Bernina or Glacier Express?

Old May 26th, 2015, 12:56 AM
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Bernina or Glacier Express?

Hello everyone! My parents and I will be spending our Christmas holidays in at least 3 cities in Europe -- namely Paris, Milan, and doing either the Bernina or Glacier express.

Question: Which should we do, the Bernina or the Glacier Express? Since we are flying in from Hong Kong, we are thinking of flying into Paris first for Christmas, and leave on the 26th to do the scenic train ride, then go to Milan for 3 nights, then back to Paris. Is this itinerary possible for 14-15 nights? Or any other suggestions?

I am so overwhelmed by the loads of info I find regarding these 2 scenic rides. Is it right that if I take the Bernina, I should start from Zurich then take the train ride to Chur?

Any help/suggestions are appreciated -- really desperate. And how do buy tickets?

Thank you in advance
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Old May 26th, 2015, 02:35 AM
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Frankly, these scenic train rides are not *that* scenic at this time of year. In summer it's the contrast between the green valleys and snow-capped mountains, the blue sky. In December you will be lucky if you catch a day when it's not foggy/cloudy so you'll see mountains at all. It'll most likely grey (and definitely not gree), hopefully white (snow).

I think you're probably better off going to one of the mountain resorts for a couple of days and enjoy the mountain scenery there - scenic rail trips are doable from any of them, even trips by cable car/gondola (or bus).
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Old May 26th, 2015, 02:55 AM
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Ingo is right.
IMO it doesn't make sense to stay all the day in a train anyway. But in December it's even worse, as it will be dark from 4pm until 8am.
It may be much nicer to view a Glacier Express - Bernina Express video than to travel through fog and darkness for hrs.

If you absolutely want to do this train ride however, it's very easy:
fly from Paris to Milan Malpensa airport, sleep at Gallarate, board there the Basel bound 7.57 train, change at Brig to the Glacier Express, spend the night at Chur, board then the 8.58 Bernina Express, change at Tirano and arrive at Milano Centrale at 15.40.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 04:00 AM
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Here are some superb sites for info on Swiss trains and specialty scenic trains - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com.

And yes in winter those train rides are not nearly as nice as in other seasons - days may be dark and dank too.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 04:40 AM
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Ok thank you. Glad I asked first before pursuing. I thought it was ok to do this because I read travel guides that it's nice both summer and winter, but better on winter.

So now, aside from Paris ( and some daytrips), and Milan, where else can we go? I thought of Rome, but a lot of blogs said that they're "closed" from 24th - 27th of December...

Need some recommendations please

Thank you
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Old May 26th, 2015, 05:56 AM
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Jennifer, I think you need to realize the actual schedule of the Bernina Express which may not even run over the Christmas holidays.

The usual diatribe from the above posters who have decided what makes these trips worthwhile or not is obviously subjective. Pal usually gets on here and whine about how the Glacier Express is "overrated" and the absurd comment about people spending too much time in trains is useless IMO.

I think the Bernina is more scenic than the Glacier and I have done both trains several times in Winter and well as in the Summer.

I guess I was really stupid to do so.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 07:19 AM
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The Bernina has the edge on scenery - and as it goies north-south towards Milan, it's the obvious one to pick over the Glacier Express which goes east-west across Switzerland.

Any time of year is worth doing it - though height of summer or depths of winter ideal, in-between times less so.

Paris-Zurich by high-speed train takes just 4h05 from 25 euros www.capitainetrain.com

For Zurich-Chur-Tirano-Milan see http://www.seat61.com/BerninaExpress...urich_to_Italy

There's a clever way to travel Zurich-Chur-Tirano for just 29 euros, then Tirano-Milan costs only 11 euros, see http://www.seat61.com/BerninaExpress...Express_for_29
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Old May 26th, 2015, 09:25 AM
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<Pal usually gets on here and whine about how the Glacier Express is "overrated" and the absurd comment about people spending too much time in trains is useless IMO.>

Yup as a professional journalist who specialized for years in European rail I adamantly state that THE GLACIER EPXRESS IS THE MOST OVERHYPED AND OVER PUBLICIZED TRAIN IN EUROPE - bar none. Dukey has ridden it once it seems - I've ridden it for research purposes several times and after a few hours typical passengers become more interesting in their unique tilting wine glasses and what is in it than the for Switzerland ho-hum scenery.

Dukey loves it and loves the 8-hour marathon - many many others feel like me.

Forget the Glacier Express and take the fantastic Bernina Express - yes short and sweet - a few hours up and over the Alps not dead straight thru them but never up and over for the Top of the World atmosphere you get on the Bernina Express.
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Old May 26th, 2015, 02:23 PM
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the absurd comment about people spending too much time in trains is useless IMO.>

What is SO absurd as telling folks it's an 8-9 hour marathon ride, thru mostly similar repetitive scenery for much of it - if that is whining yes I'm guilty - I try to give an objective approach from the aspect of an average traveler who may be considering this marathon ride expecting thrilling scenery the whole way - even the name The Glacier Express is hokey:

At one time the Glacier Express did indeed run right by glaciers but when the Furka Pass base tunnel was opened (to allow year-round running of the GEX mainly) and the old line up and over the Furka Pass was abandoned then the glaciers you did indeed see from the pass now are out of view because the train tunnels under all that.

Hey if you love sitting on a train for 8-9 hours as Dukey does go for it but bring a good book or Kindle!
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Old May 26th, 2015, 06:06 PM
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Hello again everyone. As you will see from my post above, we have already decided not to pursue the scenic train ride. Instead, I have already asked another question....

We are already settled with Paris and Milan, but lack one more city. What would you guys suggest?

Amsterdam is out because I saw the video from Rick Steves' website and it's kinda boring. Rome is out because several websites and travel guides said that they'll be closed from 24th - 27th of December, and a lot, if not all, of the tourist spots will be closed ( correct?). Switzerland is also out because it's expensive =).

Suggestions please....

BTW, thank you for your inputs PalenQ, etc, but no need to fight over that train issue anymore.

Thanks guys
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Old May 27th, 2015, 03:14 AM
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I have absolutely nothing against Tirano. But in my opinion, Venice may be a bit more interesting than Tirano. But if you leave Venice in the evening, your train will go up to Sondrio only. Therefore it would make sense to sleep at Sondrio or even along Lake Como, as the 10.03 train at Tirano can easily be reached from there in the morning.

BTW: Italian railway strikes are always announced weeks ahead. The next one will take place on June 7th in Liguria; it seems that fast trains will not be affecte, however.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 03:54 AM
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Amsterdam is out because I saw the video from Rick Steves' website and it's kinda boring.>

Amsterdam boring? wow - one of the least boring places on the planet and one of themost gorgeously scenic as well - something for everyone!
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Old May 27th, 2015, 05:56 AM
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Rome is out because several websites and travel guides said that they'll be closed from 24th - 27th of December, and a lot, if not all, of the tourist spots will be closed ( correct?>

NOT correct - many things will be open and being in Rome during Christmas means hearing some great church choirs singing old favorites like Silen Night - Rome takes on a special feel during Christmas. Colosseum, Forum should be open except 24 and 25 I would think - not sure could be open on 24 - but many of Rome's lures are free - the Piazza Navona and the Bernini Fountain - The Three Coins in a Fountain (Trevi) Fountain, etc.
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Old May 27th, 2015, 06:26 PM
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Ok Thank you PalenQ. Very helpful
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Old May 28th, 2015, 03:56 AM
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Thanks - one reason for heading south during that time is the much better weather in a place like Rome - northern Europe never gets freezing cold for long but days are dank and dark - weather would be a factor in my decision-making on this.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 05:10 AM
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I've taken the Bernina Express around Christmas and thought it was pretty spiffy. Lots of natural eye candy.

BUT..given your itinerary, I recommend taking an early TGV from Paris to Montreux (change from TGV to local train in Geneva). Have a snack. Then catch the 12:44 Golden Pass from Montreux to Zweisimmen. If you wish, get off in Gstaad for a glass of wine or another snack. Get back on the train to Zweisimmen (or simply continue on if you decided not to get off), switch to the direct (no changes) train to Bern (the Lotschberger). Get to Bern late afternoon/early evening, check into a hotel, have a wander in the arcades, admire all the beautiful Christmas decorations, have dinner, do some more wandering the next morning, then catch the early afternoon (about 1:30 pm) direct EC train to Milan. You'll see more pretty scenery on the way.

I've taken some short videos of the train ride between Gstaad and Zweisimmen in early winter -- if you provide an email address, I'll be happy to send them to you via wetransfer.com and you can see for yourself what the ride is like.

The other big change I'd also suggest is fly home from Milan (if that's where you want to go) or Zurich if you're not interested in actually going to Milan. It's, IMO, a waste of time and money to go from Milan to Paris then back. But it's your trip, so do what you want!
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