Hi, Planning ahead in re a “rough draft” of my packing plans. Will be in Malaga, Granada, Seville, Cordoba, and Madrid (in that order), Nov 20-Dec 5. With all of the caveats about the weather not being predictable, and the wisdom of waiting until 4 or 5 days before departure to check weather forecasts (which I will do), I’d nonetheless welcome any sense re a few key packing parameters at this point in connection w/some essential categories. Jackets: I’m thinking of a light short down zip sweater with a hood and light gloves for Madrid and for evenings/early mornings in Granada and Cordoba. For the warmer destinations: something much lighter and less wintry feeling/looking—either a cotton or a wool cardigan or blazer, an unlined above the knee trench coat or nylon wind breaker, or a light leather jacket. Is something from my warmer weather destination jacket list likely to be about right for the warmer weather destinations? (I’d take just one piece in this category.) Footwear (always very comfortable, water resistant, two shoes max): ankle boots and one slip on shoe (which would be either a slip on loafer or a dressyish sneaker type shoe)? Sweaters: a mixture of cotton, light wool, and one heavy weight wool sweater? The other kinds of pieces that I surely will bring feel clearer to me and will be drawn from my always pack staples (e.g., umbrella; light wool shawl, some knits that I can layer, jeans, a pair of nice pants, one or two knit dresses or skirts-perhaps one in light wool jersey and one in cotton jersey). I’m thinking that this trip combines clothing that what would be considered in the US to be what you’d wear in an early NE winter/late fall and a NE US late spring? Hat: I have a down sweater with a hood, so am not planning to bring a knit hat for Madrid/Cordoba/Granada. But wondering if sun is generally strong enough in the warmer parts of the trip at this time of year that I should bring a packable cotton sun hat? Thinking that I’ll throw in a pair of opaque Wolford tights (mentioning brand only because it gives a sense of weight for those here who shop) or a silk stretch legging that can go under jeans if I need a liner in the cooler weather locales at night (though perhaps a pair of thin corduroy jeans style pants instead). I’ve looked at weather data (with all the caveats about it), but thought some sense of how places generally feel and how locals generally dress in this time period is helpful since I like to try to get the seasonal “mood” right. I welcome any thoughts.

studenttobe,
Yes, do pack an umbrella. This week Spain has been hit with storms, rain and wind.

For Andaluc�a in winter, you won't need a cotton sun hat.

I love Wolford tights and live in them in the winter.

Thanks Maribel-very helpful. And a replenish at the Wolford store in the airport is regular pitstop for me, too. Have been following the terrible fallout of storm Ciaran-thanks for the reminder.

I'm getting exited about your trip myself!!

You sounds a lot more stylish than I am (have lots of the "designer" clothing but never seem to wear them and in fact, today am beginning a much needed culling of my own closet!)

But never mind that..Maribel is the expert here but I will say one thing, and I've mentioned this before:

I ALWAYS pack far too much, which means that lately I have had to DHL a carton back to NYC. If I will ever learn is up in the air but I will past on this small bit of experience/advice:

ANYWHERE you go in any of those cities, or any other city, as far as my own personal opinion, you can wear "good" back jeans and a nice top.

Last March for pants, I took along, as I remember:

Pair of white jeans which I never wore in Andalucia or Madrid.
Pair of black Lululemon pants which look sort of dressy believe it or not, due to the somewhat shiny patterned black-on-black fabric. Never wore.
Pair black Rag and Bone jeans...wore just about every night.
Pair Rag and Bone blue denim jeans..wore on plane and a few times in Madrid...

So there went 4 pair of pants (trip of about three weeks),, three never or almost never worn. Plus pair of black cotton leggings....wore 2-3 times with long tunic top.

What I did wear in Andalucia, again, if I remember right, was a pair of black Lululemon capri length (not sure if they call them that anymore but basicially they are gym pants but can look just fine with a nice top. Wore those a lot in Jerez, etc, alternating with the black jeans.

Note to self: I did NOT need any other pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope this will help me remember not to overpack. And if you need something,, what could be better than COS or ZARA to replenish???? COs may be only in Madrid but Madrid has several huge Zaras as does Sevilla, and COS has a great store in Madrid as well...

I do not think you need a heavy weight wool sweater but again, Maribel knows best. How about a cool quilted vest for under the rain jacket, or any other jacket?

Two shoes max..do not be an idiot like me! The "fanciest" restaurant I ate in in Andalucia was EL CAMPERO and I took photos of some of the diners; many women (bar area) wore white sneakers, with nice clothing. (Lunch).

Even in Madrid, where I ate in 2 what I guess you would call semi-fancy places for dinner, few diiners dressed up apart from a few men in suits at MANDUCA. Many diners were in blue denim again, with nice tops (I am speaking of MANDUCA DE AZAGRA and TASQUITE DE ENFRETE here. At TABERNA LAREDO,, anything "nice" would fit right in..nice blue jeans with white blouse, or anything you like. MANY people wore sneakers.

By the way, I hiighly recommend both MANDUCA and LAREDO. Whether or not you would like TASQUITA DE ENFRENTE is a question. I did, but you should read up on the reviews written by foreigners (I am assuming, perhaps wrongly that you are not a fluent speaker of Spanish)

So that's my own bit of recent experience. I hope I will come back to this and remind myself, as I do EVERY SINGLE TIME, and then, disregard my own advice. As soon as I open my suitecase in the very first hotel, I already am disgusted with how much "stuff" is inside. I did this in Spain last March, in Sicily in May, and YET AGAIN, in Italy a few months ago. My partner has about had it about that!!!

What's that song with the line"when will they ever learn, when will they ever learn?"""" (Joan Baez maybe????)

Sneakers are IN!
When I walk down the streets in Madrid, most women at least in the past few months are actually wearing sneakers, from Spanish brands, to New Balance, to Adidas Stan Smith, to Converse, to Nike Air Force 1�07, to you name it. I feel underdressed in my Paul Green slippers/ loafers, so I bought Paul Green sneakers to keep up, as Paul Green is my go-to for comfort because I used to buy them at my local Nordstrom (having lived in Seattle until now)
https://www.paul-green.com/en/shoes/slippers-loafers

Cute ankle rain boots are now in fashion given the storms that we've had.
And for "dress up", bailarinas, also for comfort.
https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencial...modas_3727071/

I don't think you need heavy weight sweaters either. What I think you will need is a waterproof coat, such as a North Face full length, but lighter weight.
Last December I used only my NF lighter weight coat with hood but I also have a heavier one that I only use here when it's really, really cold in late Dec. or Jan/Feb.

Layers, layers, layers and a fashionable very long wool scarf and a pair of gloves just in case (but I actually think that in Nov. you'll never, ever use the gloves, but take them just in case).
Don't leave home without an extra long foulard, or buy one here!

I spent most of late February in Andaluc�a with just my light weight NF coat w/hood and EF wool foulard and never used my gloves, and when I hit a very sunny Sevilla day I just wore my quilted NF light weight quilted sleeveless vest (plus jeans or corduroys or EF black crepe pants), but then again, who knows what's in store this year!

Oh my gosh EKS and Maribel!!!! I will be studying what you took the time to write late tonight or early tomorrow morning. I am just rushing to an event now that will have me away from electronics til bed. But I did a quick read and WOW!!! So much there that is so interesting to me. And frankly I LOVE talking clothes, food, packing -- all of it. So this is like a giant box of bon bons. I can't wait to dip back in. Also, extremely practical suggestions---a million thanks. Your interventions are extremely well timed and give me clear guidance on the "mood" and some very specific things to bring (and others not to bring). A real raincoat was not on my agenda--many thanks for flagging so clearly. Great suggestion on a light puffer vest...so much more to say. I was so struck by the sneaker mania with gorgeous suits and dresses in Rome last spring. I will circle back. Pardon the rushed nature of my response. BUT SO helpful and so much thanks. I am a recovering over packer, but also like fashion, Therefore, I always obsess on packing/not overpacking when a trip is more than a few days and it's a somewhat ambiguous season (i.e., neither deepfreeze nor killer heat). OK..running. Many thanks.

PS don't get me started on my love of Paul Green shoes--also Arches, AGLs (some of the more fashion forward Eccos, Blundee booties etc)--all are go to brands bec I have "difficult" feet. Thanks for your account of overpacking EKS-I've been there and your story puts some of my previous experiences into context Thanks also for your excitement--I appreciate it (and the restaurant recs...following also your thread on Cordoba with great interest). OK...now I'm really needing to run off and get to my event

Eks—thanks again for what you shared. It’s all very helpful and practical. You are certainly right about the need to take much less than we all tend to do. And you are also correct that good jeans these days go a long way. Will keep it in mind. Thanks again for the restaurant suggestions.

Your recollection that I’m not a Spanish speaker is also on target, though with my B1/B2 Italian I can sort of understand and sometimes be understood.

On your closet-glad you are doing a clean out. I find it liberating, and like the one thing in/one thing out approach after I buy something new. But that’s a very personal thing. And wear your great stuff (!), at least when home. I’m the opposite—I “have’ to wear anything new. My husband, not a big shopper and not esp interested in clothing, also seems to save whatever nice things I do buy him for some special occasion (even if it’s just a simple cardigan). That time never arrives. I cannot relate to that tendency

Thanks again Maribel for the very concrete suggestions and reflections on what’s “in” in Spain these days.(I’ve had a chance now to study properly your suggestions.) I see we are fans of the same brands. Sounds like-unless the weather forecasts change dramatically as we get close to our Nov 19 departure—I’ll be sure to check—that I needn’t bring my light hip length down sweater even for Madrid. Will be sure to take my (just above the knee) waterproof, hooded rain coat and light quilted vest; my usual EF light wool shawl; and will nix the heavyweight sweaters, in favor of a mix of cotton, jersey, and only light wool knits. Wow-this is all so helpful—many, many thanks. (And this gives me time to make sure that DH has the proper rain jacket-sounds like a trip to REI is in order.)

studenttobe,
I've tried all the "comfy" shoe brands (the brands they sell at Harry's NYC), and Paul Green I've found to be most comfortable for me to pound the European pavement, walking sometimes 10 miles a day.
I've also used Mephisto loafers (only the loafers with the flat sole that look "kind of" --well, maybe) like Tod's and Mephisto ankle boots because I had a sale outlet in Seattle.
Tried Arche that I bought in Paris, but for my feet they don't have enough support. I'm just very hard on my shoes.
I just looked up Bluestone boots and I may give them a try.

Ekscrunchy on another thread clued me into Thierry Rabotin ($$$$$, thanks, eks!), and they're my black suede dress up pumps, along with Pas de Rouge, that I can buy here online. AGLs too but not as comfy on my feet for long walks.

Now, back to your planning and packing!

Hi Maribel, Harry’s is a real treasure trove. I haven’t had luck finding Rabotin’s in my size on sale (but they are gorgeous). But Mephisto’s, yes—some great walking shoes. I have a workhorse sandal of theirs that has worked for me forever. Blundstone’s boots work very well for me—I love especially the waterproof leather line with shearling inserts (worn with no socks). Great for city walking with the feel of wearing house slippers. Thanks again for your packing advice. I can now start working on my packing list and making other plans (deep into restaurant reviewing stage..perhaps a bit late, but have been engulfed with work and catching up on trip planning)

It was Peter, Paul and Mary :~).

We saw lots of knee length puffer vests when we were in Granada last week -- it was chilly! -- and they looked really practical, especially when hooded, and comfy. I am on the lookout for one now.

We saw the flamenco show at Museo de Baile Flamenco in Seville and really loved it, plus we got a ticket that included a visit to the museum, which you can visit the same day or the day following, and enjoyed the exhibits, many of which are interactive. In Granada we went to shows at Casa del Arte de Flamenco, which was a mixed bag: we loved the guitarist and the special guest singer/violinist Ester Crisol, who is simply phenomenal, and liked the male dancer. We also went to Casa Ana in Granada, where we liked the female dancer and guitarist. Finally, we went to Alegria Flamenco in Malaga, which I believe is owned by the same folks as Jardines de Zoraya in Granada, and were blown away by the female dance, Irene La Sentio, and both of the male singers. Yes, we adore flamenco and it was really fun to compare and contrast, and enjoy a total of 4 hours of flamenco. We're only sorry we didn't get to a show in Jerez.

Our dinner at Regadera in Cordoba was lovely, the restaurant has a great vibe and energy. It is a small space, and the service is very warm. Three of our four dishes were outstanding, and the fourth was just meh. The lemon dessert was innovative and delicious, and lots of fun to smash!

funny on the shop

thanks so much for the sense of what people were wearing in re weather. And thanks for the information on the flamenco performances and the restaurant. I appreciate all that you shared i

URGENT UPDATE:

Cleaning out closet day turned into a "clean out one side of top shelf of bathroom under-sink cabinet)" day.

. Managed to get rid of a bunch of Lancome samples from. AD 1998 or so. And a white eye makeup (forget even what that is called) from YARDLEY!!!!! Should have donated to V&A museum. Closet still untouched! Tomorrow!!!

On the shoes, I've been buying Arche a lot and do wear them, mostly if I want to look "nice!" Not only have old Mephistos but also have MY MOTHER'S old Mephisto sneakers (AD 1980 or so!). Taryn Rose??? How long has she been out of business?? Well I have some!!

Rest of closet if PACKED with nice, neat boxes or (mostly unworn) Gucci, Tod's, Stewart Weitzman,
Cole Hahn..you get the drift. bought on sale, on a whim, or in Europe, mostly. I kid you not, most of these have been worn twice, if that! I have terrible feet (secret: bunions, really bad, runs in family).....last night I followed a YouTube video about stretching my OC sneakers. Believe it or not, the idea is to fill a zip-loc bag part way with water, stuff it into the sneakers, and put it in the freezer so it turns to ice and so expands....sounds kookie.....just took them out of freezer so will see.

I have a long road ahead of me with the closet cleaning....you have NO idea......one entire long shelf in HUGE closet has a big sign: "clothes I aim TOO FAT to wear!!!!" Of course I think I will lose weight and then be able to wear all that "stuff" from NYC sample sales, etc etc....... Now bursting at the waist with those 32 size Rag and
Bone jeans and almost bought 33 online, but stopped myself, just in time!!!!!!!!!

And do not get me started on the handbags, although I do use my 2 Loewe "flamenco" bags all the time. Do not ask what possessed me to buy a purple leather bag, with matching wallet, no less, which is now starting to come apart after 5 months, in Catania last spring!!!!!!!! Oh yes, that black woven Bottega Veneta bought at their January saldi in Rome about 20 years ago?????? Still there in its nice clean flannel bag....never used!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TMI here, but just need to vent:

"I am erica and I am an overpacker and verging on being a a hoarder!!!!!!! Recommendations for rehabs welcome!!!!!!!!!


Yes, Peter Paul and Mary!!!!!!!!!!

Salivating at the mention of Bottega Veneta: I think I have found the perfect bag, spotted often on someone I know, but I could never bring myself to spend that much on a bag.....am periodically checking The RealReal and other re-sale sites to see if they have the Olimpia in black....and also contemplating a quilted bag from Quince.

But, I disgress, so on to SHOES: we knew there was a strong likelihood of rain while we were away, s my husband brought his beloved, 20-year old black leather Mephistos, srt of a cross between bowling ball and sneaker style. They were great, until we noticed that the sole was seriously nicked and water was seeping in, and then the cobblestones caused a large chunk to peel away. Found a shoe store in Granada, Minelli, which carried Mephisto, and he ended up finding a great pair of waterproof, lightweight black leather Eccos, so we thanked the Mephistos for their service and tossed them.

Prior to the trip, I went to our local running shoe store, Fleet Feet, and purchased a pair of sneakers from Karhu, a brand I'd never heard of before, and they were champions of the trip for me. Not the most attractive footwear, for sure, but supportive and cushy and kept my feet very happy.

adlmllr,
I'm really surprised and sorry about the Mephisto disaster. My husband swears by his....he has the bowling shoe style, the boating shoe style and the loafers and loves them. He's very hard on shoes. Tried Pikolinos and they lasted a month for him.
Luckily we had a Mephisto sale shop near us in Seattle so they weren't so costly, and we also bought new pairs every summer in St-Jean-de-Luz, when they were on sale.
But.... sturdy Eccos were my best hiking shoe ever (my hiking days are over).
Minelli carries a large inventory of "comfy shoes" I see.

Glad you enjoyed the Museo del Baile Flamenco in Sevilla and the other venues.

Oh my gosh, Erica—I wish I could jet to NY and launch an “intervention” [also, to shop your closet ]. Acknowledging your problem is the first step, as they say. You are starting small in a big decluttering project and small victories matter. For an inexplicable reason, I consider decluttering a kind of hobby, but I’m strange in more respects beyond just this one.

And on the aspirational clothing in one’s closet—that’s really hard. In the last few years I did two radical culls/donation drives driven by recognition/aka acceptance that I was never going to fit again into certain things (and keeping them was kind of cruel). Also, driven by recognition that certain items in my closet were more aspirational in terms of a life that is different from the one that I actually have (which is certainly a fortunate one), but I just don’t have that many glam occasions.

I am a bunion person, too, and that has focused me on only a few brands of shoes.

Wow, adlmllr, good thing you found that store in Granada. I’ve had great luck with Mephisto and Ecco’s (but after 20 years of service your husband’s deserved to retire). I have a workhorse pair of black Ecco waterproof sneakers (though with a flat rather than an athletic looking sole) that are ankle high with a zipper on the side — very cute and almost pass for a shoe since they are black with a black sole—very comfortable walking shoe, even for my hard to please feet.) Great to know about Karhu sneakers—a champion shoe on a trip is so important..

Maribel, I was just about to buy tickets to the Cathedral in Seville. I'm a little confused about ticket options, though your generous instructions to me (pasted below) are crystal clear.

"Cathedral in Sevilla, ditto. Or go first the the Iglesia del Divino Salvador, a Baroque majesty, when it opens at 10:30 and purchase a joint ticket for this church, the Cathedral and the Giralda. This ticket doesn't have to be used the same day. It's good for 3 days. It allows you to skip the often very long lines at the Cathedral. The ticket is called the "Visita Conjunta Catedral + Giralda + Iglesia Collegial del Divino Salvador."

I like the idea of buying the tickets in advance, either for just the Cathedral or for all three venues (but without audioguide or guided tour). On the Cathedral's website I don't see an option to purchase Cathedral tickets alone (just for that venue, no audio guide, no guided tour). There is the option on the Cathedral's website to purchase a combined ticket to the Cathedral, Girarda + Iglesia Collegial del Divino Salvador. https://catedraldesevilla.entradasdemuseos.com. I'm sorry I'm unclear if this ticket has to be used over the course of one day. The visit begins at Puerta del Lagarto, which I assume means that this is where you queue.

I also came across this link for skip the line tickets, though I'm not sure if this is a reputable vendor. https://www.tiqets.com/en/seville-at...ate=2023-11-29 I generally prefer not to work with third party vendors, but thought I should check.

I welcome any thoughts. It's all so well translated into English, but somehow still confusing. Thanks very much in advance.

Hi studenttobe,
You most definitely need those Cathedral tickets purchased in advance to avoid the very long lines.
Either purchase the combo ticket (Cathedral, Girlada, Iglesia Colegial del Divino Salvador) on the Cathedral's website (no audio guide or guided tour unless you want it)
Or....just go to the Iglesia first when they open at 10:30 (like go_laura did) and purchase your combo tickets at its ticket booth.
There are fewer visitors to the stunningly Baroque Iglesia Collegial del Divino Salvador than to the Cathedral, but it's a sight that you will certainly want to see, as the interiors are truly magnificent.

This "Visita Conjunta" ticket doesn't need to be used over the course of one day, but instead over the course of 3 days, IIRC.
https://catedraldesevilla.entradasde...de-el-salvador

Don't every use the third party vendor site. Always use the "web official" site above.

Hope it's clear now!
.

Many thanks, Maribel-all clear now. Apologies for having gotten myself confused when confronting the website despite your very specific earlier instructions. This time they got through my thick noggin! All set now. I will definitely visit the Iglesia—have been reading about it as well. Have had the opportunity to marvel at baroque architectural wonders in southern Italy and very much looking forward to enjoying baroque in southern Spain.Thanks again-and for your patience, too.