Brutal Crack Down on Peaceful Environmental Protest
Jun 3rd, 2013, 10:47 AM
#101
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BigAl..
I can only hope that the rest of your wisdom does not come from anecdotal experiences of relatives or state-sponsored think tanks. I assume you will also find arguments for your point of view in Hürriyet.
It sometimes helps when you are "surrounded" in your daily life by "oppressed" Turks which follow the situation in Turkey every minute and talk and chat as much as possible with family in TR to check if friends or family had harmed. When I am not busy treating my Turk-German co-workers and neighbors like garbage (I usually do that Mon thru Fri from 9-11) I talk to them about the oppressions going on.
The coverage on TRT Evropa is also controlled, so most you see are evil protestors trying to kill peaceful policemen or bystanders. (irony)
Even those who formally had more sympathy for Erdogan say more and more that he turned into a lunatic who sells out the country to foreign corporations, steamrolling his Albert Speer like projects all over the big cities. Tearing down parts of Istanbul because the buildings had no permit and are not earthquake safe (which is often true) - but uses this as an excuse to tear down whole neighborhoods to make room for another EU or US financed mall or luxury condo highrise. While the people who lived there are actually thrown out of their houses.
Honestly, I don't wish that everything will go back to "normal" or "peaceful happiness" (obviously I wish the killing and violence to stop) but that those forces which started the Turkish Spring will help the Turkish people to (peacefully) regain control over their own country.
I can only hope that the rest of your wisdom does not come from anecdotal experiences of relatives or state-sponsored think tanks. I assume you will also find arguments for your point of view in Hürriyet.
It sometimes helps when you are "surrounded" in your daily life by "oppressed" Turks which follow the situation in Turkey every minute and talk and chat as much as possible with family in TR to check if friends or family had harmed. When I am not busy treating my Turk-German co-workers and neighbors like garbage (I usually do that Mon thru Fri from 9-11) I talk to them about the oppressions going on.
The coverage on TRT Evropa is also controlled, so most you see are evil protestors trying to kill peaceful policemen or bystanders. (irony)
Even those who formally had more sympathy for Erdogan say more and more that he turned into a lunatic who sells out the country to foreign corporations, steamrolling his Albert Speer like projects all over the big cities. Tearing down parts of Istanbul because the buildings had no permit and are not earthquake safe (which is often true) - but uses this as an excuse to tear down whole neighborhoods to make room for another EU or US financed mall or luxury condo highrise. While the people who lived there are actually thrown out of their houses.
Honestly, I don't wish that everything will go back to "normal" or "peaceful happiness" (obviously I wish the killing and violence to stop) but that those forces which started the Turkish Spring will help the Turkish people to (peacefully) regain control over their own country.
Jun 3rd, 2013, 11:19 AM
#102
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BigAl..
I can only hope that the rest of your wisdom does not come from anecdotal experiences of relatives or state-sponsored think tanks. I assume you will also find arguments for your point of view in Hürriyet.
________
Or one's opinion can be derived from chauvanism and denial.
I only cited three different reports and you did not address any of the facts such as Turks in Germany having a 25% unemployment rate.
____________________
It sometimes helps when you are "surrounded" in your daily life by "oppressed" Turks which follow the situation in Turkey every minute and talk and chat as much as possible with family in TR to check if friends or family had harmed.
This usually starts in the US with "Some of my best friends are Turks."
I can only hope that the rest of your wisdom does not come from anecdotal experiences of relatives or state-sponsored think tanks. I assume you will also find arguments for your point of view in Hürriyet.
________
Or one's opinion can be derived from chauvanism and denial.
I only cited three different reports and you did not address any of the facts such as Turks in Germany having a 25% unemployment rate.
____________________
It sometimes helps when you are "surrounded" in your daily life by "oppressed" Turks which follow the situation in Turkey every minute and talk and chat as much as possible with family in TR to check if friends or family had harmed.
This usually starts in the US with "Some of my best friends are Turks."
Jun 3rd, 2013, 02:07 PM
#103
OC - glad to see that your excursions have not led you into danger.
ref theBBC coverage as discussed upthread, there was a discussion on the Today programme this am on Radio 4 between 2 turks, one uk based and the other based in Turkey.
they were agreed that your PM has lost a lot of his popularity by his actions which have failed to live up to the expectations of a population which wants a secular and prosperous Turkey with no religious interference.
I did not get the impression that the BBC was taking anything other than the same line as you in your explanation of recent events.
ref theBBC coverage as discussed upthread, there was a discussion on the Today programme this am on Radio 4 between 2 turks, one uk based and the other based in Turkey.
they were agreed that your PM has lost a lot of his popularity by his actions which have failed to live up to the expectations of a population which wants a secular and prosperous Turkey with no religious interference.
I did not get the impression that the BBC was taking anything other than the same line as you in your explanation of recent events.
Jun 3rd, 2013, 02:47 PM
#104
Ann, I listened to BBC World the first morning, hoping to get some decent and unbiased coverage. What I got was three sentences telling about some insignificant protest that was nicely put down by riot police in some remote corner of the world. There was no mention of unnecessary brutal force, no mention of saving trees or a park, no mention of maybe 20 peaceful people sleeping in their tents in a park doused with water cannon and shot at with pepper gas.
One hour after that I read on twitter that one of the first injuries was a BBC reporter!!!! after people and the media heard and rushed to the scene.
In any case, the PM was never popular with people like us, and I doubt that he is actually losing his popularity with his supporters. In fact, if we had an election tomorrow, he would probably win again hands down. What is happening is that people like us are now coming out of our holes in the ground and very strangely, being joined by high school students 15-19.
The PM and his people believe that democracy means that who ever wins an election can do what he wants without asking anyone again, that parliament is an unnecessary burden, if you have the majority, that party MPs must vote only one way, as ordered by the Fuhrer.
Here is a very example of their idea of democracy and their practice on media :
http://t.co/dBW06LqeNR
And what good was Amanpour's better English and experience in dealing with the rhetoric spluttering henchman?
One hour after that I read on twitter that one of the first injuries was a BBC reporter!!!! after people and the media heard and rushed to the scene.
In any case, the PM was never popular with people like us, and I doubt that he is actually losing his popularity with his supporters. In fact, if we had an election tomorrow, he would probably win again hands down. What is happening is that people like us are now coming out of our holes in the ground and very strangely, being joined by high school students 15-19.
The PM and his people believe that democracy means that who ever wins an election can do what he wants without asking anyone again, that parliament is an unnecessary burden, if you have the majority, that party MPs must vote only one way, as ordered by the Fuhrer.
Here is a very example of their idea of democracy and their practice on media :
http://t.co/dBW06LqeNR
And what good was Amanpour's better English and experience in dealing with the rhetoric spluttering henchman?
Jun 3rd, 2013, 03:05 PM
#105
otherchelebi, I really wish you the best. As an optimist (albeit one who is often insulated from the reality of what goes on in the world), I want to believe that your movement will, eventually, succeed.
Jun 3rd, 2013, 09:31 PM
#108
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Here is an article from Tuesday's New York Times. It sounds much closer to the reality you describe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/wo...s-rule.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/wo...s-rule.html?hp
Jun 3rd, 2013, 11:26 PM
#109
BBC TV covered this last night with Jeremy Paxman interviewing getting some good views out of three guests. On News Night
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_03_06_2013/
Paul Mason offered this yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22752121
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ht_03_06_2013/
Paul Mason offered this yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22752121
Jun 4th, 2013, 12:08 AM
#110
It is just past 11 AM here.
We are going up to Taksim square again
I will visit my bank
and take some more photographs to add to my blog.
Shame on you fodorites, there are more views of the blog from Trip Advisor than from Fodors. -
We are going up to Taksim square again
I will visit my bank
and take some more photographs to add to my blog.
Shame on you fodorites, there are more views of the blog from Trip Advisor than from Fodors. -
Jun 4th, 2013, 11:38 AM
#117
OK. I posted the new photos from this afternoon.
This time I used a DSLR, but am not sure if there is much improvement in quality. The weight was useful for my exercise routine though.
I hope you get a chance to look at the new ones and read the captions a few of which you may even find funny.
I received some good news, The government finally invited our group, The Taksim Platform, for discussions, as the group which started the whole protest as far back as almost three years ago with petitions and letters and court cases, with no success.
The meeting will be with the Vice Prime minister, Bulent Arinc, in Ankara, at 11 AM. I do not trust this guy but this is still a terrific development. Commentators on TV are saying now that this move is to provide a strong return to the Prime Minister from his North Africa visit.
I have not read that article yet, but there was a reasonably good one on the Telegraph.
He also admitted that the initial show of police force to our group keeping watch over the trees that first night was a big mistake although he did not apologize.
This time I used a DSLR, but am not sure if there is much improvement in quality. The weight was useful for my exercise routine though.
I hope you get a chance to look at the new ones and read the captions a few of which you may even find funny.
I received some good news, The government finally invited our group, The Taksim Platform, for discussions, as the group which started the whole protest as far back as almost three years ago with petitions and letters and court cases, with no success.
The meeting will be with the Vice Prime minister, Bulent Arinc, in Ankara, at 11 AM. I do not trust this guy but this is still a terrific development. Commentators on TV are saying now that this move is to provide a strong return to the Prime Minister from his North Africa visit.
I have not read that article yet, but there was a reasonably good one on the Telegraph.
He also admitted that the initial show of police force to our group keeping watch over the trees that first night was a big mistake although he did not apologize.
Jun 4th, 2013, 11:40 AM
#118
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This is what is being posted on Huffington Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D322988
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...6pLid%3D322988
Jun 4th, 2013, 11:56 AM
#119
sf, I have now read the Paul Mason article and find it quite good and presenting the situation well but not conclusively.
There is always a limit to how much you can compare what happens somewhere to things happening elsewhere and at different times.
There are just too many variable to put in an equation and get a decent result.
I am a social scientist and think that three books can easily be written about this protest movement, as it could about Syria, Egypt, Libya or Tunus also.
There is always a limit to how much you can compare what happens somewhere to things happening elsewhere and at different times.
There are just too many variable to put in an equation and get a decent result.
I am a social scientist and think that three books can easily be written about this protest movement, as it could about Syria, Egypt, Libya or Tunus also.
Jun 4th, 2013, 12:21 PM
#120
otherchelebi,
Thanks so much for the updates on what is going on. It's been distressing to watch the events in Turkey from afar.
My husband and I have such strong and positive feelings toward Turkey. We had a wonderful visit in 2001, and were supposed to fly out on 9/11, but could not return home to the states that day. The warmth, concern and general welcome we were given during the 4 days we were there until we could fly home made us feel well taken care of during those terrible days. My heart breaks to see the changes that have taken place in Turkey over the last number of years.
I'm glad, at least, that there is some glimmer of hope!
Thanks so much for the updates on what is going on. It's been distressing to watch the events in Turkey from afar.
My husband and I have such strong and positive feelings toward Turkey. We had a wonderful visit in 2001, and were supposed to fly out on 9/11, but could not return home to the states that day. The warmth, concern and general welcome we were given during the 4 days we were there until we could fly home made us feel well taken care of during those terrible days. My heart breaks to see the changes that have taken place in Turkey over the last number of years.
I'm glad, at least, that there is some glimmer of hope!
