. Both the otherwise recommendable Motel One in Berlin and in Bremen asked if I wanted to pay in USD or euro. At least they asked.

I noticed last year that some ATMs were offering DCC!

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"the amount of my stay agreed by Accor was 28.01 less for the third night (Sunday) than the other two nights, but the hotel inadvertently charged me the larger amount for all three nights."</font></i>

This mistake happens more often than it should. Many popular hotels are now charging different rates for different nights of the week. Add that to high, low, middle and holiday season rates, and you have reservation staff making all kinds of mistakes. Some hotels in the French Riviera have added another rate category: special event, for Cannes and Grand Prix.

If a traveler encounters a rate change while doing research, and you decide to book, it is important to make a note of the rate details. Often, especially in pre-paid situations, the room nights are not itemized, and all you see is the final charge. You could save yourself a bit of a mind bend if you consider a logical reason from the source first, based on your notes.

Kathie

So glad to hear you got this resolved and that it was a simple mistake rather than the nefarious DCC! So take your Hyatt card along on your trip and rack up those points!

Dukey1

I thought, perhaps incorrectly, that merchants are required to ask you about whether or not they will be charging in local vs. your own currency before doing so. You have always had the option of deciding to allow the charge to be in local vs. other currencies. The one "exception" I am directly familiar with is with Hertz (which supposedly was one of the originators of the whole DCC concept) which used to have DCC written into their rental agreements. When you signed the agreement you were also agreeing to the DCC use.

I had a major, MAJOR fight with Hertz several years ago when I rented a car at Heathrow and, for once, actually looked over the contract and refused to allow the DCC. I eventually "won" that fight but it was hard to do and got messy.

Then there have been the several hotel clerks who claim they are unable to charge in local currency (this has miraculously righted itself once a manager is summoned and the threat of actually writing on the charge slip that "merchant refused to charge in local currency" was invoked.

thursdaysd

Yes, merchants are SUPPOSED to ask you which currency to use. Whether they actually do so is a whole other matter. It pays to be vigilant.

Christina

Every ATM I just used in Paris offered the DCC, but it was very clear that you could choose (euro or USD). I guess that was only two bank companies but I don't think they used to do that.

I always check my bills religiously for every bill, every month, but I know a lot of people don't. That's why some people get away with CC fraud by charging small amounts, some people never notice. And I always check the conversion rate when foreign, also. I have all my receipts, that's how I do it. I always get my CC receipts whenever I use it, on vacation or at home. I might just eyeball some of the smaller ones when I have an idea what it should be (right now, just 10 pct higher than the euro amt), not get out the calculator for each one, but I sure would for a huge hotel bill.

I just got my Chase Visa bill for my foreign charges, and it does show the original amt and conversation rate right on it. I also noticed they didn't when I was checking it online before I received it, I wonder why that is, they have the amt already in the computer, obviously, and the amt calculated that they are going to charge you.

xyz123

It was DCC and it is easy to tell why. Under the settlement of a class action involving foreign exchange on US visa and mastercard cards, both the original amount in local currency and the amount in US currency must be shown on your billing statement. The fact the Chase representative could not tell the OP the amount in euro shows the charge was submitted in US dollars. In other words, the OP was DCC'd. Yes, under visa/mc rules, the merchant must allow the scamee to opt out of DCC. Some do. Many do not and have a whole bunch of lies ready. You contacted the hotel and demanded the charge be voided and re-submitted properly in euro. If they refuse, then you tell Chase you want the charge charged back as it was unauthorized. Sometimes if the amount is small, your issuing bank does not want to do a chargeback and issues a credit on its own accord for the difference but probably not in this case when we're talking about $30. Incidentally, since Amex does not allow DCC, I only use Amex to pre-book a hotel although I only have one Amex card which doesn't have a ftf which is my Delta platinum Amex card. Keep us informed.

xyz123

Sorry neopatrick...I didn't read your last post where they claimed it was a miscalculation of the rate although I'm not entirely sure they are telling you the truth because of what I said above. Did you receive the actual bill yet from Chase showing the inflated amount in euro? What did the receipt show? I may simply be more cynical than you are and in this case until I see the charge on my statement, I would still suspect they got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar and are trying to lie their way out although I will agree with you that DCC is not all that common in France but things like this do happen often.

Kathie

xyz, one of the oddities of the Chase website is that when I check my bill online I can't see the original cost in the foreign currency, only the converted US$ price, but I can always see the original price in the foreign currency online once my statement has closed.

NeoPatrick

Xyz, I don,t think you read what I wrote. I know the room the last night is exactly 28.01 euros less than the other two nights. They did not deduct that amount from the total bill. If I add that exact amount to what my bill was supposed to be and multiply by the exact rate Visa charged on the exact day of the transaction, the total in U.S. Dollars comes out to the exact amount on my bill. If you're thinking they are lying and it's just a coincidence that their DCC charges happened to also be exactly 28.01 euro, well I think that would belong in Ripley's. Don't you?

But you are right about one thing. You are indeed much more cynical than I if you would believe in such a bizarre coincidence.

But yes, on my statement it will show the exact amount of the real purchase, and I already know by the rates and amount, that that original charge will be exactly 28.01 euro more than it should have been. Satisfied?

xyz123

neopatrick...my first response to you was before I read your update and then I said it is possible and indicated the only way to know for sure would be when the statement came. It was my fault to jump the gun but I think I corrected it in the second posting. If indeed that was the problem, it was okay. To be frank, I was a bit surprised this occurred in France as it usually doesn't but I stand by what I said; it did sound fishy to me when the csr told you they couldn't see the euro amount. I am aware that many online interim lists do not indicate the original amount in the local currency but I've been on other boards where similar complaints to yours have been made and yes the answer eventually was dcc. Whether it applied in your case or not, there are still 2 things to be said that are good advice for everybody. If you receive a billing statement for a mastercard or visa account and a foreign transaction occurred and no amount shown of the original charge in local currency, that is an indication that dcc was probably involved and contrary to what was said, it is metastasizing throughout the world and has become especially a problem in Spain and in Italy. Also many hotels, even of large chains, have begun sneaking on check in statements that you agree to dcc (some car rental companies such as Avis do this routinely and in a language other than English and of course how many people read a check in notice or a rental contract before signing?

Of course many people don't know this scam exists or think a merchant is doing them a favor when they tell them they will bill them in their currency. Secondly, Amex does not allow dcc. Just advice for the future but I'm glad you feel satisfied and indeed if that was the explanation no problem or tears shed and my apologies for my first response; if only this was a normal bulletin board where one could edit a posting, it would have been done so when I read your update.

NeoPatrick

". . .but I think I corrected it in the second posting."

Well, in the second posting you clearly said, "I'm not entirely sure they are telling you the truth because of what I said above." But I've clearly stated that the coincidence of the exact odd amounts being identical is virtually not possible". And you also still stated, "until I see the charge on my statement, I would still suspect they got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar and are trying to lie their way out of it". But as I have explained -- I can already "see" exactly what the amount in euros charged was -- as all I have to do is add that "discount" amount to the invoice amount and it clearly IS the exact amount in euro of the charge itself. I don't need to see the actual charge in euro if I work backward and divide the dollar charge by the VISA daily rate for the transaction date. When I do, I get the exact euro amount they charged. So there is absolutely NO way to believe they "got their fingers caught in the cookie jar" as it is simply NOT plausible that their DCC amount was exactly 28.01 which "just happened" to be the exact same amount of the third night discount --28.01. OK? But if you still want to suggest that IS what happened, then feel free to do so.

Yes, you are very cynical. When someone tells me what happened and what they say makes absolute 100% sense and is mathematically accurate to the penny -- then I have no reason to keep accusing them of probably lying or cheating. I'm glad I don't go through life accusing everyone of trying to cheat me -- but that doesn't mean I'm willing to believe someone has tried to cheat me when their story simply doesn't make sense or there is ANY reason to believe they are lying. In this case, those last things are simply not evident.

indy_dad

I didn't know about the Visa link/info. Very helpful. I was able to confirm my Cap One rate was identical with no fees (as promised).

More exact link:

http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-be...calculator.jsp