"If we played yank sports, for example, we would probably play as the UK."

Ha! Not so!

http://www.englandbasketball.co.uk/

Ok… More accurately….If we gave a stuff about yank sports and didn’t think of them as games for small children and schoolgirls… and wanted to be taken seriously we would play as the UK.

There were some American football teams over here a while ago – wasn’t one of them called something like the Scottish Claymores (or deep fried pies or The Broons or something typically Scottish)

There was an English one that played at White Hart Lane too, but I have no idea what they were called. The Stiff Upper Lips? The Bowler Hats? The Class System?

It seems that sooner or probably later, because of the sentiments regards the constituent parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland expressed here that we assume represent a much larger feeling, the U.K. will indeed break up and then each of the four entities will truly be independent countries - save probably Northern Eire which seems destined to once again become a part of the Republic (capital R) of Ireland. What will happen to the Channel Island and Isle of Mann - that i donnow.

Northern Eire?

The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands will no doubt remain as they are.
They are not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

By the way, we have seen today that it can be dangerous to wear an England shirt in Scotland
see http://tinyurl.com/q5s3j

Now, English people aren't perfect, but I can't imagine a seven year old being beaten up by an adult for wearing a Scottish shirt or any other nationality for that matter.

Looking forward to watching John Cleese's "Football A to Z" on Sky One (10 pm Tuesday). Perhaps some PBS station in the U.S. will pick it up--I suspect it will be educational and funny.

OFFS! David....

Oxford Dictionary defintion of a nation:-

"a large body of people united by common descent, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular state or territory."

That would be us, then.

I too understand the Barnet formula. And if we weren't subsidising London Underground, we wouldn't need it.

This is a pointless argument….

Can Scotland declare war on anyone? Can England? Is there a Welsh Embassy in Washington?

The “countries” are administrative regions of a greater soverieign state – the UK. Indeed, under this government of clowns, panderers, mountebanks and philanderers, it could be argued that the UK is increasingly not a country but an administrative region of the EU.

Put it this way – if you belong to an organisation who’s laws take precedence over your own, where the highest court of appeal isn’t your own, then maybe you’re not really a country at all.

Discuss.

And Shielah, the Barnet Formula is what keeps those north of the border in supplies of square sausage and purple tin.

Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?

One of Canon Chasuble's cousins is a GP in Scotland and he was very against devolution, calling it "The Braveheart Vote".
He made the point that the NHS in Scotland benefitted greatly from the Barnet Formula and he was worried that pressure from the English regions would put an end to it.
Personally, I think that while the Labour Party relies so heavily on Scottish votes, it won't happen yet.

I too was shocked at the attack on the seven year old.
I have been married to the good Canon for nearly 40 years and have been visiting Scotland every year since our marriage.
There does seem to be a nasty anti-English element creeping in with some Scots. You feel like reminding them that Edward 1st has been dead for centuries.

I have been called an “English bastard” too many times to count in Scotland. And I’m a large, aggressive looking, English bastard!

The level of anti-English sentiment in parts of Scotland is quite shocking. The reverse simply doesn’t happen. Them sweatties need to get over themselves. It is not the fault of the English that they are all on the purple tin.

Perhaps this is a debate that needs to go elsewhere...

I like the think of the UK as a 'family' of countries - as siblings, we sometimes get on each other's nerves, but have more in common than we sometimes like to admit and in the end, rub along together reasonably well. Any random nutter who bashes a 7 year old really isn't reflective of a national trait.

Kate, I beg to differ. I have a foot in both camps as half of my family are Scots. They themselves are (naturally) beacons of tolerance etc. But they live in West Scotland, and the level of anti-English feeling there is very strong indeed. They don’t live in tourist areas and as such we English aren’t that common a sight. So my accent marks me out. I have faced overt aggression for the crime of simply being English (I can pass for a jock if I want – and on occasion have felt that it was the better part of valour to do so)

Whilst it may be amusing to see a bunch of jocks in Trinidad tops, in fact it is a symptom of a deep lying hatred, which if it were expressed against any other country or people would be seen for what it really is.

It is long past sporting rivalry. It is a malaise through Scottish society that they really need to deal with.

By the way, the Basque football team does exist, and competes several times a year in non-official matches against national teams (first time back as far as 1934, I think). There is also a strong current here in favour of having a national team, but as per today, the only national team in Spain is the Spanish one.

"The level of anti-English sentiment in parts of Scotland is quite shocking. The reverse simply doesn’t happen."

Um, you refer to Scottish people as sweatties and jocks and indirectly as alcoholics, and then act surprised when someone expresses anti-English sentiment towards you? I know you were being funny but still, it's hardly the kind of vocabulary that's going to win you new friends!!

I have to say that I don't condone the kind of stupid, blind anti-English sentiment (and certainly not violence) that's rife in parts of Scotland. I've experienced it too - and I'm not even English, I just don't have a strong Scottish accent. Some people are just ignorant.

That said, when I was growing up I definitely felt a sense of Scotland being considered unimportant and somehow "inferior" to England. The "British" media always seemed to tbe the worst culprits. No acknowledgement of the fact that education and legal systems are different in Scotland, presentation of English-related events as if they were relevant to the whole of the UK, etc. It really used to get on my nerves.

It sounds silly, but as a kid I used to get really annoyed that there were never any daytime TV programmes for children during the summer holidays until the English schools had broken up (four weeks after we did). Or that the special revision and exam helplines were never available for Scottish pupils (who take their exams a month earlier), etc. Just wee things, but as a kid it used to really annoy me that England was seen as more important and I used to get quite upset about it!!!

If you think that there's no anti-Scottish feeling in England you must be living in cloud cookooland.
If you glance at right-wing middle-England papers like the Daily Mail and the Telegraph you'll find that they're full of anti-Scottish sentiment. Personally, I feel that the Unionist press are terrified that the concept of Great Britain means less and less to fewer people these days and that the end of this irrelevant political union, while maybe not just around the corner, is certainly in sight.
Scots may have historically voted for a Labour (and therefore Unionist) government, but Tony Blair is hated at an almost Thatcher-like level north of the border, and the SNP are ready and waiting to pick up these voters.
His ill-advised and politically motivated attacks on Scots for not supporting the 'UK' team in the world cup show him up for the fool he is, and highlight his lack of knowledge of the Scottish psyche.
Fact is, there would be a far, far healthier relationship between Scotland and ngland if either one or both were independent than there is now in this union that has little or no value in a modern day Europe.

A Scotsman in England (never mind a Scottish child) will not be attacked for daring to be Scottish. Sadly the reverse is not the case north of the border.

You know as well as I do that it's racism pure and simple, and any amount of weasel words won't hide the fact.

I can see that the coverage of events in London over Edinburgh could gall a bit - but in stating this you are making the perpetual error that the Scots always make - they think that they are on a par with England. They aren't. This isn't about who's best - it's about reality. If Scotland were an independent country it would matter less than Norway or Ireland. ie It would be a sort of English-speaking Estonia. Not that there's anything wrong in being a small country, but let's not pretend that the reality would be any different. England is bigger, therefore more important and as such sets the news agenda etc. I suppose this is how the Canadians feel but on a smaller scale.

More people live in London than in the whole of Scotland. That means that what happens in London is more important than what happens elsewhere. Sorry - but it's true. That's also why there's a lot of resentment at the over-representation of Scots in the current government (and is also why I think that Gordon Brown will lead labour to defeat - the English have had enough).

As I say I have Scottish realtives, and even they are unhappy at the level of anti-English bigotry that goes on up there.

And if the Scots can't cope with being told that they've got rotten diets and an over fondness for alfresco drinking of purple tin , then they should form an allliance of the thin-skinned with the scousers.

LOL

You'll have to use a bigger bait than that the next time you go out fishing.
Maybe you should take up morris dancing instead ?

I tried Morris dancing once (I am fat, bald bearded and with a fondness for folk music – so it’s compulsory). It’s bloody tiring I can tell you, and I kept getting hit on the fingers by the sticks.

I’ll stick to highland dancing instead. Or maybe drinking purple tin in the park and get in touch with my scottish side.

David west, of course London gets more coverage than Edinburgh and yes I'm aware of the population differences.
If you read my previous post you'll see that I said I don't condone the kind of anti-English attitudes you're referring to, having experienced something similar myself (we're talking severe bullying here, simply because my accent wasn't "Scottish enough&quot.

I'm used to the London-oriented news coverage these days and don't have a particular problem with it, especially as I no longer reside in the UK. In my previous post I was just making attempts to explain why, as a child, I felt that the situation was unfair. It's easy for people to grow up feeling marginalised and resentful, to the extent that they never question their reasoning and turn that resentment into hatred, snobbery, racism, whatever.

Meanwhile, I've long since understood that there are far worse things in the world for me to worry about.

Well...the one comment above about a sovereign country not being subservient to a legal system not their own...the EU... means that if Wales and Scotland break away and become independent there will be little effective change as they all will be EU members and thus all subject to the same rules of those nasty Beaurocrats of Brussels - in effect they will all be one country again...as the EU continually expands its role from a confederation to a true single Europe.

I am as appalled as the next man at the displays of racism which have taken place. There's no excuse, at any level, but especially not for the violence.

If I could be bothered, I'd take huge offence at some of your stuff, David, and frankly, if you were reading it from this side of the Border some of the antipathy might be more understandable.