kipper1

Hi,
I am going to Germany for a month this summer and have a variety of questions.
#1. What is the most economical way of train travel for two:
Munich to Salzburg, Bayern ticket?
Salzburg to Nuremberg, Bayern Ticket?
Nuremberg to Dresden? Weekend Ticket? We travel on a Saturday.
Dresden to Berlin? (Travel on a Monday)
Or, would the second class twin ticket make sense for us for these four train rides?

#2. Are all German train tickets valid the day of arrival for free public transportation in Munich? in Nuremberg? Dresden? Berlin?

#3. I am meeting my husband at the Munich Airport and we will go to Salzburg. We need to travel to the Munich Train Station. If I buy our train tickets in advance in Munich (I will be there before) meet him at the airport, can both of us take the train from Munich Airport to Munich Hbf. using our tickets to Salzburg and not have to pay the 11 or so Euros each, and then use the ticket on the train to go to Salzburg?
Or must you first use the train and then can get free public transportation?

#4. Are all train tickets for a specific time and specific train? Can you exchange them if you miss your train or want to go earlier?

#5. I would need a to buy our return Bayern ticket in Munich so when we return to Germany from Salzburg, we can get that discounted rate.

Thanks guys.

bob_brown

I can answer some but not all of your questions.

At least I will re top the thread so others will see it and supplement what I know.

#1 For Munich Salzburg, the cheapest way is the Bayern Ticket. During the week you can travel on Regional Trains from 9 am onward until 3:00 the following morning. One ticket is good for up to 5 family members.

According to the website the Bayern ticket is good on the S-Bahn and the U-Bahn, busses and street cars as well. I will quote the German: Sie gelten auch in allen Verbundverkehrsmitteln (S-, U-, Straßenbahnen und Bussen)

On Saturdays and Sundays, you can travel any time with the Bayern Ticket.

Salzburg to Nürnberg can be done on one Bayern ticket subject to the day and time limitations.

Nürnberg to Dresden can be done with the Weekend Ticket. Das Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket as it is known in German. It costs €35.00 and both of you can ride on one ticket. (up to 5 possible)

To Berlin from Dresden is €29.00 per person.

#2 I don't know the answer to #2. I would hazard a guess and say no. But others will know for sure.

For #3. It all depends on timing. If you leave the airport after 9:00 you can ride the whole way on one Bayern Ticket during the week. From the airport you do NOT need to go to the main station. You can change at the München Ost station. You have about 17 minutes between trains and need to change platforms from 1 to 8. That amount of time should be sufficient for a normal person.


#4. If you buy a Bayern Ticket, it is good for that day only, AND it is good ONLY on Regional Trains. You can NOT use it on IC, EC and ICE trains.

If you buy a reduced fare ticket, such as from Munich to Nürmberg, you have to use it on the specified date and train. The prices apply to the express train that make the trip in a little over an hour. Buy ahead and you can get a ticket for €29 per person.

#5. My understanding is that the Bayern Ticket is valid the whole period for multiple trips, e.g. from 9 am until 3 am the following morning. However the last train from Salzburg leaves shortly after 9 pm, or 21:18.

Musicteacher

To add to Bob's answers:

2. Only Bayern and other regional tickets, not regular point-to-point tickets are valid on local transportation. And the Bayern ticket will get you to Salzburg but is not valid on local transportation in Salzburg.

5. You can buy your return Bayern Ticket in Salzburg. There is an Austrian (OeBB) Ticket counter and a German (DB) Ticket counter. (I assume you are staying in Salzburg until another day.)

bob_brown

To add one more tidbit. The Deutsche Bahn actually is the rail line into Salzburg. That is why the ticket is good. There are even separate ticket offices for the DB as opposed to the ÖBB, the Austrian system.

If you want to go to Munich, you go to the DB window.

Kufstein also in Austria is included in the Bayern Ticket as well.

There is also a night ticket version of the Bayern Ticket that is even cheaper than the all day one.

Be sure to note that the types of trains on which the Bayern Ticket is valid are limited to trains designed

IRE, RE, RB und S-Bahn. The u-Bahn is also included in the ticket.
These trains take longer, particularly on some trips. I did the Bayern Karte bit to Salzburg one year just to see what it was like.\
Slow trip.

There is some provision in the union contract that DB locomotive drivers are assigned to the S-Bahn trains. When the drivers were on strike, they were able to shut down just about all commuter traffic.

By the way, we are not recalling all this data off the top of our heads or from memory. I needed to refresh my own knowledge because I will be in Munich in 60 days.

The best source of rail information for much of Western Europe is the Deutsche Bahn web site.

Between the DB and the ÖBB you can get good information in English.
That said, I once got a reply:
I was raised by German parents.

You can start drilling down to more and more detail from here.

http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml

Or here ÖBB.AT
The funny Ö is made with the alt key depressed and typing 1 5 3 on the numerical key pad.

Yep, we learn a lot from this board.
My trips would poorer without it.
My first trip to Paris was vastly facilitated by the contributors.

Ingo

2. Only if you have a Bahncard and purchase a rail ticket with the option "City Ticket" then you have one ride on buses/trams in the cities free upon arrival and before departure.

From Nürnberg to Dresden the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket is really your best bet since the direct trains are regional trains anyway (via Zwickau, Chemnitz).

From Dresden to Berlin it is maybe cheaper to buy regular tickets than buying a Sachsen-Ticket and a Berlin-Brandenburg-Ticket. It also saves you one change in Elsterwerda and a half hour time at least.

I.

bob_brown

I thought for sure this thread would have elicited more responses.

For all potential German travelers, the German version of the Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket or the beautiful weekend ticket includes details that the English version does not include.

I have included the German version for readers if German. I will give my clumsy English summary here as well. I included the full text because I may well screw up on the German.

The ticket is good for single riders, groups up to 5 people, or families provided both parents, or one parent and one grandparent, or one of the above (Max of 2 adults) are with their own children-grandchildren under 15.

The ticket is valid on local trains including those indicated by S-Bahn, RB, IRE, RE.

Non federally owned trains in Poland are included. The same rules as in Germany apply in 2nd class. [I don't have a clue what this means. Somebody who knows the Polish system will HAVE to clarify.]

If you buy your ticket on the train, it will cost you €3.50 more.

On local transportation in Bavaria and on private lines within the federated system, you cannot buy the weekend ticket on the train. Know the rules before you get on board.

The ticket is valid from midnight Friday or midnight Saturday until 3 am the following day for multiple trips.

Returns, exchanges, and refunds are not possible. First class travel and seat reservations are also not possible. Once the trip starts, you cannot expand the size of the group by adding more people.


HERE I NEED HELP. IF you read German fluently, look below at the sentence with VERKEHRSVERBÜND.

Does this mean what I interpreted it to mean? Like if I was riding an ALX train in Bavaria I could NOT buy my weekend ticket on that train?

The dictionaries say something like integrated transportation system or linked transport system which to me has no practical meaning.


Wer?
Das Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket gilt für
* Einzelreisende,
* Gruppen bis zu fünf Personen oder
* ein Eltern-/Großelternpaar oder Eltern/Großeltern (max. 2 Erwachsene) mit beliebig vielen eigenen Kindern/Enkeln unter 15 Jahren

Wo?
Das Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket gilt in allen Nahverkehrszügen der DB AG (S-Bahn, RB, IRE, RE), in vielen Verkehrsverbünden und Nichtbundeseigenen Eisenbahnen gemäß der dortigen Regelung in der 2. Klasse sowie in Polen.

Wenn Sie Ihr Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket im Zug kaufen, wird der Bordpreis von EUR 35,- für das Ticket plus 10 Prozent, also 3,50 EUR, erhoben (35,- + 3,50 = 38,50 EUR).
Bitte beachten Sie, dass innerhalb von Verkehrsverbünden und in allen Nahverkehrszügen von DB Regio Bayern ein Nachlösen im Zug nicht möglich ist. Bitte beachten Sie vor dem Einstieg die jeweils geltenden Bestimmungen.

Wann?

Das Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket gilt samstags oder sonntags von 0.00 Uhr bis 3.00 Uhr des Folgetages für beliebig viele Fahrten.

Rückgabe, Umtausch und Erstattung nicht benutzter Tickets sowie 1.-Klasse-Fahrten und Platzreservierungen sind nicht möglich. Eine Erweiterung der Gruppengröße nach Fahrtantritt ist nicht zugelassen.

Cowboy1968

"Verkehrsverbund" designates a Public Transit System where several transport companies share one fare system. The main advantage is that you can transfer from local train to subway to bus with just one ticket until you reached your final destination.

The Schönes-Wochenend-Ticket (SWT) website lists the "Verkehrsverbünde" where the SWT is honored.

Deutsche Bahn regional rail services are often/usually part of those transit systems. But: Unlike long-distance trains, you sometimes cannot buy tickets on board of Deutsche Bahn regional services. If you board these trains without a ticket, and get caught, you will pay a fine.

Deutsche Bahn regional services in Bavaria are all under this regime: Buy your ticket before you board the train.

Other rail companies than Deutsche Bahn (like Alex/ Arriva) may sell tickets on board, or not.

In order to avoid any confusion, I would always buy the SWT from a ticket machine before you board a train - so you are always on the safe side.


Other remarks:

Railways in Poland are only included for those short legs to the next city after the border (similar as for Austria with Salzburg and Kufstein being included).

kipper1

Hey guys,
You’ve ALL been so very helpful. Thank you. I have a few questions based on your responses.

#1. Bob, you said that from the airport you do NOT need to go to the main station. You can change at the München Ost station. You have about 17 minutes between trains and need to change platforms from 1 to 8.
This information is very important to us as we will be starting our trip to Salzburg from Munich Airport. Could you please give me more specific information as to how we should get to the correct train? Does the Munich Ost train station start from the airport? Is that where the Bayern ticket starts? Can we buy this Bayern ticket at the airport? Are their frequent trains to Salzburg from there on a Monday between 13 and 14 o’clock?

# 2. FREE CONNECTIONS: (Still confused)
Ingo said, “Only if you have a Bahncard and purchase a rail ticket with the option "City Ticket" then you have one ride on buses/trams in the cities free upon arrival and before departure.”
We do not have a Bahn card and it would not make sense to get one.

Therefore, what connection comes with the tickets I can buy?
Bob, you said the Bayern ticket gives all three connections. Musicteacher elaborates that “Only Bayern and other regional tickets, not regular point-to –point tickets are valid on local transportation. So, the Bayern and Weekend ticket are in this category?

#3. From Dresden to Berlin Ingo said it is maybe cheaper to buy regular tickets than buying a Sachsen-Ticket and a Berlin-Brandenburg-Ticket. Which of these special tickets (Sachsen or Brrandenburg) would apply to Dresden to Berlin on a Monday and what is the cost?

It also saves you one change in Elsterwerda and a half hour time at least.
I would buy a regular ticket from the machine on the day of travel? That would be one of those point-to-point tickets for 29 E a piece and when I get to Berlin, need to pay for the S Bahn.

Hopefully, I can put these issues to rest.
Danke.

Cowboy1968

Going from Munich Airport to Salzburg is easy when you remember a few things:

Two suburban train (S-Bahn) lines start at Munich airport: S1 and S8.
Even though S1 will go to Munich East (Ostbahnhof, in German), you want to take any S8 train leaving from the airport. It gets to Munich East much faster, on a more direct route. This often confuses people who need to go to Munich East.

At Munich East, the S8 train will arrive at track 1. You will have two exits, but only that exit next to the elevator will go to the pedestrian tunnel which connects track 1 with tracks 7 and up. So, look for the elevator and use that or the stairs next to it.

At Munich East station, the suburban train platforms are designated with "Ostbahnhof" signs, while the long-distance tracks have "München Ost" signs.

And yes, you can get the Bayern Ticket already at the airport (either at the ticket machines, or at the ticket counters).

For train schedules you should check www.bahn.de, but there is one regional train from Munich to Salzburg per hour. 17 minutes at Munich East is more than enough time to change platforms. You won't need more than 3-5 minutes.

PalenQ

Railpass should not be dismissed IF

you require taking the fastest trains and routes - regional passes i believe cannot be used on ICE or IC trains which are not only quicker but IME much more plush

with a pass you can board any train anytime with the rare exceptions of a handful of ICESrpinter trains that you will never come in contact with.

That said you seem to have an understanding of how regional passes and the weekend thing can work and this would be your cheapest option if that is your criteria and with Lander passes they do also cover local buses, trams, etc.

The German railpass would only cover S-Bahns in cities because they are run by the railways i believe (but only on days you use the flexible travel days on the pass)

You can buy regional or Lander passes in the newer automatic ticket machines in any main German station IME

For pass info, passes and lots on German trains i always recommend www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - two sites with much more than the usual pass prices and click on to buy options with most online agents IME

that said again i think the regional passes, etc. are what you want

And man Bob sure does give a lot of great info for folks to make informed decisions (and cowboy and ingo as well)

bob_brown

I think others have answered the Munich East question better than I could have.

I should have point out that there are indeed two S-Bahn lines that serve the Munich airport. They both take somewhat circular routes, but in opposite directions.

So read the advice above.

17 minutes is plenty of time to change platforms. I have changed in other stations in less time than that.

By the way, Ingo I know knows Europe far better than I. Cowboy is also a fine source of very detailed info.

I cheat. I look it up on the web site!! I usually struggle through the German version because it often has detailed information that the English version lacks at times.

There are some rail lines where you cannot by the Weekend ticket on the train. I don't think that will ever be a factor for me, but one never knows. That tidbit was not in the English version.

Thank heavens for Leo, the on-line German - English dictionary at www.leo.org

PalenQ

Munich Ost is at least a lot smaller station than the Hauptbahnhof and 18 minutes if fine and if not in 42 mins there should be another train anyway it would seem

Bob regardless of where you get the info it's a wealth of resources that is appreciated

Ingo

I am afraid I was not clear enough in my response. I try again since nobody else replied to those questions.

If you buy point-to-point tickets they are valid only from the train station to the other for which you buy it. No local public transportation included (since you won't have a Bahncard etc.) You need to buy a ticket for local public transportation in this case, right upon arrival in the city and before boarding the tram or bus or whatever.

The Bayern-Ticket and the Berlin-Brandenburg-Ticket are valid for all regional/local trains AND the buses and trams and S-Bahn/U-Bahn in the respective state (Bavaria or Berlin-Brandenburg). The Bayern-Ticket is valid to/from Salzburg. I recommend to buy the Bayern-Ticket for the ride back from Salzburg already on the day when you buy the Bayern-Ticket TO Salzburg, in Bavaria (you can choose the exact date of validity) at a ticket machine.

The Sachsen-Ticket is not yet valid on public transportation like trams and buses in Dresden. It will change, but too late for you.

The Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket is valid for bus/tram/S-Bahn/U-Bahn in Munich. Again, not in Dresden.

I checked the train connections Dresden-Berlin. I doubt you'll get a special fare 29 Euro on a Monday. But you can try. The regular fare for the EC trains is 35 Euro. E.g. Dep. 11.03 am, Arr. 1.13 pm.

Considering that the point-to-point ticket doesn't include public transportation in Berlin I'd recommend you purchase the Sachsen-Ticket and the Berlin-Brandenburg-Ticket and use the regional trains. For example:
Dep. Dresden 11.10 am
Arr. Elsterwerda 12.13 pm
Dep. Elsterwerda 12.26 pm
Arr. Berlin 2.28 pm

The Sachsen-Ticket is 27 Euro I think, the Berlin-Brandenburg-Ticket is 26 Euro.

Hope you can put the issues to rest ;-)

Ingo

PalenQ

I'll chime in however that EC trains are a lot more comfortable than regional trains IME - especially when schoolkids swarm aboard for a few stops and they become SRO - this has happened more than a few times on regional trains in Germany

Regional trains i've been on are apt to have hard seats - EC cushy

Ingo

Correct in general, Pal. However, the regional trains between Dresden and Berlin are not much frequented by school kids (and at that time of day it is improbably anyway). They are quite comfy IMO.

The EC trains between Dresden and Berlin, on the other hand, can be very old, dirty, no aircondition etc. Quite a lot of them are operated by the Czech Railways, some also by the Hungarian Railways. I've had bad luck before.

I.

bob_brown

I agree with PalQ on both issues.
That has been my experience not only in Germany but also in Switzerland where the school kids get a huge discount on the trains and buses.

I have yet to see in either nation a vehicle that looked like a Blue Bird yellow school bus. They may exist, but I have not identified one.

Ingo

Bob,

we actually have such an original American yellow school bus in our neighbourhood. It is owned by a private bus company and mostly used for senior bus (coach?) trips.

To clarify why the regional trains Dresden-Berlin won't see a lot of schoolkids: kids go to school early morning (not after 9 am and only then a Länderticket is valid) and back later in the afternoon.

Also, since these regional trains do not stop in small villages the kids can't use them to get to their school town. They rely on buses - like most kids do in Saxony. Only along major commuter train routes (like S-Bahn 1 along the Elbe valley) you have a lot of school kids in trains.

I.

bob_brown

Given the relatively poor public transportation systems in the US, and the suburban sprawl that characterizes most American cities, the US has school buses in profusion.

The University of Georgia has the second largest bus system in the state. Only Marta in Atlanta is larger, but it is huge by comparison.

PalenQ

But Ingo are you saying that the typical Dresdener would do the two regional trains with a change if wanting to go to Berlin

I don't think so and why is the question - i would rather be on a train and not have to change, esp with luggage rather than have to get off half way and then get on another regional train, which could possible at times be rather crowded, etc.

Cheapest is not always the best IMO

But maybe i am wrong and Dresdeners would do the method you are recommending to say a few euro?

Ingo

Pal, LOL, I don't know about the typical Dresdner.

I know what I did when I flew to the U.S. last year from Berlin-Tegel. my parents and I did take the regional trains with a change, we had a LOT of luggage and it was not in the slightest a problem. (on the trip back we had even more luggage; my American friends suggested we better rent a freight train ;-) )

I personally would save the few bucks and take the regional trains. But to each their own.