Hi All,

I wonder if somebody can help.

My husband and I would like to spend 4 days over Christmas 2009 in the black forest - this will be our first white christmas and we are hoping to make a big deal out of it. We would probably fly into Karlsruhe- Baden with Ryanair and take the train from then on wards.

We are looking for an affordable, typical German guesthouse or hotel that will make a big deal out of Christmas dinner etc in a smallish town with a train station where we would be able to really soak up the christmas spirit.. It would be a bonus if the town has a market but it is not essential to our trip.

Appreciate all your suggestions

Must it be the Black Forest? We spent time after Christmas in the Garmisch Partenkirchen area and I can recommend some wonderful options there or in Salzburg Austria. The toughest parts of your request may be ensuring snow (Garmisch was perfect the year we were there, but I've heard ski reports that you can't count on snow for sure that early in the season) and finding a cute little place that wants to serve you Christmas dinner rather than be home with their own family on that day.

I hope you get lots of replies. If you're open to other places like Garmisch and Salzburg, I'll be happy to share more info about them.

>this will be our first white christmas and we are hoping to make a big deal out of it.

Don't count on it. Even in the uplands like Black Forest, although you have a better chance of snow there than in the lowlands.

The expectation of "snow-covered Germany at Christmas" is pretty popular in some places, but unfortunately the climate is not that different from UK (I assume you are from there since you fly Ryanair). Including the probability of snow.

Trust the locals - the Black Forest cannot guarantee you snow at Christmas. There may be snow, there may be a bare greyish-green landscape under grey skies. The ski resorts in the Alps are about the only chance to be at least 90% sure of a white Christmas.

quokka, could you name some of the ski resorts in the Alps that are most likely to have snow please? Each year about this time--or earlier--I get going trying to find a place for a Christmas/New Year holiday that will provide good skiing for my son and some sightseeing for my husband and me. It would be so nice to have a ready list to start from. thanks.

Julie, everything at an elevation of about/more than 1500 m is (still) 99% snow reliable I'd say. Arosa, Upper Engadine, Saas Fee, Verbier e.g. in Switzerland. Lech/Zürs (St. Anton also, but slightly lower elevation), Ischgl, Serfaus/Fiss in Austria.

Also, I'd pick a resort that is located near the main crest of the Alps because those get snow from both south and north - might happen that only the south or only the north get a good dump of snow in early winter and although resorts are at high elevation they don't get any snow because they're just at the wrong side of the Alps. Often happens to the Italian Alps/Dolomites. Besides, towns in narrow, deep valleys like Sölden or Zermatt often don't get much snow while the surrounding mountains do.

Btw, the eastern mid-range mountains like Bayerischer Wald or Erzgebirge are more snow reliable than the Black Forest. ;-)

... and if any part of Germany deserves being considered "Christmas Country", it is the Erzgebirge/Ore Mountains.
;-) @ Ingo

Julie, sorry, I don't ski so I'm of no use here. There are other posters who are more competent concerning winter sports questions. Ingo has already listed some places to take into consideration.
However, I live close to the Black Forest and I remember years when the first snow of the season fell some time in January. The southwest is the warmest part of the country and with global warming snow in December is even less likely than it used to be.

Thanks quokka, and thanks Ingo. I was thinking to page you, Ingo, on this whole issue of ski sites. Thanks so much for jumping in with such useful info. This year we're going to Chamonix which I'm think from its elevation should be safe. But the info you've given, I have a good start for next year.

dracularsa, sorry to have jumped in on your thread, but the info seems to suggest that you might want to look at alternatives to the Black Forest area to ensure your longed for White Christmas. The year we stayed in Salzburg and took their ski bus to various places, I think I recall passing St. Anton. You might want to check out those areas as an alternative to Black Forest if there isn't something else drawing you there. Don't know where specifically you're coming from so can't comment on flight possibilities in the Salzburg area for you. Good luck finding your white Christmas dream.

You might consider the Wolfgangsee area of the Salzkammergut. St. Gilgen is our favorite. If you do a search on Fodor's for St. Gilgen at Christmas, there are a couple of trip reports that you might find helpful.

There's no guarantee that you'll have snow on the ground in Salzburg (or St. Gilgen) at Christmas, but it's very likely you'll have it on the mountains (so you can at least look at it). In the general Salzburg area, another possibility is Zell am See.

Salzburg itself is very festive at Christmas--and crowded!

IMHO, a Ryanair flight around Christmas sounds like a very bad start to the holidays ;-) The flights will be jammed. The luggage restrictions and fees can quickly jack up the price. Ryanair doesn't believe in any kind of customer service--what will you do if there are mechanical problems or your departure airport is fogged in?

Much better to catch a "regular" flight to Munich (for Salzburg) or Frankfurt or Basel (for the Black Forest).

Having lived in Stuttgart for a couple years, I can assure you that there is no guarantee of a white Christmas in the Black Forest. However, Stuttgart has one of the best Christmas markets in the country, although this fact seems to be overlooked by most non-Germans! You'll definitely need to look more at the Alps if you have your heart set on snow. St. Anton (Austria) was mentioned - it is more of a ski/party town, so probably not quite what you are looking for, but you might want to look at that area.

the ore mountains sounds really good to me.... fly to dresden, let ingo take you around for a day and then head off to the mountains....

another interesting place might be obersdorf, germany....we were there once in early december and the small town is beautiful with tons of snow and loads of B&B's....

I like BettyK suggestions. You cannot go wrong with those suggestions.

Sounds perfectly wonderful!

Hi There everybody

Thanks so much for all your suggestions!!! Much more than I expected. We are living in Dublin currently so might use either Ryanair/Air Lingus.

My husband and I are not really ski people - so don't think ski resorts etc will do. We would really like a place where Christmas is a big deal and I understand that snow can not be counted on.

I will looking into the above suggestions and post back about options. In the meantime I would really appreciate any accomodations suggestions - places where you where really treated well during the Christmas time. As I mentioned a good homely B&B or smaller hotel will do. We are not really in to expensive living but good memories.

Thanks so much

The Hochschwarzwald ("high black forest") has elevations above 1,000 meters. We have spend there 15+ times Christmas and in 90% of the cases we had snow - sometimes one meter. The Feldberg is ALWAYS snow-capped and skiable on Christmas.

Recommendable towns with a typical Christmas feel are Feldberg, Schluchsee, Altglashütten, Hinterzarten, Menzenschwand, Höchenschwand, Bernau.

The main problem is that most hotels will already be fully booked over Christmas.