Budget family trip to Europe
Dec 28th, 2014, 11:52 AM
#21
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Alec, I know. I can't imagine any child being happy on that schedule of never-ending coming & going-- and all the while expecting best behavior from the child. Kids need to settle and nest now and then. Being on a train for hours does not count.
Mission Impossible.
Mission Impossible.
Dec 28th, 2014, 01:09 PM
#22
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You are taking enough trains to merit a good look at the Eurail Select Saverpass - kid goes free always. The pass comes in first class which for a family of three IMO would be a good thing - IME on trains in those countries there are usually several empty seats in first class to spread out on - baggage easier to stow, etc.
Kids go free but that usually means those under 4 do not need a ticket if they do not occupy their own seat - otherwise you'd need to buy a ticket for them to guarantee a seat but in first class it would be abnormal IME not to find empty seats and I think in that case no one would care. I'm not totally sure how kids under 4 are handled in each country however but this is the general rule of thumb on European trains.
Anyway for loads of great info on trains in those countries I always spotlight these IMO fine sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com (Byron there is a font of info - ask him about the 2 yr old and seats to get a definitive answer IME; www.riucksteves.com; www.seat61.com - specialty of latter site is discounted tickets you can buy but be sure to compare the pass price to the price of a string of discounted 2nd class tickets that are typically non-refundable and non-schangeable - compare vs 1st class pass (if over 25 Eurailpasses automatically are first class at least the Eurail Select Pass is.
Kids go free but that usually means those under 4 do not need a ticket if they do not occupy their own seat - otherwise you'd need to buy a ticket for them to guarantee a seat but in first class it would be abnormal IME not to find empty seats and I think in that case no one would care. I'm not totally sure how kids under 4 are handled in each country however but this is the general rule of thumb on European trains.
Anyway for loads of great info on trains in those countries I always spotlight these IMO fine sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com (Byron there is a font of info - ask him about the 2 yr old and seats to get a definitive answer IME; www.riucksteves.com; www.seat61.com - specialty of latter site is discounted tickets you can buy but be sure to compare the pass price to the price of a string of discounted 2nd class tickets that are typically non-refundable and non-schangeable - compare vs 1st class pass (if over 25 Eurailpasses automatically are first class at least the Eurail Select Pass is.
Dec 28th, 2014, 02:39 PM
#23
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@Tabernash2 and @alec,
Moving along the cities not considering intercontinental flights are taking about 18h (one flight and 5 trains with no more than 3 hours long each one) . Even if we consider the combination of all the time to get to the trains stations it will not take much longer than one day in the 24-days itineray . It's not that bad , is it?
Even If I cut down the south of France part of the itinerary it won´t helps too much, because I still have to go from Paris to Barcelona (6h train or a 2h flight with all the "check in" burocracy, time and costs to get to the airport by taxi). IMHO, Don ´t really worth it!
We do like planning the best case, but off course we have alternatives in case something goes wrong based on our child behaviour or something worse like bad weather conditions. If necessary, we can stay a hole day in the hotel. Not a problem.
Not trying to convince you, but I have to say again : we already know most of these cities and we have no commitments to museums or overcrowded attractions. If things get really rushed, we just slow down, it´s not really hard when you know how to do it.
For instance, notice that in my original itinerary there is not even a stopover in Brussels and a side trip to Gent/Antwerp is just an option to a free day in Bruges. I think that the key to success is to plan something flexible enough for your needs.
Moving along the cities not considering intercontinental flights are taking about 18h (one flight and 5 trains with no more than 3 hours long each one) . Even if we consider the combination of all the time to get to the trains stations it will not take much longer than one day in the 24-days itineray . It's not that bad , is it?
Even If I cut down the south of France part of the itinerary it won´t helps too much, because I still have to go from Paris to Barcelona (6h train or a 2h flight with all the "check in" burocracy, time and costs to get to the airport by taxi). IMHO, Don ´t really worth it!
We do like planning the best case, but off course we have alternatives in case something goes wrong based on our child behaviour or something worse like bad weather conditions. If necessary, we can stay a hole day in the hotel. Not a problem.
Not trying to convince you, but I have to say again : we already know most of these cities and we have no commitments to museums or overcrowded attractions. If things get really rushed, we just slow down, it´s not really hard when you know how to do it.
For instance, notice that in my original itinerary there is not even a stopover in Brussels and a side trip to Gent/Antwerp is just an option to a free day in Bruges. I think that the key to success is to plan something flexible enough for your needs.
Dec 28th, 2014, 02:48 PM
#24
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@sandralist,
I am aware of that. I still remember the rains when I was in London on April 2012. Oh god, it was really not good. Because things like that (and our child´s behaviour) that this itinerary must be flexible. With your help, i am trying to accomplish this.
I am aware of that. I still remember the rains when I was in London on April 2012. Oh god, it was really not good. Because things like that (and our child´s behaviour) that this itinerary must be flexible. With your help, i am trying to accomplish this.
Dec 28th, 2014, 03:01 PM
#25
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mariojbra,
Flexibility includes, I think, not committing yourself to catching a 5am train. Remember, too, that normally you cannot get into a hotel room until noon or later, so taking a crack of dawn train can meet added discomfort, especially if it is raining.
I pointed out earlier that your schedule would be improved for Spain if you planned on taking a later a train. If you are early birds who get at up at the crack of dawn anyway, then leave your bags at the hotel and go do some sightseeing until it is time to catch the later train.
Flexibility includes, I think, not committing yourself to catching a 5am train. Remember, too, that normally you cannot get into a hotel room until noon or later, so taking a crack of dawn train can meet added discomfort, especially if it is raining.
I pointed out earlier that your schedule would be improved for Spain if you planned on taking a later a train. If you are early birds who get at up at the crack of dawn anyway, then leave your bags at the hotel and go do some sightseeing until it is time to catch the later train.
Dec 28th, 2014, 03:01 PM
#26
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PalenQ ,
I found out that the eurorail pass costs € 1261 euros for 2 adults and a child for only 10 days (and not valid in UK).
if i pay in advance, for these 5 trains between the cities I´m going to pay 623 euros now.
I don ´t know much about eurail passes but it seems that it is a good choice only if you needs total flexibility.
I found out that the eurorail pass costs € 1261 euros for 2 adults and a child for only 10 days (and not valid in UK).
if i pay in advance, for these 5 trains between the cities I´m going to pay 623 euros now.
I don ´t know much about eurail passes but it seems that it is a good choice only if you needs total flexibility.
Dec 28th, 2014, 03:28 PM
#27
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Sandralist
That´s a good opportunity to improve the plans, we chose this train because it is the only direct train from Brugge to Paris.
Not worried about weather conditions because Ibis Brugge is very close to train station and when we get to Paris we have to get a taxi to a hotel next to Gare de Lyon. I have confirmed with the hotel that we can leave our bags there, but we must also be prepared in case we can´t go elsewhere in the morning (or maybe just get a later train to Paris with a change in Brussels).
Are you talking about Barcelona-Madrid train? Actually, the renfe site have not started yet to sell the tickets for April. When they have the timetable, i´ll buy a later train, not a problem at all. Thank you for remind me this fact.
That´s a good opportunity to improve the plans, we chose this train because it is the only direct train from Brugge to Paris.
Not worried about weather conditions because Ibis Brugge is very close to train station and when we get to Paris we have to get a taxi to a hotel next to Gare de Lyon. I have confirmed with the hotel that we can leave our bags there, but we must also be prepared in case we can´t go elsewhere in the morning (or maybe just get a later train to Paris with a change in Brussels).
Are you talking about Barcelona-Madrid train? Actually, the renfe site have not started yet to sell the tickets for April. When they have the timetable, i´ll buy a later train, not a problem at all. Thank you for remind me this fact.
Dec 28th, 2014, 03:32 PM
#28
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I haven't read all the replies, but I'll say this: traveling with an under 2 is really difficult and much harder than you might imagine. Not to say it's not worth it. It absolutely is, and if you love travel, and you have the ability to travel when they are little, it can bring you and your spouse a great deal of joy doing something you enjoy. It sounds like you know several of the cities on the itinerary, which eliminates the feeling that you have to get out and see everything and gives you a chance to just relax and enjoy the pace of life.
But traveling with a toddler means that one has to revise down expectations of what you can see and do. And you'll be surprised how much *stuff* you'll need to bring for the baby (Diapers, baby wipes, shampoo, bottles, sippy cups, your trusted baby advil/tylenol/etc). Also think of the clothes you'll need... if you plan to do it entirely with hotels, you'll either have to pack it all or spend an afternoon at the automatic laundrymat.
We did it about 10 years ago with our then 14 month old. We spent the first half of the trip (~10 days) in London (which was new to us) and about ~8 days in Paris (which was a familiar and favorite vacation spot for us). We spent a LOT of time walking around with the stroller and less time actually seeing *things*. Once, when I *really* wanted to go back to the Musee D'Orsay, she threw one of her only, but really epic, tantrums of the trip and I had to leave the Musee to sit on a bridge while she cried and screamed. We had to tag-team the museum that day. It was a bummer.
She also cut something like 7 teeth in our first 9 days of the trip, and it was an effort to keep her eating, resting well, and happy. (I wrote a trip report otherwise I wouldn't remember all that.) We had apartments in both locations so we had laundry facilities, and spent most of our dinners in the apartment... restaurant meals were in the afternoon and nothing too fancy so we didn't disturb fine dining for others. We went to a great (loud) Greek restaurant in London, and several bistros during the day in Paris. We also planned for this so overall the trip was what we expected: fun time together in two beautiful cities. My husband and I had a lovely time. We have beautiful memories of her playing all over Paris and London. Her first words were spoken in London ("bus" and "bird").
All that said, I, personally, would never undertake that much moving around with a toddler. At least not my first toddler. She always needed a little transition time, though she was also very interested (i.e. agreeable) wherever we took her. (My second child was easier with transitions but much much more physically active and could never had spent that much time in the stroller, which is why we waited almost a decade between trips and didn't travel again until second child was 7.)
Anyway, only you know what your threshold will be for travel with the baby. I'm not trying to scare you away from it. Just urging you to really think through the option of scaling back the number of cities. You have a couple of days in there where you're only staying a couple of days... and those might be hard on you and the baby. I might try to eliminate 1 or 2 stops and focus on the cities that will be most fulfilling or most exciting for you. That would give you a chance to settle in a bit more.
Also, I just remembered that your OP says "budget" trip... if you limited the amount of travel to a few destinations, you could probably find apartments for 4-5-6 night stays and save money on restaurants (and possibly spend less than a daily rate in the hotels, too).
Another thing I noticed... is that you travel from Lisbon, then to London, then Paris, then back to Spain. Since Lisbon and Spain are closer together, wouldn't it make more sense to fly open jaw, starting in, say, London, then Eurostar to Paris, then do Madrid and Lisboa together at the end of the trip. (Or reverse the order?)
One other thing... jet lag will hit you all on day 2-3. So I always like to give my first city an extra day or two.
Another tip, if your child still takes a nap, get that child on their nap schedule when you land, and maybe plan to do the train trips or long stroller walks during nap time.
Good luck planning.
But traveling with a toddler means that one has to revise down expectations of what you can see and do. And you'll be surprised how much *stuff* you'll need to bring for the baby (Diapers, baby wipes, shampoo, bottles, sippy cups, your trusted baby advil/tylenol/etc). Also think of the clothes you'll need... if you plan to do it entirely with hotels, you'll either have to pack it all or spend an afternoon at the automatic laundrymat.
We did it about 10 years ago with our then 14 month old. We spent the first half of the trip (~10 days) in London (which was new to us) and about ~8 days in Paris (which was a familiar and favorite vacation spot for us). We spent a LOT of time walking around with the stroller and less time actually seeing *things*. Once, when I *really* wanted to go back to the Musee D'Orsay, she threw one of her only, but really epic, tantrums of the trip and I had to leave the Musee to sit on a bridge while she cried and screamed. We had to tag-team the museum that day. It was a bummer.
She also cut something like 7 teeth in our first 9 days of the trip, and it was an effort to keep her eating, resting well, and happy. (I wrote a trip report otherwise I wouldn't remember all that.) We had apartments in both locations so we had laundry facilities, and spent most of our dinners in the apartment... restaurant meals were in the afternoon and nothing too fancy so we didn't disturb fine dining for others. We went to a great (loud) Greek restaurant in London, and several bistros during the day in Paris. We also planned for this so overall the trip was what we expected: fun time together in two beautiful cities. My husband and I had a lovely time. We have beautiful memories of her playing all over Paris and London. Her first words were spoken in London ("bus" and "bird").
All that said, I, personally, would never undertake that much moving around with a toddler. At least not my first toddler. She always needed a little transition time, though she was also very interested (i.e. agreeable) wherever we took her. (My second child was easier with transitions but much much more physically active and could never had spent that much time in the stroller, which is why we waited almost a decade between trips and didn't travel again until second child was 7.)
Anyway, only you know what your threshold will be for travel with the baby. I'm not trying to scare you away from it. Just urging you to really think through the option of scaling back the number of cities. You have a couple of days in there where you're only staying a couple of days... and those might be hard on you and the baby. I might try to eliminate 1 or 2 stops and focus on the cities that will be most fulfilling or most exciting for you. That would give you a chance to settle in a bit more.
Also, I just remembered that your OP says "budget" trip... if you limited the amount of travel to a few destinations, you could probably find apartments for 4-5-6 night stays and save money on restaurants (and possibly spend less than a daily rate in the hotels, too).
Another thing I noticed... is that you travel from Lisbon, then to London, then Paris, then back to Spain. Since Lisbon and Spain are closer together, wouldn't it make more sense to fly open jaw, starting in, say, London, then Eurostar to Paris, then do Madrid and Lisboa together at the end of the trip. (Or reverse the order?)
One other thing... jet lag will hit you all on day 2-3. So I always like to give my first city an extra day or two.
Another tip, if your child still takes a nap, get that child on their nap schedule when you land, and maybe plan to do the train trips or long stroller walks during nap time.
Good luck planning.
Dec 28th, 2014, 06:20 PM
#29
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Hello skatterfly,
First of all, what a story! You write very well, we can feel how much you love your children. Travel with a child is a wonderfull experience exactly like this one you have described!!
Actually, I never could even think go out on vacations without my kid. This is our fifth experience togheter. When he was 6 months old he gone to Florianopolis and he take his first bathe in the sea. Then, last new year´s day we gone to Falls of Iguaçu, the most beautifull water falls of the world. Great 1-week trips.
Our first experience in Europe was in May when we did a 3-week trip to Lisbon-Madri-Venezia-Florence-Roma. We (me, mother, and grandmothers) sang "happy birthday" for him and he ate his first piece of cake in a cafeteria with views to Coliseum. It was fantastic!
Based on our own experience, my wife and me learned a lot of things after those trips (travel light, baby´s mood, flexible itineraries) and we was confident to go to Germany last September. We did it all togheter : Oktoberfest in Munich and Stuttgart, Alps, Rhyne and Mosel valleys and Amsterda. A memorable 2 weeks trip with a car.
As you see, we are not newbies when talking about travelling with children and we are improving our plannings to be more and more flexible. I even have a blog with my travelling experiences on this site : http://avidadoviajante.blogspot.com.br/
The reason why I chose Lisbon firstly is exactly the jat lag. It is a compulsory conexion when you travel from Brazil to Europa (and vice-versa) by TAP Airlines. So we stopover there, to minimize the effects of the jetlag before going to the really "kickoff" in London.
This is the same reason why I chose to come back from Madri : the conection Madri/Lisbon/Brazil is shorter, then we can come back home earlier.
But this revealed to be a mistake. I should have chosen come back from Barcelona, so I ´d have more time for France and Barcelona and skip one extra stop (Madrid). But I already bought the tickets, so I have to plan the better I can now.
My son usually sleeps very well at night (8-9 hours) and just a short nap during the day. But he also likes to sleep in the baby stroller if necessary, not really a problem for us.
Thank you very much for your comments.
First of all, what a story! You write very well, we can feel how much you love your children. Travel with a child is a wonderfull experience exactly like this one you have described!!
Actually, I never could even think go out on vacations without my kid. This is our fifth experience togheter. When he was 6 months old he gone to Florianopolis and he take his first bathe in the sea. Then, last new year´s day we gone to Falls of Iguaçu, the most beautifull water falls of the world. Great 1-week trips.
Our first experience in Europe was in May when we did a 3-week trip to Lisbon-Madri-Venezia-Florence-Roma. We (me, mother, and grandmothers) sang "happy birthday" for him and he ate his first piece of cake in a cafeteria with views to Coliseum. It was fantastic!
Based on our own experience, my wife and me learned a lot of things after those trips (travel light, baby´s mood, flexible itineraries) and we was confident to go to Germany last September. We did it all togheter : Oktoberfest in Munich and Stuttgart, Alps, Rhyne and Mosel valleys and Amsterda. A memorable 2 weeks trip with a car.
As you see, we are not newbies when talking about travelling with children and we are improving our plannings to be more and more flexible. I even have a blog with my travelling experiences on this site : http://avidadoviajante.blogspot.com.br/
The reason why I chose Lisbon firstly is exactly the jat lag. It is a compulsory conexion when you travel from Brazil to Europa (and vice-versa) by TAP Airlines. So we stopover there, to minimize the effects of the jetlag before going to the really "kickoff" in London.
This is the same reason why I chose to come back from Madri : the conection Madri/Lisbon/Brazil is shorter, then we can come back home earlier.
But this revealed to be a mistake. I should have chosen come back from Barcelona, so I ´d have more time for France and Barcelona and skip one extra stop (Madrid). But I already bought the tickets, so I have to plan the better I can now.
My son usually sleeps very well at night (8-9 hours) and just a short nap during the day. But he also likes to sleep in the baby stroller if necessary, not really a problem for us.
Thank you very much for your comments.
Dec 28th, 2014, 06:29 PM
#30
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In our experience traveling with our two little ones, infants are infinitely easier than toddlers.
But you seem committed to your plan, even though it is not really budget-minded, or kid-friendly.
Good luck to you.
But you seem committed to your plan, even though it is not really budget-minded, or kid-friendly.
Good luck to you.
Dec 28th, 2014, 07:31 PM
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Mario...it sounds like you've had a lot of fun, and have traveled enough to know what you want (and what works for your child). But if your child is not yet in the 2's, brace yourself. The child that traveled well in the previous 6-12 months may become infinitely more difficult to travel with for a couple years. That doesn't mean don't do it. But seriously, be prepared. From one parent to the next. You run the risk of wearing yourself out, too... not fun at all. You seem determined to see all of these cities on your itinerary, but you might have more breathing room if you eliminated just one of them so you could spread out your time in each location a bit more.
That said... regarding your specific schedule... given the other places you're trying to see, I think you have 1 too many nights in Bruges. I'd add one more night to Paris or even 1 more to Nimes. Also, the Nimes-Madrid section of your itinerary feels jumbled together with only 3 nights in Nimes, 3 in Barcelona, then the end of the trip with 4 days in Madrid.
Also, if I read your recent reply correctly, you wish you had more time in Barcelona... is there a reason you must stay for 4 days in Madrid? If you must fly out of Madrid, that's not a reason to stay 4 nights. Perhaps 2 nights in Madrid and add those other 2 nights to Barcelona if you want more time in Barcelona?
Good luck. I know this is the hardest part of the trip!
That said... regarding your specific schedule... given the other places you're trying to see, I think you have 1 too many nights in Bruges. I'd add one more night to Paris or even 1 more to Nimes. Also, the Nimes-Madrid section of your itinerary feels jumbled together with only 3 nights in Nimes, 3 in Barcelona, then the end of the trip with 4 days in Madrid.
Also, if I read your recent reply correctly, you wish you had more time in Barcelona... is there a reason you must stay for 4 days in Madrid? If you must fly out of Madrid, that's not a reason to stay 4 nights. Perhaps 2 nights in Madrid and add those other 2 nights to Barcelona if you want more time in Barcelona?
Good luck. I know this is the hardest part of the trip!
Dec 29th, 2014, 05:02 AM
#33
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skatterfly,
Actually, we are going to stay just 3 nights in Madrid, from 18/04 to 21/04. But it is still possible to add an extra night in Barcelona.
The question is : Does it really help? If we stayed just 2 nights , then we are going to have no free time at all in Madrid (remember we have to prepare ourselves for the flight back home). Not sure if it is the better option. What do you people think?
Actually, we are going to stay just 3 nights in Madrid, from 18/04 to 21/04. But it is still possible to add an extra night in Barcelona.
The question is : Does it really help? If we stayed just 2 nights , then we are going to have no free time at all in Madrid (remember we have to prepare ourselves for the flight back home). Not sure if it is the better option. What do you people think?
Dec 29th, 2014, 05:18 AM
#34
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In May we travelled with the grandmothers. In October it was just my wife and me.
For sure, the grandmothers help take care of our child. But... sometimes we that have to take care of them... =)
For sure, the grandmothers help take care of our child. But... sometimes we that have to take care of them... =)
Dec 29th, 2014, 07:09 AM
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Yes, grandmothers make the trip a little easier. We took my mom on the trip with our toddler that I mentioned above.
For 2 nights in Madrid, I was only suggesting it because you said you wanted more time in Barcelona and that you already went to Madrid just a year ago. It's really up to you what you want to see and do.
In terms of if 2 nights is enough, I don't know. We typically only stay 1 night before our flight in the city we are flying out of and since it's at the end of our trip that last 24 hours is really a winding down time anyway. You sound like you travel differently than I do.
But the fact is, most of the posters here have suggested you slow down and spend more time in fewer locations. And you've repeatedly said that you want to go to all these places and stay in cheap hotels near train stations. It's your trip, and you should do it the way it works for you. But you've been duly warned. I traveled like that in my 20s with no children. After children, no way.
So the question now is, what kind of advice do you actually need? Hotels? What things to see? Have you changed your itinerary much from what's listed above?
It looks like you have gotten great advice about the trains... but remember that if budget is really your concern... then buying the least flexible, non-refundable tickets ahead of time is the most affordable. (Often significantly less.) But that means you cannot change your day to day plans, or miss your train. (And it happens. We missed our Eurostar from London to Paris on the trip with the toddler. Luckily those tickets were changeable with a fee, otherwise we would have been out almost $1000 for us and the grandparents.)
BTW, a question came up about Arles... yes, visit it if you can. It's a lovely little Provencal town with a quiet town square. I remember old men playing boules in a square near the train station. There's a Roman amphitheater and a beautiful market day. From Arles, we took the bus to Les Baux. Also a beautiful walled hill town. I think we stayed 3-4 nights in Arles and had a really nice time seeing the pace of Provencal life. But I'm afraid with your schedule you'll never have a chance to get off the beaten path like that.
Anyway, good luck planning. It can be agonizing work. Like you, I'm of the opinion that planning ahead, what all the options are, makes the trip flow much better.
For 2 nights in Madrid, I was only suggesting it because you said you wanted more time in Barcelona and that you already went to Madrid just a year ago. It's really up to you what you want to see and do.
In terms of if 2 nights is enough, I don't know. We typically only stay 1 night before our flight in the city we are flying out of and since it's at the end of our trip that last 24 hours is really a winding down time anyway. You sound like you travel differently than I do.
But the fact is, most of the posters here have suggested you slow down and spend more time in fewer locations. And you've repeatedly said that you want to go to all these places and stay in cheap hotels near train stations. It's your trip, and you should do it the way it works for you. But you've been duly warned. I traveled like that in my 20s with no children. After children, no way.
So the question now is, what kind of advice do you actually need? Hotels? What things to see? Have you changed your itinerary much from what's listed above?
It looks like you have gotten great advice about the trains... but remember that if budget is really your concern... then buying the least flexible, non-refundable tickets ahead of time is the most affordable. (Often significantly less.) But that means you cannot change your day to day plans, or miss your train. (And it happens. We missed our Eurostar from London to Paris on the trip with the toddler. Luckily those tickets were changeable with a fee, otherwise we would have been out almost $1000 for us and the grandparents.)
BTW, a question came up about Arles... yes, visit it if you can. It's a lovely little Provencal town with a quiet town square. I remember old men playing boules in a square near the train station. There's a Roman amphitheater and a beautiful market day. From Arles, we took the bus to Les Baux. Also a beautiful walled hill town. I think we stayed 3-4 nights in Arles and had a really nice time seeing the pace of Provencal life. But I'm afraid with your schedule you'll never have a chance to get off the beaten path like that.
Anyway, good luck planning. It can be agonizing work. Like you, I'm of the opinion that planning ahead, what all the options are, makes the trip flow much better.
Dec 29th, 2014, 11:20 AM
#36
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***But the fact is, most of the posters here have suggested you slow down and spend more time in fewer locations***
I´m still trying to figure it how to do that, because it means I have to cut down Belgium and/or Nimes.
***So the question now is, what kind of advice do you actually need? Hotels? What things to see? Have you changed your itinerary much from what's listed above?***
Considering just a stopover (1 night) in Brugge and add one extra night in Nimes and another one in Barcelona.
Lisbon - 3 nights
London - 4 nights
Brugge - 1 night
Paris - 4 nights
Nimes - 4 nights
Barcelona - 4 nights
Madrid - 3 nights
But not sure about that. I guess you ´d say the most reasonable thing to do is to cut down brugge and add another extra day to Paris =)
I´m still trying to figure it how to do that, because it means I have to cut down Belgium and/or Nimes.
***So the question now is, what kind of advice do you actually need? Hotels? What things to see? Have you changed your itinerary much from what's listed above?***
Considering just a stopover (1 night) in Brugge and add one extra night in Nimes and another one in Barcelona.
Lisbon - 3 nights
London - 4 nights
Brugge - 1 night
Paris - 4 nights
Nimes - 4 nights
Barcelona - 4 nights
Madrid - 3 nights
But not sure about that. I guess you ´d say the most reasonable thing to do is to cut down brugge and add another extra day to Paris =)
Dec 29th, 2014, 01:00 PM
#38
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I find it ironic that I, the person who is always begging persons to SLOW DOWN, immediately got the impression that you guys had a good grip on how to travel with your little one.
I would never do it, mind you--my now "perfect" children were absolute savages until 2.5 years, and it took a basket of special plane toys to encourage good behavior from there on in. Heck, until my youngest was 5 years of age, I had no guarantee she would board the next flight: she would absolutely refuse to do a third connection: "I fly enough planes today. I am going to my hotel."
But I often noted that there were people who were able to make it work right as soon as the kid popped out. And I firmly believe your trip WILL work out.
Yeah, you're doing a lot. But as you said, you have familiarity with a lot of the places you will be visiting, and I like your train hotels theme, too.
My only real opinion is that I'm not a big fan of Brugge. I AM a fan of Antwerp. But I totally get what you are saying about transfer costs and hotel costs in some cities, and I have no clue as to the cost of a train hotel is in Antwerp.
And yes, the train station in Brugge is quite a hike from the central area, but there is a really cheap bus that can take you in, so no problem
Enjoy.
AZ
I would never do it, mind you--my now "perfect" children were absolute savages until 2.5 years, and it took a basket of special plane toys to encourage good behavior from there on in. Heck, until my youngest was 5 years of age, I had no guarantee she would board the next flight: she would absolutely refuse to do a third connection: "I fly enough planes today. I am going to my hotel."
But I often noted that there were people who were able to make it work right as soon as the kid popped out. And I firmly believe your trip WILL work out.
Yeah, you're doing a lot. But as you said, you have familiarity with a lot of the places you will be visiting, and I like your train hotels theme, too.
My only real opinion is that I'm not a big fan of Brugge. I AM a fan of Antwerp. But I totally get what you are saying about transfer costs and hotel costs in some cities, and I have no clue as to the cost of a train hotel is in Antwerp.
And yes, the train station in Brugge is quite a hike from the central area, but there is a really cheap bus that can take you in, so no problem
Enjoy.
AZ
