PalQ

Why is it England competing in World Cup football instead of it being the U.K. team?
I know Wales and Scotland have their own teams but why?
If it's because Wales and Scotland have some degree of autonomy what about Catalonia, the Basque country... why don't they have their own teams? What about Corsica or France's Alsace - why don't they have their own teams? I believe Scotland and Wales each have had their own 'national' football teams way before the Devolution issue became law in the U.K. in the past few decades whereas Scotland and Wales have their own Parliaments - so this could not be the reason originally Scotland and Wales became separate entities in the soccer world.
Why don't Scotland or Wales compete as national teams in the Olympics?
What about Northern Ireland - do they have their own team or do they play with the Irish team?
What about Channel islands and Isle of Mann - do they have their own teams
Why isn't it just a U.K. national team? Can someone kindly explain how it developed that the U.K. has at least three separate teams?

orbiting

the basic reason is , apart from the fact that it always been like this, is that as the name untied kindgdom applies, we are all separate countries, united under one crown,which is why we all compete separately. (apart from in the olympic games) catalunia and the pais basco are not separeate countries, although the teams like atheltico bilboa have made it a rule to only have basque players .

lobo_mau

Historical reasons. There was competition between British nations before any other international games.

Alec

Short answer is that England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland all have separate membership of FIFA (football's world govering body), whereas UK's representation on IOC is as Great Britain (which in this case inclucludes NI).
The reason for this is historical. As the birthplace of football (soccer), there have always been separate football associations for countries in the UK, and when FIFA was formed in 1904, those separate country FAs simply joined (in 1906). For other countries, there never was a Basque or Catalan FA separate from Spanish FA, so the whole of Spain compete under the Spanish flag. When Germany was reunited, the former separate West German (DFB - FIFA member since 1904) and East German (DFV - in FIFA since 1952) FAs joined to form united DFB, and since then only one representation from Germany. When Czech and Slovak Republics separated, the former Czechoslovakian FA too was divided and they now have separate membership of FIFA.

Alec

Channel Islands and Isle of Man don't have separate membership of UEFA (European governing body) or FIFA, so they don't compete as such. Neither do they belong to IOC, and CI or Manx athletes usually compete as part of GB team. In the Commonwealth Games (formerly British Empire Games), CI and IOM have separate representations and send their own teams.

hsv

Alec is spot on, of course.

Just wanted to add that for the same reason Serbia and Montenegro still participate with one team, despite the people just having voted to separate the country.

Alec

Yes, but this will be the last time.

Alec

I may add this separtae representations for England, Scotland etc isn't without criticism from other member countries, and there have been attempts to restrict UK's representation on international football. This is one of the reasons why the FA has been against sending a Great Britain team to the Olympic football tournament, as it may send a wrond signal about reopening the question of separate FIFA membership.

hsv

Alec,

I know.

And the thought of a united U.K. FA is rather scary for me as it might very well strengthen the potential of the team considerably. And that despite the fact that I strongly believe in England to win this year's World Cup

willit

The above posts are correct, but it should also be considered that Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own football leagues as well, and play within UEFA as seperate countries, so the Champions of Scotland (Celtic or Rangers normally) will play in the Champions league.

Wales is more problematic, as the major Welsh sides (Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham) all play in the English league - probably for historical reasons. There is a seperate "League of Wales" and the champions of that would represent Wales in UEFA.

It might be a little bit of an exageration, but a UK team at present would probably consist of 10 Englishmen and Craig Bellamy.

PalQ

Alec: impressive and appreciated explanation of situation. Thanks. One thing not totally clear - you and others say that there is no Great Britain team that goes to the Olympics for football - does this mean that to represent the U K in football in the Olympics that the Scottish, NIre, Welsh and English teams compete to see who represents GB? thanks.

Alec

Normally, representation at the Olympics is left to the individual sport's governing body, but in case of football there are four for UK! So to produce a GB team, the four FAs would have to agree, and should it ever see the light of day, the team would probably be selected from among top internationals in four associations. With the reluctance of English FA for a united GB team, there seems little likelihood of becoming a reality. But with 2012 Olympics in London, the birthplace of football, who knows?

hopscotch

orbiting,

Was that a deliberate -- untied kingdom? I'm laughing.

walkinaround

...and at the same time the government seriously wonders why there is no patriotism for the united kingdom.

GalavantingReprobate

You guys gotta fold all the national teams and create an EU team, representing the whole EU with a single team. Aint fair I tell ya

PalQ

Alec: Am i understanding correct that the UK does not compete in Olympic football a'tall? If they do how is the team selected? My impression now, from yours and other posts is that the UK does not send any team to the Olympics, which seems weird for the nation that apparently is the birth place of football!

david_west

You’ll regret asking this you know….

The reason that there are four home countries (bear in mind it was originally just “Ireland” rather than two teams) is ‘cos we invented footie and as such we were playing ourselves long before the rest of the world got a look in (I believe that England v Scotland at footy is the oldest continuing international in any sport – happy to be corrected)

This position of being first meant that we basically wrote the rule book, and everyone else tagged along, so by the time the rest of the world were up to fielding international sides it was an established fact that we had four.

The rules committee of FIFA is still made up of the home nations and we have a veto on any rule changes.

There was some talk of us putting in a UK team into the London Olympics, but that’s dead in the water now (the Olympics is an under 23 competition BTW). We have never entered the Olympics and I can’t imagine we ever will now.

People from the Isle of Man can play for England; people from the Channel Islands have a choice of all four home nations or France. There have been two Channel Islanders who have played for England recently – The criminally ignored Le Tissier and the Guardian reading, art gallery attending Graham Le Saux.

Mucky

Why have 1 rubbish side when we can have 4....simple..


Muck

PalQ

David: au contraire - i find all this fascinating and completely new to me - the intricacies of UK footballing.

One more question please! Back to the World Cup - does the UK only get one team in or could Scotland, Wales, NIre also qualify or is it restricted to one team from UK. It seems this year only one team, England, qualified but could more than one qualify - in fact i don't even know how the qualifiers were selected - were there matches before that decided who qualifies or is it done on invitation basis as to rankings, etc.
I still don't understand how England was qualified - did they beat Scotland or Wales in qualifying matches or were just selected on basis of committee decisions?
Could there ever be say an England-Scotland final in World Cup or even a match?
Thanks - i find this very interesting and am rooting strongly for England, after the U.S. of course who it seems will be lucky to advance to the knock-out next round!

willit

All 4 home nations compete as seperate entities. They compte as any other team. In the last world cup qualification it was strange that England, Wales, Northern Irelan all ended up in the same qualifying group.

In 1958 all 4 home nations qualified for the finals of the world cup.