The most recent Time Out London (TOUT) e-zine edition carried a question about Britain's railways looming up to 11% fare increase and what difference it would make:

Londoners' POLL
Some rail fares are going up 11 per cent next year. What will commuters get?

A Faster, cleaner, more regular trains

B Free coffee and newspapers

C The same service as 2008, just slightly worse

Well if you do not answer C you simply have not been riding British trains. Just last year in a 10 day period of riding British trains i encountered numerous train cancellations, very late trains, three trains stopped in their tracks because of assaults on drivers or other passengers on the train ahead of mine - cattle car crowding in 2nd class and on regional trains, drivers simply not showing up and some diverted trains due to power failures, etc.

Last winter,in England, I did 12 days of train travel. From London to Morton-in-Marsh. M-in-M to Bridlington using three different lines. Bridlington to Ely, Ely to Cambridge, Ely to London, London to Whitstable and finally back to London. One train was delayed 10 minutes during the entire trip. I have no complaints.

Sorry you had such a bad experience.

Well i was using a lot of suburban London trains daily - old Network Southeast now Southeastern trains i believe and these were most of the problems

I did take several mainline trains that were on time, etc. except one to Manchester and back which had to be re-routed after electric power went out on most direct route.

Actually i do not mind the pertubations as i am rarely in a hurry and kind of find them comical - like when one train to Greenwich stopped on the tracks because 'an incident on the train ahead - an assault' and they told everyone for Greenwich to get off here (Lewisham) and take the DLR to Greenwich and change to another line to Dartford - and just after everyone cleared out then the train, after a few minutes, moved on like it was supposed to - i had stayed on the train but everyone else was scurrying via DLR, etc. This type of snafu is totally mind boggling to me and i rarely see such confusion elsewhere in Europe on trains.

Obviously C).

Apart from hops over to Glasgow I haven't used the train for years as when I look it's always expensive and we've had bad experiences with delays and/or non-existent (booked) seats in the past. Example of fare comaprison - last week I flew to Paris & back (at convenient times) for £62. I have been unable to find a return train fare to visit a friend in Sheffield for less than £84, at times I can travel.

P.S. I should have been more specific & said I haven't used the train in years *in the UK*. I happily use them abroad.

Of course U.K. trains are rubbish. They are too expensive and too crowded. That's something of a dilemma for the operators, since if the trains were cheaper, the overcrowding would get worse.

It's interesting to compare with the trains in other countries.

Euston - Birmingham. Distance 112 miles. 49 trains daily, all direct. Journey time 85 minutes.

Berlin - Leipzig. Distance 105 miles. 12 trains daily, 4 of which require a change. Journey time 70 minutes (direct trains)

San Diego - Los Angeles. Distance 128 miles. 11 trains daily, all direct. Journey time 165 minutes.

Which service do you prefer?

I've just taken the Leonardo "Express" to and from Fiumicino.

In Leonardo's day to take 42 minutes for the 12 mile journey would need an exceptionally slow, clapped out or ineptly ridden old nag. 1000 years earlier, the Emperors would have put imperial messengers taking so long on four weeks' lion-fighting in the Colosseum.

This masterpiece of dilatoriness needed climbing equipment to get on board. And they charge you extra for buying a ticket on the platform.

No wonder Italians - like most of Continental Europe - regard trains as prestige toys to show off but never actually use.

The awfulness of the British system is obviously why we use the things more than any other major country in the world.

Caroline edinburgh, The thing is that we in North America can purchase rail passes that make travel cheap. As a senior and an additional 20% winter discount, I can travel, 1st class for about $35 per day. And this is for any train ar any time, not just off peak trains.

Sorry, $35 per day in Britain.

>Berlin - Leipzig. Distance 105 miles. 12 trains daily, 4 of which require a change. Journey time 70 minutes (direct trains)


Out of interest I looked this up. It´s 12 DIRECT trains per day and 4 with a change - total of 16.

This is by the way one of the less important connections. Hard as it is for Britons and Frnch to wrap their mind around it, but Berlin is - economically and in regard to transportation - not a very important place for Germany.

You could also take Frankfurt-Cologne:
195 km (can´t bother with miles)
Fastest connection: 64 min
42 direct daily connections
28 connections with 1 change

Having twice used the Euston-Birmingham and using the Frankfurt-Cologne connection about 1-2x per month, I strongly prefer the latter. But I have to agree that the British trains are not such a catastrophe some Brits make them out to be.

H roger, interesting - but doesn't seem very fair !! (especially since the trains are theoretically privatised, but we as taxpayers are still subsidising them)

Yes, not fair, but I surely will continue to take advantage. In fact I sometimes don't use it daily, losing a day of travel which actually makes the next trip more costly. In many cases point to point ticket are cheaper if I am going just a short distance. Still, for long hauls it can't be beat.

If healthy,I plan on a February trip with a few days in Scotland.

> interesting - but doesn't seem very fair !!

2 years ago I went to an SBB counter in Switzerland and bought a fully flexible ticket (return) from East Croydon to Sheffield, for 65 SFr (less than 40 pound). No off-peak stuff, no name on the ticket, just take any train you like within 2 months.

The same ticket, if bought in UK, would cost me about triple, as I later found out.

Somebody is massively ripped off out there.

The BritRail passes (and England only pass, etc) can even be cheaper - from Nov 1 thru Feb 28 all passes are about 20% less - Off-Peak Special

and kids 15 and under get a free pass to match what the adult with them buys

and the PARTY PASS lets the 3rd thru 9th passenger on one pass pay only 50% of what the first two adults pay. Thus families with kids under 15 and groups of three or more get ridiculously great bargains IMO on British railpasses, which are not sold at stations in Britain since Britons can't use them. three good sites for info about British trains: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com - www.britrail.com is the official site of BritRail in the U.S./Canada.

Note- until privatized the whole system was British Rail - now they are nearly 30 indepedent rail franchcises under privitization some years ago now. Thus BritRail the term only survives in BritRail Passes, which can be used on all the various independent rail franchises. But you will see no trains with BritRail on them (except rusting old disused ones on sidings perhaps)

There was never any such thing as "Brit Rail" it was called British Rail. And it's not much missed.

CW - Has worked for British Rail in the dim and distant. In a shed. In a sidings. In Eastleigh. Grim.

For 67 francs (each) we have unlimited tram, bus and rail travel anywhere in our canton for an entire month.
Every 7 minutes, I can catch a tram across the street that takes me to a stop within a 2 min walk of my office or to the heart of town. It's clean, quiet, on time and the passengers are well-behaved.

For another 150 francs, we get 50% off all our Swiss rail travel for an entire year and 25% off rail travel in Germany and Austria (if we buy the tix in Switzerland). And the SBB staff search to find us the cheapest fares without being asked.

We're happy with the deal.

>>>>>
There was never any such thing as "Brit Rail" it was called British Rail.
>>>>>>

i say as i stiffen up my lip, suck in my stomach and cast my eyes down at the dirty americans who care disgrace one of our most cherished institutions by calling it 'brit rail'. we call your train company by its proper name 'america track'. we would never disgrace your train company by calling it something uncouth like 'amtrack'.

i'm so angry that i want to just go out and find a queue and...and...and just go wait in it.

or maybe i'll just go and apologise to someone for no reason at all.

i don't usually like to do something so unbritish as showing emotion but you people are driving me mad.

walkinaround:

Whew - take a breathe man. You know that anal as Britons seem to be about getting the proper title (Channel Tunnel for Chunnel) they really are harmless little bastards. So lighten up and perhaps go take a walk!

Never the less, the pass is sold as Britrail.

And those of us who subsidise it can't afford to get the trains ourselves.