Charge cards
Jan 27th, 2009, 02:29 AM
#41
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XYZ, you don't carry enough cash to pay for a £3 sandwich? All I can say, is never go to Rwanda, where <i>everything</i> except in a few upmarket hotels, is strictly cash. You get used to carrying a wad of crisp, new $100 bills after a while. 
Jan 27th, 2009, 03:01 AM
#43
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You missed the point....I didn't really object to the minimum. I objected to the fact there was no sign indicating there was a minimum. If there's a sign and I insist on paying with a credit card for a 3 quid sandwich, then I am an ugly American indeed. But that was not the point...there should be a sign if a merchant wishes to establish a minimum for use of a credit card. If there was a sign and I insisted on paying with a credit card, then I would be an arrogant fart. But I felt embarassed that they had credit card decals and then told me there was such a rule. How was I to know?
When I travel, I use credit cards for everything so I don't constantly have to worry about how much cash I have...just as an example, during the week I was in London, I think the only time I used cash was at my favorite internet cafe each morning. Every other last expense, lunches at pret a manger, breakfasts at McDonald's (yes I am a very cheap person), my oyster card for a 7 day pass with an extension to Heathrow, my hotel bill, my dinners, my theatre tickets, my snacks which I pick up before going to the theatre for use at half time was a credit card. For the week, I spent abougt £8 in cash and everything else was a credit card, Only way to travel of course.
When I travel, I use credit cards for everything so I don't constantly have to worry about how much cash I have...just as an example, during the week I was in London, I think the only time I used cash was at my favorite internet cafe each morning. Every other last expense, lunches at pret a manger, breakfasts at McDonald's (yes I am a very cheap person), my oyster card for a 7 day pass with an extension to Heathrow, my hotel bill, my dinners, my theatre tickets, my snacks which I pick up before going to the theatre for use at half time was a credit card. For the week, I spent abougt £8 in cash and everything else was a credit card, Only way to travel of course.
Jan 27th, 2009, 03:32 AM
#44
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Whatever floats your boat..
... yet I doubt that your way to travel is the "only way to travel". Actually, I think it is a quite unique way to travel.
I have met a fair share of Americans in my life, either current close friends, business partners, or random acquaintances. But NONE of them ever told me that he would travel with less than $10 in his wallet for a specific reason (except of being short on cash).
Actually, I would not want to leave a trace of transactions for every bit and piece I buy.
Since you seem to be afraid of CC abuse and ID theft, I see no logic in using CC at any possible occasion, even at a McD.
I would assume that someone who is sensitive towards CC abuse would get, for example, $50 in cash, and limit CC use to hotel, restaurant, and major purchases to keep the number of possibilities for fraud or abuse low.
But you seem to be both: very cautious of CC abuse, and very anxious to use your CC as often as possible. For me, that is a contradiction in itself.
... yet I doubt that your way to travel is the "only way to travel". Actually, I think it is a quite unique way to travel.
I have met a fair share of Americans in my life, either current close friends, business partners, or random acquaintances. But NONE of them ever told me that he would travel with less than $10 in his wallet for a specific reason (except of being short on cash).
Actually, I would not want to leave a trace of transactions for every bit and piece I buy.
Since you seem to be afraid of CC abuse and ID theft, I see no logic in using CC at any possible occasion, even at a McD.
I would assume that someone who is sensitive towards CC abuse would get, for example, $50 in cash, and limit CC use to hotel, restaurant, and major purchases to keep the number of possibilities for fraud or abuse low.
But you seem to be both: very cautious of CC abuse, and very anxious to use your CC as often as possible. For me, that is a contradiction in itself.
Jan 27th, 2009, 04:14 AM
#45
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COWBOY...
Today, at most fast food places, the cc never leaves your possession...you swipe it and the clerk never sees it. In most cases, fast food places were among the last to begin accepting credit cards. They claimed it would slow up business what with printing the charge slip and having the customer sign it so they negotiated a deal with the credit card companies. At most fast food places, if the charge is under a certain amount, they don't even bother with a signature.
Of course, let's not leave out the big advantage of using credit cards. I get the exact interbank rate on the exchange without any fees (thank you Capital One)...you are charged about 10% when all is said and done with fees when exchanging cash. So in a week of travel in London where I spent $1200, I saved $120 by using credit cards certainly nothing to sneer at.
Also from a merchant view point, credit card transactions are much more convenient..no cash to disappear..no arguments over whether I gave the clerk a $10 bill or a $20 bill. Just this very day I was at the grocery. The lady in front of me had $13.84 in groceries. After the amount was run up, she first reached for her pocket book, looked for her wallet, then started counting out let's see a $10 bill, three one dollar bills, then went into her change purse and started to count out 84 cents...she got to 80 cents, found she didn't have 4 pennies, put her change purse away, took out her wallet again, didn't have another $1 bill asked for the 3 $1 bills back and gave the clerk a $5 and then the clerk made change for $15....compare that to my transaction...bill is $4.39...out comes the credit card, swipe it, within seconds authorized, sign the slip and go. Which is a more efficient transaction?
No, I respectfully disagree. this is the 21st century. Electronic payments both to the merchant and to the customers are the way to go. When travelling, no worries about not having enough cash...not having to worry whether I have to hit the ATM. Bill comes, credit card comes out, in Europe they bring the terminal right to the table (something which should be mandated in the USA which would cut down on theft of credit card numbers), they swipe the card, hand me the terminal, ask me to add the tip if I desire press a button, sign the slip done. A much more civil way of doing business don't you think!
Today, at most fast food places, the cc never leaves your possession...you swipe it and the clerk never sees it. In most cases, fast food places were among the last to begin accepting credit cards. They claimed it would slow up business what with printing the charge slip and having the customer sign it so they negotiated a deal with the credit card companies. At most fast food places, if the charge is under a certain amount, they don't even bother with a signature.
Of course, let's not leave out the big advantage of using credit cards. I get the exact interbank rate on the exchange without any fees (thank you Capital One)...you are charged about 10% when all is said and done with fees when exchanging cash. So in a week of travel in London where I spent $1200, I saved $120 by using credit cards certainly nothing to sneer at.
Also from a merchant view point, credit card transactions are much more convenient..no cash to disappear..no arguments over whether I gave the clerk a $10 bill or a $20 bill. Just this very day I was at the grocery. The lady in front of me had $13.84 in groceries. After the amount was run up, she first reached for her pocket book, looked for her wallet, then started counting out let's see a $10 bill, three one dollar bills, then went into her change purse and started to count out 84 cents...she got to 80 cents, found she didn't have 4 pennies, put her change purse away, took out her wallet again, didn't have another $1 bill asked for the 3 $1 bills back and gave the clerk a $5 and then the clerk made change for $15....compare that to my transaction...bill is $4.39...out comes the credit card, swipe it, within seconds authorized, sign the slip and go. Which is a more efficient transaction?
No, I respectfully disagree. this is the 21st century. Electronic payments both to the merchant and to the customers are the way to go. When travelling, no worries about not having enough cash...not having to worry whether I have to hit the ATM. Bill comes, credit card comes out, in Europe they bring the terminal right to the table (something which should be mandated in the USA which would cut down on theft of credit card numbers), they swipe the card, hand me the terminal, ask me to add the tip if I desire press a button, sign the slip done. A much more civil way of doing business don't you think!
Jan 27th, 2009, 05:51 AM
#46
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Funny, just did a google on credit card fraud,...there were 11,700,000 hits. Not as many for cash fraud 
Heard of TJX/Winners and the 45 Million numbers stolen in 2007, or more recently the Heartland incident.."the company handles 100 million transactions per month. So many that it may be impossible to tell whose credit cards could be affected".
Welcome to the 21st century...
And the above does not include any point of sale fraud.
I prefer to pay cash for all day to day transactions while traveling, meals, sites, incidentals, souvenirs. Flight would be CC, and if required, hotel.
It may also be that your CC charges a percentage per transaction, while an ATM may only charge per withdrawal, regardless of amount.
Heard of TJX/Winners and the 45 Million numbers stolen in 2007, or more recently the Heartland incident.."the company handles 100 million transactions per month. So many that it may be impossible to tell whose credit cards could be affected".
Welcome to the 21st century...
And the above does not include any point of sale fraud.
I prefer to pay cash for all day to day transactions while traveling, meals, sites, incidentals, souvenirs. Flight would be CC, and if required, hotel.
It may also be that your CC charges a percentage per transaction, while an ATM may only charge per withdrawal, regardless of amount.
Jan 27th, 2009, 06:54 AM
#47
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I find it bit hard to fight over CC vs. cash payment, since everyone can do as he or she pleases.
I have never understood why some people NEVER use CC, and others ALWAYS. These fights get as anal as those whether trains or cars get you where you want to go in Europe. Some people are willing to travel 10 hrs for 100 km and changes buses 5 times just to prove that it is possible. Or drive their car to downtown Milano to prove the opposite.
My preference is to adjust to the occasion in either case.
You blow things out of proportions when you say that you saved $120 on $1200 by not exchanging cash.
No one suggested that you pay 100% of your expenditures in cash. Again, the old all or nothing rhethoric.
The case we have been talking about might have added up to $100. From your savings you have to deduct possible surcharges for CC use for small purchases in the UK.
As you can read in other posters' replies, not everyone shares your views on CC preference.
Whenever you pull out your wallet at a busy McD, newsstand, ticket machine, and so on, a potential pickpocket can go for it and disappear in the crowd. That usually happens less when checking out at the hotel.
I find that much more annoying than taking a few coins or a small bill out of my jeans pocket to pay for a magazine, a bottle of Coke, or a burger. For that miscellanous shopping I also don't want to look for stores which accept CC. I simply do not care. And I do not want 200 items for €2-3 on my CC statement. Again, just me.
Your strategy to put all on one (credit) card might have worked in the UK, which I would call rather "CC friendly".
Since the OP has also asked about the tiny "rest of Europe", too, I would say that there are many countries where many restaurants and stores still only take either cash or debit cards, but not credit cards.
I have never understood why some people NEVER use CC, and others ALWAYS. These fights get as anal as those whether trains or cars get you where you want to go in Europe. Some people are willing to travel 10 hrs for 100 km and changes buses 5 times just to prove that it is possible. Or drive their car to downtown Milano to prove the opposite.
My preference is to adjust to the occasion in either case.
You blow things out of proportions when you say that you saved $120 on $1200 by not exchanging cash.
No one suggested that you pay 100% of your expenditures in cash. Again, the old all or nothing rhethoric.
The case we have been talking about might have added up to $100. From your savings you have to deduct possible surcharges for CC use for small purchases in the UK.
As you can read in other posters' replies, not everyone shares your views on CC preference.
Whenever you pull out your wallet at a busy McD, newsstand, ticket machine, and so on, a potential pickpocket can go for it and disappear in the crowd. That usually happens less when checking out at the hotel.
I find that much more annoying than taking a few coins or a small bill out of my jeans pocket to pay for a magazine, a bottle of Coke, or a burger. For that miscellanous shopping I also don't want to look for stores which accept CC. I simply do not care. And I do not want 200 items for €2-3 on my CC statement. Again, just me.
Your strategy to put all on one (credit) card might have worked in the UK, which I would call rather "CC friendly".
Since the OP has also asked about the tiny "rest of Europe", too, I would say that there are many countries where many restaurants and stores still only take either cash or debit cards, but not credit cards.
Jan 27th, 2009, 07:24 AM
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Posts and discussions like this are interesting because they reveal more about the poster than the situation.
<<When I'm in England, I go into some shops where the <b>bird brained clerks,</b> despite the fact the card does not have a chip insist on sticking the card into the chip and pin reader first no matter what thus ruining the signature stip. And no amount of telling these <b>jerks</b> keep them from doing this.>>
Sometimes we are unaware of the situations in our own country that make equally no sense. I cannot use my credit card in Florida at a gas bar because I don't have a zip code. Of course I don't have a zip code... I don't live in the states, This in a state whose main economy is visitors. Tell me that makes sense.
<<Also I have noticed that in the UK, merchants always check the signature on the credit card slip against the signature on the card. They almost never do in the USA.>>
This happens routinely at many Walmarts and Best Buys in Florida. Some even insist on an alternate form of identification.
Using a credit card for a small purchase is frowned upon anywhere. Merchants must pay a % charge plus a per transaction charge. If I were the shopkeeper given your ultimatum, you would have gone hungry!
<<When I'm in England, I go into some shops where the <b>bird brained clerks,</b> despite the fact the card does not have a chip insist on sticking the card into the chip and pin reader first no matter what thus ruining the signature stip. And no amount of telling these <b>jerks</b> keep them from doing this.>>
Sometimes we are unaware of the situations in our own country that make equally no sense. I cannot use my credit card in Florida at a gas bar because I don't have a zip code. Of course I don't have a zip code... I don't live in the states, This in a state whose main economy is visitors. Tell me that makes sense.
<<Also I have noticed that in the UK, merchants always check the signature on the credit card slip against the signature on the card. They almost never do in the USA.>>
This happens routinely at many Walmarts and Best Buys in Florida. Some even insist on an alternate form of identification.
Using a credit card for a small purchase is frowned upon anywhere. Merchants must pay a % charge plus a per transaction charge. If I were the shopkeeper given your ultimatum, you would have gone hungry!
Jan 27th, 2009, 12:10 PM
#52
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xyz123,
So, just because the Subway you went to in England didn't have a sign saying they require a minimum purchase amount for a credit card transaction, you feel that you had the right to act like an Ugly American and demand that they accept your credit card, thus practically giving you the sandwich for free since they have to pay a processing fee almost equivalent to the cost of your sandwich?
If I saw you at this Subway trying to do this, I'd be so embarrassed as a fellow American that I'd tell you "go home."
You can't expect everything to work the same way as they do in America.
So, just because the Subway you went to in England didn't have a sign saying they require a minimum purchase amount for a credit card transaction, you feel that you had the right to act like an Ugly American and demand that they accept your credit card, thus practically giving you the sandwich for free since they have to pay a processing fee almost equivalent to the cost of your sandwich?
If I saw you at this Subway trying to do this, I'd be so embarrassed as a fellow American that I'd tell you "go home."
You can't expect everything to work the same way as they do in America.
Jan 27th, 2009, 12:37 PM
#53
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I'll say it again....
I didn't lose my temper, I didn't shoud. I went to a shop, there were credit card decals so I assumed I could use my credit card. Is there anything wrong with that.
Then they told me there was a £5 minimum...I simply said I don't walk around with that kind of cash. They told me to go across the street and use the ATM. I said, again even tempered, they charge me fees for that.
I didn't demand anything. It came down either they let me pay for the sandwich with my credit card or I walk out.
Golly, I just don't see how I acted improperly. You are acting like it is a given that there is a minimum needed to use a credit card.
Had there been such a sign, I wouldn't have bought the sandwich.
That sure doesn't make me an Ugly American.....I could have been from Timbuctoo and if I walk into a shop that says it accepts mastercard and nothing else, then I would expect I could use my credit card. Wouldn't you??????
You are acting like it is a given that stores can set a minimum for use of a credit card.
I have gone into many other chain shops in Londno, and used my credit card, no questions asked, for as little as £1.09. So, how would I know this particular shop had a minimum for use of a credit card.
BTW I have a merchant account to accept credit cards. I get charged a certain percentage for taking a card...3% or thereabout whether the charge is $1 or $500, it's the same thing.
I don't understand what I did wrong...the store had the mc decal so I expected it to take the card. Simple logic isn't it?
I didn't lose my temper, I didn't shoud. I went to a shop, there were credit card decals so I assumed I could use my credit card. Is there anything wrong with that.
Then they told me there was a £5 minimum...I simply said I don't walk around with that kind of cash. They told me to go across the street and use the ATM. I said, again even tempered, they charge me fees for that.
I didn't demand anything. It came down either they let me pay for the sandwich with my credit card or I walk out.
Golly, I just don't see how I acted improperly. You are acting like it is a given that there is a minimum needed to use a credit card.
Had there been such a sign, I wouldn't have bought the sandwich.
That sure doesn't make me an Ugly American.....I could have been from Timbuctoo and if I walk into a shop that says it accepts mastercard and nothing else, then I would expect I could use my credit card. Wouldn't you??????
You are acting like it is a given that stores can set a minimum for use of a credit card.
I have gone into many other chain shops in Londno, and used my credit card, no questions asked, for as little as £1.09. So, how would I know this particular shop had a minimum for use of a credit card.
BTW I have a merchant account to accept credit cards. I get charged a certain percentage for taking a card...3% or thereabout whether the charge is $1 or $500, it's the same thing.
I don't understand what I did wrong...the store had the mc decal so I expected it to take the card. Simple logic isn't it?
Jan 27th, 2009, 12:51 PM
#54
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I am belaboring the point because I just don't understand...
Where does it say that in the UK, unlike the USA, there are minimums to use a credit card??????
Secondly, it was a chain store, not a mom and pop store where I would tend to expect minimums. London is plastered with credit card decals and yes in some places I have seen signs indicated a minimum for using a card...I accept that as their right. I don't go in where there is a sign and just try to act like a wise guy.
It is much the same as with dynamic currency conversion. We haven't seen much of a discussion of this recently. I have rarely encountered that in London; although I did in Scotland. When I am told it is store policy to convert currency or that it is required or that they have no control over it, I do indeed get upset and fight the lies as it is mc policy that dcc can only occur with the consent of the ripoffee. Does that prohibition not apply in the UK? I have no idea. I have yet to walk into any shop anywhere which has a sign saying the convert the currency on credit card purchases yet I have had that pulled on me. And unlike most, my name is Tucker not Sucker. I don't allow myself to be ripped off.
OTOH if there is a prominent sign, I would either ask before buying the purchase whether they pull the dcc scam or tell them not to. I would assume you see nothing wrong with that.
Does that make me an ugly American. I have read British newspaper articles telling travelling Brits to watch out for this scam. If they argue with a shopkeeper over this, are they an ugly Brit?
It has nothing to do with nationality. It has nothing to do with thinking things should be the same as in the USA in other parts of the world. It's a matter of what's right. If you have a sign saying you accept credit cards, how am I supposed to know there is a minimum??? I do know I've been told my mc it is not allowed. They didn't say it's only not allowed in the USA.
I do wonder, and believe me I've tried, whether merchant agreements in the UK do not contain the same customer protections as they do in the USA. I'm still waiting to have somebody give me a conclusive answer to that.
Where does it say that in the UK, unlike the USA, there are minimums to use a credit card??????
Secondly, it was a chain store, not a mom and pop store where I would tend to expect minimums. London is plastered with credit card decals and yes in some places I have seen signs indicated a minimum for using a card...I accept that as their right. I don't go in where there is a sign and just try to act like a wise guy.
It is much the same as with dynamic currency conversion. We haven't seen much of a discussion of this recently. I have rarely encountered that in London; although I did in Scotland. When I am told it is store policy to convert currency or that it is required or that they have no control over it, I do indeed get upset and fight the lies as it is mc policy that dcc can only occur with the consent of the ripoffee. Does that prohibition not apply in the UK? I have no idea. I have yet to walk into any shop anywhere which has a sign saying the convert the currency on credit card purchases yet I have had that pulled on me. And unlike most, my name is Tucker not Sucker. I don't allow myself to be ripped off.
OTOH if there is a prominent sign, I would either ask before buying the purchase whether they pull the dcc scam or tell them not to. I would assume you see nothing wrong with that.
Does that make me an ugly American. I have read British newspaper articles telling travelling Brits to watch out for this scam. If they argue with a shopkeeper over this, are they an ugly Brit?
It has nothing to do with nationality. It has nothing to do with thinking things should be the same as in the USA in other parts of the world. It's a matter of what's right. If you have a sign saying you accept credit cards, how am I supposed to know there is a minimum??? I do know I've been told my mc it is not allowed. They didn't say it's only not allowed in the USA.
I do wonder, and believe me I've tried, whether merchant agreements in the UK do not contain the same customer protections as they do in the USA. I'm still waiting to have somebody give me a conclusive answer to that.
Jan 27th, 2009, 12:54 PM
#55
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xyz123,
OK -- so it's your way, or no way.
You don't want to get cash at the ATM because you don't want to pay the fee...
And you insist on using your credit card to buy a £3 sandwich since you don't "walk around with that kind of cash" and it's the "only way to travel" (how anyone would not have at least £3 cash walking into a restaurant is beyond me; even the bums walk around with more cash than that!)...
And when the Subway shop you went to England said that there was a £5 minimum, you objected to that because they didn't have a sign stating this. So you walked out, because you think they should have a sign, since, golly how would you know, it's even illegal in America to charge a minimum, right!
xyz123...I'm not trying to pick on you. I understand how you feel. But it's the mentality that you carry when you travel abroad that will either make things easy, or way more difficult for you
(calling the British people "bird-brained" and "jerks" will definitely make things harder for you in England.).
When you're on someone else's turf, you must play by their rules. This whole thing about MasterCard's policy, ID theft concerns, privacy rights, objections to minimum charges (with sign or not)...they are all very real issues we think and talk about -- in a pay-by-credit oriented country like the US. But policies, values, and laws are different when you are abroad. You can't assume that everyone accepts credit cards the way it is accepted in the US. Even if there is no sign. And what if there is a sign saying there's a minimum charge, but it's not in English because you're in, say, France? Are you going to blame it on the store for not having a sign in ENGLISH telling you what you should know?
Furthermore, you can't assume every country welcomes electronic transactions. Many Chinese people still pay for everything in cold, hard, cash. Have you seen people pay for cars and houses in cash? Chinese people do it.
OK -- so it's your way, or no way.
You don't want to get cash at the ATM because you don't want to pay the fee...
And you insist on using your credit card to buy a £3 sandwich since you don't "walk around with that kind of cash" and it's the "only way to travel" (how anyone would not have at least £3 cash walking into a restaurant is beyond me; even the bums walk around with more cash than that!)...
And when the Subway shop you went to England said that there was a £5 minimum, you objected to that because they didn't have a sign stating this. So you walked out, because you think they should have a sign, since, golly how would you know, it's even illegal in America to charge a minimum, right!
xyz123...I'm not trying to pick on you. I understand how you feel. But it's the mentality that you carry when you travel abroad that will either make things easy, or way more difficult for you
(calling the British people "bird-brained" and "jerks" will definitely make things harder for you in England.).
When you're on someone else's turf, you must play by their rules. This whole thing about MasterCard's policy, ID theft concerns, privacy rights, objections to minimum charges (with sign or not)...they are all very real issues we think and talk about -- in a pay-by-credit oriented country like the US. But policies, values, and laws are different when you are abroad. You can't assume that everyone accepts credit cards the way it is accepted in the US. Even if there is no sign. And what if there is a sign saying there's a minimum charge, but it's not in English because you're in, say, France? Are you going to blame it on the store for not having a sign in ENGLISH telling you what you should know?
Furthermore, you can't assume every country welcomes electronic transactions. Many Chinese people still pay for everything in cold, hard, cash. Have you seen people pay for cars and houses in cash? Chinese people do it.
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:17 PM
#56
This discussion is a repeat of several others we've had in the past.
xyz and a few others on one "side" and many others w/ the opposite opinion. No one will convince the other side to change.
I am always surprised by the statements by many fellow Americans that ID is not required here. Maybe it is a State by state thing - but out here in northern California, at least 75% of merchants other than restaurants will ask for ID and I have <u>never</u> once heard a customer refuse to provide it.
IMO - xyz sticks to his "guns" because he can. It isn't pretty but he "wins" so he's happy. Maybe not a totally "ugly American" - but it does seem a bit OCD. Myself -- I'd never expect to charge a £3 sandwich. Especially since I know UK merchants have to pay fees.
xyz and a few others on one "side" and many others w/ the opposite opinion. No one will convince the other side to change.
I am always surprised by the statements by many fellow Americans that ID is not required here. Maybe it is a State by state thing - but out here in northern California, at least 75% of merchants other than restaurants will ask for ID and I have <u>never</u> once heard a customer refuse to provide it.
IMO - xyz sticks to his "guns" because he can. It isn't pretty but he "wins" so he's happy. Maybe not a totally "ugly American" - but it does seem a bit OCD. Myself -- I'd never expect to charge a £3 sandwich. Especially since I know UK merchants have to pay fees.
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:26 PM
#57
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Hey janisi...
Just out of curiosity, next time you're asked for id to make a credit card transaction say you don't have any. It doesn't have to be nasty. Just curious what would happen next....again the mc reg doesn't prohibit a merchant from asking for additional id..what it does ay if the customers refuses, they still have to complete the transaction!
You of course have every right to put your identity at risk. I choose not to!
Just out of curiosity, next time you're asked for id to make a credit card transaction say you don't have any. It doesn't have to be nasty. Just curious what would happen next....again the mc reg doesn't prohibit a merchant from asking for additional id..what it does ay if the customers refuses, they still have to complete the transaction!
You of course have every right to put your identity at risk. I choose not to!
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:27 PM
#58
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Maybe Fodors needs a pet peeves section.
I can understand xyz's irritation that one store which said it would take credit cards suddenly came up with an invisible limit.
I just don't understand how that can be turned into a matter of life and death, of principle, of consumer protection, as if the world as we know it came to a stop.
It's just been one lousy Subway bun.
I can understand xyz's irritation that one store which said it would take credit cards suddenly came up with an invisible limit.
I just don't understand how that can be turned into a matter of life and death, of principle, of consumer protection, as if the world as we know it came to a stop.
It's just been one lousy Subway bun.
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:40 PM
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nanci...
I accept every thing you said except one thing...nowhere did I call British people bird brains...I did call the clerks at this particular shop, none of whom are British BTW, birdbrains for sticking my non chip credit card into the chip readers even when told it's not a chip card. If that's done enough times, it will ruin the signature panel on the card. That they're not supposed to do. Be careful about making false accusations.
As far as some of the other things you said, well what I've found is that London in the last few years has most assuredly become much more credit card friendly and I rarely have run into the minimum payment problem in most places I frequent.
I do know you don't pay for a drink at a pub with a credit card (although many of them will take a credit card when you buy food) and would most assuredly not walk into a pub, buy a pint and then expect them to accept a card.
I will, though, stand in all due respect to you on what I said. If a merchant in the UK (or anywhere else) wishes to impose a minimum for use of a credit card, and their merchant agreement allows it, that is most assuredly their right. I don't quibble with that. But wouldn't you agree that if they are doing this, there should be some sort of sign.
Now there are many reasons one might not walk around with a whole lot of cash to pay for a £3 sandwich.
Example, it's my last day in the UK, I'm heading to the airport. Before getting on the tube to go out to Heathrow, I decide to eat lunch and have a sandwich and choose to go into Subway because I know the chain accepts credit cards. There are no signs indicating a minimum. An implausible situation? Happens all the time.
The whole purpose of the ionternational credit card system in 2009 is not to worry about currency conversion. You use your card to pay in sterling, the merchant gets his in sterling. Your cc company converts to your currency.
About a decade ago, in France, there was a strike by the armed car drivers bringing cash to banks and ATM's. The country was running out of cash. What happened? Many merchants, including the RATP dropped the minimum purchase requirements for use of credit cards and life went on. On the RATP, they've never been re-instituted. You can buy a single metro ticket using a credit card. You might feel embarassed to do so. I don't. That's what cc's are for.
I will acknowledge you get to know where you are. Germany is not credit card friendly although again many of the chain stores are or are becoming so. So I wouldn't count on being able to use a credit card, especially for a small purchase, in Germany.
But again, in all due respect, if you are going to accuse me of anything, at least get your facts correct.
I accept every thing you said except one thing...nowhere did I call British people bird brains...I did call the clerks at this particular shop, none of whom are British BTW, birdbrains for sticking my non chip credit card into the chip readers even when told it's not a chip card. If that's done enough times, it will ruin the signature panel on the card. That they're not supposed to do. Be careful about making false accusations.
As far as some of the other things you said, well what I've found is that London in the last few years has most assuredly become much more credit card friendly and I rarely have run into the minimum payment problem in most places I frequent.
I do know you don't pay for a drink at a pub with a credit card (although many of them will take a credit card when you buy food) and would most assuredly not walk into a pub, buy a pint and then expect them to accept a card.
I will, though, stand in all due respect to you on what I said. If a merchant in the UK (or anywhere else) wishes to impose a minimum for use of a credit card, and their merchant agreement allows it, that is most assuredly their right. I don't quibble with that. But wouldn't you agree that if they are doing this, there should be some sort of sign.
Now there are many reasons one might not walk around with a whole lot of cash to pay for a £3 sandwich.
Example, it's my last day in the UK, I'm heading to the airport. Before getting on the tube to go out to Heathrow, I decide to eat lunch and have a sandwich and choose to go into Subway because I know the chain accepts credit cards. There are no signs indicating a minimum. An implausible situation? Happens all the time.
The whole purpose of the ionternational credit card system in 2009 is not to worry about currency conversion. You use your card to pay in sterling, the merchant gets his in sterling. Your cc company converts to your currency.
About a decade ago, in France, there was a strike by the armed car drivers bringing cash to banks and ATM's. The country was running out of cash. What happened? Many merchants, including the RATP dropped the minimum purchase requirements for use of credit cards and life went on. On the RATP, they've never been re-instituted. You can buy a single metro ticket using a credit card. You might feel embarassed to do so. I don't. That's what cc's are for.
I will acknowledge you get to know where you are. Germany is not credit card friendly although again many of the chain stores are or are becoming so. So I wouldn't count on being able to use a credit card, especially for a small purchase, in Germany.
But again, in all due respect, if you are going to accuse me of anything, at least get your facts correct.
Jan 27th, 2009, 01:54 PM
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> But wouldn't you agree that if they are doing this, there should be some sort of sign.
No, I don't agree with you. If there's a sign stating there's a minimum purchase, then great -- now you know their policy.
If there's no sign, you should ask questions about how things work there. Like I said, what if a store that accepts credit cards has a sign stating the minimum purchase amount, but it's in French since the shop is in France or a French-speaking country? Are you going to blame the store for not having a sign in English for your convenience?
As for using the terms "bird brained clerks" and "jerks" to describe your particular shopping experience in England...I don't care if you were or weren't really intending to describe the Brits with those words, all I'm saying is that your words describe who you are, how you think, how you behave abroad.
-- Choose to be annoyed because things in other countries work differently, and traveling will get more annoying for you. As a result, you learn less and feel more frustrated as a traveler.
-- Choose to communicate and understand, then things will go much more smoothly. If the store clerk doesn't understand that there's no microchip on your American credit card, kindly explain it to him. Why is he a "jerk" for not knowing about how American credit cards work? He's just doing what he typically does on the job in his own country. He doesn't need to know about the magnetic strip, or however the system works in the US. He lives in England, and you're on their turf!
-- Mentality such as "my way or no way" or "that's not how we do it here in America" or "they should do it like we do it here in the US" will make your experiences abroad more difficult.
Ok, I feel bad for the OP. Sorry Joanel for ruining your thread. I'm gonna peace out. Cheers.
No, I don't agree with you. If there's a sign stating there's a minimum purchase, then great -- now you know their policy.
If there's no sign, you should ask questions about how things work there. Like I said, what if a store that accepts credit cards has a sign stating the minimum purchase amount, but it's in French since the shop is in France or a French-speaking country? Are you going to blame the store for not having a sign in English for your convenience?
As for using the terms "bird brained clerks" and "jerks" to describe your particular shopping experience in England...I don't care if you were or weren't really intending to describe the Brits with those words, all I'm saying is that your words describe who you are, how you think, how you behave abroad.
-- Choose to be annoyed because things in other countries work differently, and traveling will get more annoying for you. As a result, you learn less and feel more frustrated as a traveler.
-- Choose to communicate and understand, then things will go much more smoothly. If the store clerk doesn't understand that there's no microchip on your American credit card, kindly explain it to him. Why is he a "jerk" for not knowing about how American credit cards work? He's just doing what he typically does on the job in his own country. He doesn't need to know about the magnetic strip, or however the system works in the US. He lives in England, and you're on their turf!
-- Mentality such as "my way or no way" or "that's not how we do it here in America" or "they should do it like we do it here in the US" will make your experiences abroad more difficult.
Ok, I feel bad for the OP. Sorry Joanel for ruining your thread. I'm gonna peace out. Cheers.
