I believe the franchises are trying to even out the past By structure where there may be say 50 different fares on some routes - all with a panoply of conditions and allotments of availability

thus you can get an incredibly cheap fare far in advance on the odd train yet to walk up means paying an absurdly high fare often

this has discouraged spur of the moment traffic of course and i believe the rail authority or whatever umbrella gov't group that oversees the railways has put into effect three major fare types only - not 50 and will raise the really cheap advance fares and reduce the walk up fares.

Presently the BritRail Pass is a bargain often compared to walk up or fully flexible tickets - Roger's example of $35/day in first class would be about 25 pounds and such a fully flexible first class ticket say London-Scotland walkup could then cost more than the entire pass. Passes can of course be used on any train anytime (and in nearly four decades of using passes in the U.K. i have never - never not found empty seats in first class (and almost always on long-distance trains reap the benefits of first class, like free tea or coffee the whole way or even better - on Virgin trains a veritable meal - gratis to first class full fare travelers.

They're called Virgin trains becuase they never go all the way.

I took Virgin trains from Brockehurst to York. Had two free meals. Then from Birmingham to London, free Stella and sandwich.

PalenQ, my original point is that I can never get a cheap fare even when trying to book 2/3 months in advance. I think there are very few of those fares & they must sell out within hours of going on sale.

caroline - i have noted several times your observations of those elusive fares that we constantly hear folks here extolling and your experience is very very telling that they are often few and far between on dates many folks want to travel,i guess.

thanks for the input and that is one reason a railpass, good for totally flexible travel, can be a bargain for many. Alas Brits cannot use the BritRail Passes however.

Hi PalQ. I guess I normally want to travel out on a Friday afternoon and back on Sunday afternoon or evening, and those are the worst times for getting reasonable fares. These passes do sound very good.

There are reasonable fares to be had (without any form of railcard, either) but they do need to be booked well in advance, and you have to travel off-peak.

The East Anglia - Exeter journey that I frequently do is £29 return, and I have no probs getting the low fares. It'd cost double that in petrol for the 500 mile round trip.

Commuters pay through the nose, and for a very overcrowded service at that, with the shorter distances paying proportionally a lot more than longer journeys.

But most tourists won't be needing to buy those premium tickets, so train travel round the UK can be affordeable for them....

The East Anglia - Exeter journey that I frequently do is £29 return

29 quid lets say $45

yet as roger points out he can travel fully flexible in first class with a pass for $35/day as opposed to your $45 in second class.

As a senior WITH a railcard.

Not really a valid comparison.

My experience of people complaining about high fares (and I'm not denying they exist) is either they are pricing peak travel, or deciding to book just a day or two in advance due to lack of forward planning.

Cheap fares sold out and cheap fares never being available are not the same thing....

<<I guess I normally want to travel out on a Friday afternoon and back on Sunday afternoon or evening, and those are the worst times for getting reasonable fares.>>

hi caroline/Pal

i guess i was just lucky - I got tickets for travel tomorrow from Cornwall to Paddington and back on Monday, for £65 ish.

I booked about 2 weeks ago. then they cancelled the meeting I was going for! but I'm going anyway.

regards, ann

You were lucky, Ann- well done ! Not sure you'd have been able to do that coming back on Sunday, though.

RM67, I have been trying to book as this particular journey to Sheffield as far in advance as tickets are on sale for, for several months now, but have seen no fares under £84 return for Fri-Sun travel. And in the past I always used to compare train fares with plane fares to London, generally 2 or 3 months ahead, and the train was always a lot more - >£100 as opposed to £50-70.

Caroline - you may have well have tried this already, but if not, click the '2 singles' option when doing your ticket search - it almost always comes back cheaper than the comparible return.

I do always try that too. Occasionally I have found a resaonably priced single out on the Friday, but never any back on the Sunday afternoon.

Forget Sheffield, then - go and see Ann in Cornwall instead - it'll be miles cheaper!

Let's all go see Annhig in Cornwall - pick a date and we'll be there. Ann will meet us at the station?