My girlfriend and I will be traveling to Frankfurt, Paris, and Munich in December. We were originally going to rent a car for the entire trip but.... Based on some feedback I received earlier today in this forum, I think we might buy a Eurail France/Germany pass instead. Looks like we will save several dollars and not have the hassle of parking a car (especially in Paris). Because I've never used a rail pass in EUrope before, can anyone offer some input as to how to best utilize these passes? Are only select trains available to ride on? Are times of travel all inclusive? How efficient is the network of trains? Do you need reservations for each train? Do you need to preplan? I've been on the Eurail website but it doesn't seem so intuitive. Thanks again

I suspect PalQ will give you lots of info when he sees your post, but in the interim I would do this:

go to www.railsaver.com and input your proposed itinerary. Be sure to hit the box that says (about passes) "only if it saves me money."

The result should offer a comparison of prices of buying a pass vs. point- to-point tickets.

If the two of you are traveling together at all times there is a pass designed specifically for that which would be more economical than buying two separate passes.

In general passes become more economical the more you use them since they are for use on almost every train.

However, passes do not guarantee you a seat. On some trains which require mandatory reservations you'll have to pay extra for seat reservations (if you get these after arrival it will be cheaper than getting them through some agencies such as RailEurope. Many trains do not require a seat reservation..you simply get on and sit in the class for which the pass is valid (1st or 2nd) and take any unoccupied/reserved seat.

Some trains may require a supplement over and above the pass.

Be aware that there are various agencies out there through which you can buy passes and point-to-point tickets. Tickets are almost always cheaper if you buy them IN Europe since there is no agency mark-up.

However all of those agencies such as BETS (Pal's fave) are dependant upon a computer link supplied by RailEurope although not all agencies charge the same amounts for tickets.

Pass prices are SET by the railroads; it is the additional S+H fees tacked on by those agencies which can also drive up final prices.

People here will often tell you to avoid RailEurope because they feel that RE is a rip-off agency.

Interestingly, RailEurope is a wholly-owned subsidiary of SNCF (French) and the Swiss National Railroad (SBB)..so if anyone is "ripping people off" it is the railroads!










will be

Oops..sorry..should have said you just get on and take any unoccupied/UNreserved seat.

There was some discussion in a recent Fodor's Forum post which you would find of interest.
http://tinyurl.com/ygwduk

For your specific Qs:
Are only select trains available to ride on?
Virtually all trains are available to pass holders.

Are times of travel all inclusive?
?? Explain.

How efficient is the network of trains?
Better than any train or airline in the USA.

Do you need reservations for each train?
There are virtually no trains in Germany which require a reservation. In France all high speed TGV trains require a reservation and that costs €3.00.

Do you need to preplan?
Only if you are traveling on Friday or Sunday or around a major holiday. If your December travel includes Christmas then I would definitely preplan and buy seat reservations.

Since you are doing the major cities and covering a lot of land your choice of trains and a pass is good for comfort and economy.

The international French and German trains are beautiful transportation. For long trips I recommend that you use an overnighter, NachtZug, EuroNight, or CityNightLine. You save a night's hotel bill and travel city center to city center in a bed in your cabine. You must reserve your bunk and pay a supplement which can range between $25 and $45 per person depending on the number of bunks in your cabine and the country you are traveling in.

You've received some good information so far. For even more, read the railpass sections at www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Hi CH,

For two people traveling together you want the Select Pass - 5 days, 3 countries, $325.

If you are under 26, get the Selectpass Youth, 5 days, 4 countries, $250.

You will have to purchase seat reservations and sleeping berths if you want them. High speed trains will require a supplement.

IIRC, in your previous post I gave you the websites for SNCF and Bahn.

Point to point tickets are about the same price as the youth pass and you can buy your tickets online and pick them up at the train station(s).

Bring the same CC that you used to buy the tickets.

We bought France/Germany passes for a trip we took last year. The passes were easy to use and saved us a lot of money.

No major pre-planning was necessary. We bought our tickets as we went along. We did purchase seat reservations on major routes and as required for the faster trains.

One word of caution: when you use a railpass, you need to be aware of the route your train will take. We took the train from Cologne to Paris not realizing that the train route dipped into Belgium. The Belgian conductor was very kind when we proudly produced our France/Germany railpass, but did charge us for the Belgian portion of the trip.

had to smile, Reenie - same happened to us 6-7 yrs ago on a leg between Munich & Milan... dear wife, in her haste to arrange a scenic route through the alps, put us on a train that ran though Austria (not covered on our Pass) and not-so-scenic, either! ;-) Sleeper cars were reservation only (VERY advance reservation, it seemed, around Easter), and we lost out on 1st Class treatment by "winging it" on departure times on the route through Nice and on to Madrid. Book ahead if you've paid for the extra benefits- they're worth it!

With that itinerary you should fly into Munich and fly home from Paris.
Frankfurt is in the middle, first you will zig to Munich, then zag to Paris, then what? Back to Frankfurt, just to go pick up a plane home? Makes no sense.

Save that zig-zag double-tracking money and fly as indicated, then you won't need a railpass, either, just point-to-point tix - Munich to FRA, FRA to Paris.

Even if the flight costs a bit more that way or if there is a change fee, you are still likely to come out way ahead, not to mention the waste of precious vacation time if you double-track like it sounds you are about to do.

Dukey has given excellent answers to your questions. For novice type train travelers with such questions i do indeed suggest getting BETS free European Planning & Rail Guide (at www.budgeteuropetravel.com) as it will answer these type questions and many more. I also always refer folks like you to www.ricksteves.com whose web sight has excellent info on railpasses as well as alternatives to them.

Nearly no trains in Germany require reservations but many in France do, a hassle there. As this pass costs very little comparatively over the 2nd class form i'd suggest going first class to insure more available seats on trains where reservations are required or in Germany as there are significantly more empty seats usually in first class.

I don't intend to buy one, but can those who know a lot about these comment on Ira's statement that you have you pay a supplement for high-speed trains with this pass. I had a France railpass once and never paid a supplement when using it on TGVs.

No TGVs require a reservation fee only - 3 euros in France. Trains like Thalys, Italy's Eurostar, Spain's AVE, Euromed and others require a supplement - a payment that includes a seat reservation but also charges for other services aboard - typically in first class some beverage and food - whether you call it a supplement or a reservation fee is up for debate but supplements generally mean it's a premium train that to use with a railpass you may have to pay $10-30 depending on class. The only supplement trains i know of are: Thalys, Italy-Eurostar and IC+, Spain - AVE, EuroMed, Altaria, Barcelona-Madrid new high-speed and Germany - ICE Sprinters (very few of these) - Swiss specialty trains like Glacier Express and Bernina Express also charge a small supplement.
There may have been some i've forgot.

London-Paris/Brussels Eurostar trains would also have a special passholder fare for passes valid in any of the three countries.