Charge cards
 

we have heard that in England and rest of europe they are using a different kind of charge card. some sort of decal that is not on the ones we have in the US.

Has anyone run into a problem using american mastercards or visa's etc.?

thanks

You are most likely referring to the embedded microchip (aka "bug") that is on only a few US cards. It is true that without this chip your card may not work in some self service machines, but at point of purchase the clerk can manually enter the numbers and it will work just fine.

I live in England and have an American Mastercard. Not a problem there, or anywhere else in Europe, from my experience. :-)

Just returned from the UK and Portugal. I found an increasing number of requests to enter my pin number at restaurants and stores, but that could be done without revealing it, and was no problem.

The only difficulty was using credit cards at gas pumps and toll booths. In each of those locations, I had to deal with an attendant. If you are driving, do not enter a booth with a credit card only symbol and you will be OK.

pin number? that is the number if you want to get cash from your card?

we never use our cards that way. have bank atm cards for cash.

guess we better check what the pins are?

Pin numbers for credit cards are just another level of security. You will not get cash back unless you are using your credit card in an ATM machine. We are just back from Spain and our Capitol One card worked fine everywhere. The only time we had problems with our cards have been automatic ticket machines but they were marked and older machine were available -- sometimes with a line of American tourists.

What is being referred to is a new type of way of carrying out a credit card purchase transaction called chip and pin.

There is a chip in this type of credit card. The card is inserted into the card reader and the pin is embedded within the chip. It is not the same thing as when one is asked for a pin with an old fashioned magnetic strp card at an ATM. There the pin is not embedded within the card but rather it is transmitted to the bank and then the decision is made to go ahead with the cash advance.

This was supposed to make credit card fraud a thing of the past. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked all that well because much of the big credit card fraud is via the internet which chip and pin does nothing to prevent.

The American banks have, and this is what I think, not done anything to introduce chip and pin. They feel they make so much money on credit card transactions that they're willing to accept a bit of fraud. Besides the amount they lose due to fraud is far less than the cost to change terminals and issue chip and pin cards. Therefore American credit cards are almost 100% non chip and pin and still use the ancient magnetic strip. Pins are not necessary for purchases with this kind of card.

When I'm in England, I go into some shops where the bird brained clerks, despite the fact the card does not have a chip insist on sticking the card into the chip and pin reader first no matter what thus ruining the signature stip. And no amount of telling these jerks keep them from doing this.

Let me make this clear. Non chip and pin old fashioned US credit cards with a magnetic strip are 100% valid in the UK and most other places with the possible exception of unmanned (or unwomanned) self service petrol stations. Sometimes in rural areas the clerks are unaware of this and have to be told or shown or their supervisors have to be told.

Also I have noticed that in the UK, merchants always check the signature on the credit card slip against the signature on the card. They almost never do in the USA. In almost every case in the USA, you swipe the card, put it in your pocket and either sign the screen of the terminal or sign the charge slip. Also in many fast food places in the USA, they don't even bother to have you sign the charge slip if the charge is under a certain amount.

Finally, on a couple of occassions on my last trip to the UK last week, I was asked to produce ID when I used my non chip and pin credit card. This is an absolute violation of mastercard regulations. They are not allowed to ask for additional identification if the signature matches.

Now you might think this is a sensible protection as the clerk at the store explained. ID theft rings act on the basis of acquiring information about you. Should a credit card number be compromised, yes it's a big disconcerting but a phone call or two, the fraudulent charges are removed, a new card issued, you notify those making automatic withdrawals and life goes on. But if in addition to a credit card number, they steal other ID say a driver's license number and that can lead to real trouble as they can then get other info about you such as address, car type etc. Under no circumstances is a merchant allowed to ask for other identification when using a credit card and one should never show any other id. One should firmly tell the merchant to check their agreement with mastercard (or visa) which prohibits asking for other identification for use of a credit card.

But I will say this. There is one aspect of the chip and pin system I do like. In those countries with chip and pin in a restaurant, they bring the credit card terminal to your table and carry out the transaction in front of you. None of this taking the credit card to some back room where it can be cloned and then the slip brought to you. This should become a standard part of credit card processing in backward areas such as the United States and that would protect consumers.

We live in England and have US Mastercards. We don't use them as a debit card or for getting cash back so we never have to give a pin number. We've gotten used to saying "There's no chip in this card. You'll need to swipe it." and we've never been turned down or had a problem.

"Also I have noticed that in the UK, merchants always check the signature on the credit card slip against the signature on the card. They almost never do in the USA. In almost every case in the USA, you swipe the card, put it in your pocket and either sign the screen of the terminal or sign the charge slip. Also in many fast food places in the USA, they don't even bother to have you sign the charge slip if the charge is under a certain amount.

Finally, on a couple of occassions on my last trip to the UK last week, I was asked to produce ID when I used my non chip and pin credit card. This is an absolute violation of mastercard regulations. They are not allowed to ask for additional identification if the signature matches."

Both of those are because since chip-and-pin was introduced, the burden of fraud now falls on the merchant rather than the credit card issuer.

don't worry about the PIN. US-issued credit cards are not "chip and PIN", so they will run your charge slightly differently than they will w/ a Europe-issued card. Then you will sign a charge slip just like at home.

But not to worry - except at some self service machines like train ticket kiosks, you will be fine. Just step across to the staffed ticket window and use your card there.

Even though we have Chip and Pin credit cards here in NL very few retailers have switched to using them yet. We still swipe and sign for most things.
We are also often asked for extra ID. I don't have a problem with that. No idea whether it is allowed or not under the rules here - I imagine every country has different agreements between the card company and the retailer. I can't see it is worth making a huge fuss about it - just show some photo ID and be done with it. they don't note it down or anything after all.

In NL chip and PIN are required at many train station ticket machines and at least some train station lock boxes. Some restaurants are using C&P. Very handy IMO. It works about the same as a debit/ATM card in the USA as far as I can see. I don't know if a USA debit card would work in lieu of a C&P card in Europe. Didn't try it at any store.

No Spaarne, NS ticket machines do not take credit cards, any kind of credit cards, Dutch, US, Martian, swipe and sign or Chip and Pin. What they take are debit cards with a PIN number or a Chipknip which is an electronic purse.

Apologies, it seems that the major cities now have machines that take credit cards. My local station still doesn't. At least it didn't last Tuesday.
All public transport is going over to a single Oyster type card later this year anyway, which should cause complete confusion.

Now further confuse - the NS site says in English the machines accept credit cards, but in Dutch that they don't. I would assume in that case that they don't - something may have been lost in translation.
If you look at the demo it does not include a credit card option.
Sorry Joanel to have gone off topic!

xyz123...

Since I often/always have to show my ID with credit card purchases in Spain, I googled a bit and found one online travel guide saying it is a legal requirement. I cannot produce any more official proof of this.

http://gospain.about.com/od/beforeyo...ents_spain.htm

If that is true, Visa's terms do not apply, obviously, where local laws say otherwise.

Unlike in previous years, our Visa card did not work in the autoroute toll booths. The card also does not work at gas pumps--you quickly learn to get gas only when the attendant booth is open.

On the other hand, the card works at exits in some parking lots when it does not work at the automatic machines for paying before you go to your car.

I did a google search:

Requiring ID to use a credit card

Hundreds of article came up and the gist was that while it is not illegal to request ID by a merchant before accepting a credit card, a merchant, according to their contract with Mc may not refuse a transaction if a customer fails to produce ID.

Now whether this only applies in the United States is not clear.

It still doesn't change the fact that by forcing me to show other ID to use my credit card, it is increasing my suseptibility to ID theft. Much ID theft occurs when crooks clerks steal information about customers and pass it along to the vermin running these ID theft rings, in places like Nigeria and Eastern Europe. I don't know why people would be so willing to allow anybody else to see their passport number or driver's license number which can be used to steal their identity.

Having a credit card number compromised, and it has happened to me over the years about 3 times, is most asuredly a bit disconcerting. In each case, I notified the credit card company. They sent me a form to indicate which carges were fraudulent. They were removed from the account. A new card was issued with a different number. It took oh about 15 minutes to resolve it. The hardest part, although it was all done by the internet, was changing the credit card numbers with those such as my cable televison provider, the phone company, the mobile phone company, to change the credit card numbers they used to pay my bills. that took about 30 minutes. Within an hour, it was a thing of the past.

However, in each case, all they stole was a credit card number. They did not steal my identity which is much much much more difficult to deal with which can be done if they can get a hold of say a driver's license number.

It is for this reason that I will not show identification to use my credit cards and have in my wallet the applicable part of the credit card agreement requiring merchants accept credit card transaction even if the customer refuses to show other id provided the signatures match.

Incidentally there are some who think they're very smart and instead of signing the back of the card write check ID. That invalidates the credit card of course. But then again, at least in the United States, nobody checks signatures on 99% of credit card transactions.

No, hetismij. I did not write that the train ticket machines take credit cards. The ones in Haarlem take C&P cards, including my ABN-AMRO Wereldpas with the little copper spider known as the chip. I bought my train tickets in Holland with this card at ticket machines. Tickets cost half a euro more at the ticket windows. A few ticket machines accept euro coins.

The only place I had a problem was in a Metro station in Paris.