IMDonehere

Most people used to enjoy travel, there was a sense of adventure, of fun, of discovery.

Now travel has taken on the false sense of sophistication that accompanies wine snobs. The words must be right and pleasure must be confined to self-imposed limitations.

Now the language must be right, the itinerary must be correct, which hotels, which restaurants, as if people were going to be given a grade when they returned.

This is evidenced by the questions and the trip reports. Questions that seem tentative, not because they are inexperienced but in fear of being seen as inexperienced. And 99% of the trip reports sound like they are going to the accounting department for reimbursement rather than a sense of adventure, fun, discovery.

It is indicative of how business works intrudes on people's lives and people are afraid of making a mistake or caring what others think

tuscanlifeedit

Thank heaven that you're above all that.

IMDonehere

I am glad you noticed.

kja

I still travel to see what I've always wanted to see in person, to have fun while doing so, and to experience moments of "discovery" along the way (no matter how well researched my trips).

No matter how much research I do (and I do a LOT) I consider myself incredibly fortunate to learn about all sorts of opportunities from Fodorites who have gone before me. My sincere thanks to all of you who have helped me plan my trips, and to all of you who so generously share your time to share your insights and observation with others!

While it might sadden me to realize that some others are just checking off lists, that's their call. IMO. we can direct them to useful resources, but because we can NOT say what any one else will like, we can't plan their time or criticize their choices. JMO.

So the 1st bit of good news, from my perspective, is that many people thoroughly enjoy their trips, whether their plans are what Fodorites did / did not recommend.

The really good news? -- we can ignore any post we choose to ignore!

swandav2000

Hi,

Well, for me and my family it was *always* about planning, planning, planning, and making the most of our limited time and money.

We lived in Saudi Arabia, and we got 3 months of vacation every other year -- this was in the 1950s and 1960s. My father used to have stacks of guidebooks and had them practically memorized. He would plot our course meticulously and pore over the hotel reviews and descriptions carefully. There wasn't one day that wasn't planned to the hour.

We used a variety of hotels, from posh places with white-gloved bellboys to family-run pensions with shared bathrooms.

To this day, I still love the planning, when I can imagine myself doing my activities and enjoying the hotel room's views. It's all part of the trip.

I like it. That doesn't mean there's no joy, for goodness sake, or no discovery. Things do go wrong, even when things are planned to the hour, and serendipity finds you no matter what you've planned.

s

swandav2000

I should say that I mentioned Saudi Arabia to show that there were no travel agents -- competent or not -- within a phone call. We were totally isolated, aside from the guide books my father ordered and kept.

Also I mentioned the year to show that, obviously, no internet then. No email.

s

flanneruk

"Now travel has taken on the false sense of sophistication that accompanies wine snobs. "

What complete nonsense.

Nonsense that, in the era of Ryanair, Courte Paille and chains like Campanile and Formule 1 there's any sense of sophistication.

Nonsense that "fake" sophistication is somehow inferior to real, authentic, USDA-certified sophistication

And nonsense to pretend there was some golden age when travel was different (in any other way than it cost more and was more likely to get you killed) from today.

When might that golden age have been?

When pilgrims walked (and got robbed) along the Via Francigena?
When a few hundred toffs on the Grand Tour made up the sum total of all global tourism?
When a few thousand English and Germans demonstrated their superior classical education to Italians and Greeks?
Or in the days Pan Am's gloved and hatted stewardesses carved beef on grotesquely overpriced, gas-guzzling, smoke-filled death traps?

There are just three significant differences between travel (anywhere, but especially in Europe) today and thirty years ago:
- it costs a lot less
- far more people are doing it
- and far more of them aren't Yanks. Many - horror of horrors - aren't white or Protestant, either.

Which of these are you really moaning about?

IMDonehere

I am moaning the fact that 95% of the posts here are devoid of joy, humor, adventure, and discovery. That travel has taken the same controlled aspects of life as setting up play dates for kids and more and more people use the vapid terms of business to describe their trips. For many it needs to be more of an accomplishment than anything else.

As noted above most seem to think they will be graded at the end of their trip.

I did not hint at any your tortured examples.

Blueeyedcod

Interesting points you have raised. I think it is the medium of communication and the editing of self and experiences that have perhaps changed the way people tell about their travel. Many years ago I had a lousy trip to Tahiti but the only people who heard about that were my family and friends - no internet back then.
As for people's joy, humour and adventure - I see lots of that on travel forums - try reading others. There was one on Trip Advisor recently where the OP told of her overwhelming emotion on exiting the SL train station and seeing the Grand Canal for the first time. Her passion and joy was clear and evident.
Which brings me to this point - not everyone is Alain de Botton and for some, it may be a struggle for them to 'show' rather than 'tell'. Their trip reports may read 'I ate here, I shopped here and this guy drove me here' - not really their fault - just not highly skilled in creating a top travel narrative.

hetismij2

I think it is just the nature of this forum.

Some people come here with the need to account for every second of their precious 10 day trip. If you don't get much annual leave then understandably you want to make the most of what you have. However they don't seem to factor in any vital "downtime" for watching life, doing not a lot, or going off plan.
Given some of the responses (and yes I am guilty of this too) people get to questions posted here it is no wonder they seem nervous about asking them.


The trip reports tend to fall in to two categories - one is the where we stayed and what we ate in great detail type, and the other the travelogue type, which do include joy, humour and adventure. Neither is right, or wrong, they are what they are.

I admit we did more planning than we usually do for our trip to California last year, but we still had plenty of chances for serendipity, and for making mistakes (and we made a few!). I didn't write a trip report on it - 5 weeks is a lot of travelling to condense into a readable report.

There are plenty of people out there enjoying their travelling in their own way. For some that is the itinerary that reads like a death march, for others it is baking on a beach for a week, and for others it is going somewhere and seeing what they can find when they get there.

Nikki

"I am moaning the fact that 95% of the posts here are devoid of joy, humor, adventure, and discovery"

I must be reading a different website. I find lots of joy and humor in the trip reports I read, and I know I feel it in the trips I take and write about. I think if you can't find joy, humor, adventure, and discovery in the accounts of people's travels here, you are reading with a joyless eye.

isabel

I totally agree with what Nikki just said (hi Nikki). I see lots of joy in the posts here, including the planning ones, not just the travel reports. You can just feel the excitement in some peoples questions as they plan their great adventure. Sure some are about train schedules and restaurants but people need help with the logistics, doesn't mean they aren't planning to (and don't have) fun.

bilboburgler

I see a lot of joy, fun and shear adventure in both the trip reports and the whole question/discussion issues. Maybe the different views of these are due to different perceptions ;-)

The 2 things I don't understand are:

1) the term "snarky" that is often used. It is not a word I really understand and often I see the accusation and I read back to see what the problem is and find nothing

2) why some people like to say things like "how dare you questions the OP?" or "how can your opinion be different to mine" these just seem weird.

Maybe I get confused too easily but, after all, we are not sitting an exam ("you will answer only the question asked") but are giving up our time, for free, to try and help the OP. Often the OP asks a question which may call for god-like perception or are due to a complete missunderstanding of the situation on the ground. For example "what will the weather be like" or "I want to see as much of the UK as possible in 5 days and I will hire a car, basing in central London and my son wants to see Hadrian's wall and Bath on Tuesday, is Hertz the right supplier".

Have a great day.

kja

When I first joined Fodor's (2006), I was decidedly intimidated by those who were then, as I understood it, the "regulars," many of whom were quite explicit in asserting a preference for a way of traveling that was (and is) not mine. I wanted the input of Fodorites, but was terrified of being honest because I didn't want to be attacked (and yes, that IS what I expected). But I didn't want to be dishonest either, so I edited and edited and edited my queries until (if I was successful!) they were stripped of everything that suggested emotional tonality. ("Just the facts, ma'am.") Although it was not my primary goal, I'm sure those messages were as devoid of emotion as I could have possibly made them. I wonder if others do that now?

nytraveler

Sorry - but I think you are confusing the posts here with the travel that a gazillion people are doing all over the world. Granted some sophisticated but a lot casual - or dare I say it even clueless.

sandralist

Have you ever read Samuel Butler's "The Way of All Flesh" -- ? Butler wrote a hilarious send-up of the prig's "trip report" --- and against all received wiseom -- more than 100 years ago.

http://www.online-literature.com/sam...f-all-flesh/4/

annhig

I am moaning the fact that 95% of the posts here are devoid of joy, humor, adventure, and discovery>>

like Nikki I'm struggling to recognise this description of what I read here. I have read and enjoyed many TRs this year - and if they weren't fun I can tell you I wouldn't bother.

frankly, IMDonehere the clue may be in your name - you don't have to read anything if you don't want to; like the YV, fodors has an off button.

sandralist

sorry for the typo -- I meant to write that Butler wrote funny snark against all received wisdom -- including received travel wisdom.

annhig

oops - the TV, obviously.

tuscanlifeedit

>I am moaning the fact that 95% of the posts here are devoid of joy, humor, adventure, and discovery. <

Unlike IDH, I occasionally find all these things in posts here.

But those aren't exactly the reason I visit this forum. I'm lucky enough to live during the democratization of travel. I love European art and history and food. I come here to get information on those things and to plan how to maximize my limited travel time and budget.

Many of us are middle class and working class. We take adventure seriously enough, but when we're spending the few bits of money and days off that we save, we went to get the most out of them. Plans and checklists don't preclude adventure or joy or spontaneity.

I think that this must be a very hard concept for someone with lots of time and perhaps a healthy travel budget to
understand.

Europe isn't exactly the epicenter of adventure travel, anyway. Check out Peru or Cambodia.