Avoiding museums in Italy
Nov 16th, 2019, 09:15 AM
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Avoiding museums in Italy
I am trying to plan a 10-day trip to Italy with my daughter. I know she will not want to spend her time in museums. Neither of us has ever been to Italy, though I have traveled independently in the U.K. and also made several guided trips to Africa. We do not speak any Italian. She loves wine and is gluten free--not by choice. Any suggestions?
Nov 16th, 2019, 09:21 AM
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No one is forcing you to go into museums and actually Italy is one big open-air museum anyway.
"We do not speak any Italian."
You can easily manage with English, but try to learn as much Italian as you can, it's a beautiful and easy language and knowing even only 100 words goes a long way.
"She loves wine and is gluten free.'
There's no shortage of good wines in Italy and she shall not go hungry if she has to avoid gluten. Tasty salads, meats, fish, no problem.
"We do not speak any Italian."
You can easily manage with English, but try to learn as much Italian as you can, it's a beautiful and easy language and knowing even only 100 words goes a long way.
"She loves wine and is gluten free.'
There's no shortage of good wines in Italy and she shall not go hungry if she has to avoid gluten. Tasty salads, meats, fish, no problem.
Nov 16th, 2019, 09:58 AM
#6
1) learn the top 40 words, hello, good morning, thank you, you're welcome etc most good guide books will have them in the back
2) loads to do in most towns, how do you feel about art, opera, football, lovely vistas, beaches, icecream. No, well step away from Italy
3) foods, Italy has the most celiacs in the world for example and Italians love talking about food, so, to be sure check using google translate "I must not eat glutten" into Italian. Write it on a small piece of card and when the waiter comes, hand it to him or speak the words. He will advise on the menu and maybe check with chef, but Italians take their food very seriously.
4) They also take their manners very seriously but understand that you are North American. So, say hello, thank you and goodbye (ciao, grazie ciao) when you go into a restaurant, cafe or a shop. Behave as your parents might have and speak clearly and directly to people and they will love it, try and speak Italian and they will be great, mumble in some street argot and you might as well forget it.
2) loads to do in most towns, how do you feel about art, opera, football, lovely vistas, beaches, icecream. No, well step away from Italy
3) foods, Italy has the most celiacs in the world for example and Italians love talking about food, so, to be sure check using google translate "I must not eat glutten" into Italian. Write it on a small piece of card and when the waiter comes, hand it to him or speak the words. He will advise on the menu and maybe check with chef, but Italians take their food very seriously.
4) They also take their manners very seriously but understand that you are North American. So, say hello, thank you and goodbye (ciao, grazie ciao) when you go into a restaurant, cafe or a shop. Behave as your parents might have and speak clearly and directly to people and they will love it, try and speak Italian and they will be great, mumble in some street argot and you might as well forget it.
Nov 16th, 2019, 10:32 AM
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A good guidebook will help you narrow down your choices, based on your interests. It might be fun for you and your daughter to take an afternoon and peruse some books, watch a bit of travel video, and come up with some ideas. Italy is a big, diverse country. Doing the research is half the fun.
Nov 16th, 2019, 02:45 PM
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1) learn the top 40 words, hello, good morning, thank you, you're welcome etc most good guide books will have them in the back
2) loads to do in most towns, how do you feel about art, opera, football, lovely vistas, beaches, icecream. No, well step away from Italy
3) foods, Italy has the most celiacs in the world for example and Italians love talking about food, so, to be sure check using google translate "I must not eat glutten" into Italian. Write it on a small piece of card and when the waiter comes, hand it to him or speak the words. He will advise on the menu and maybe check with chef, but Italians take their food very seriously.
4) They also take their manners very seriously but understand that you are North American. So, say hello, thank you and goodbye (ciao, grazie ciao) when you go into a restaurant, cafe or a shop. Behave as your parents might have and speak clearly and directly to people and they will love it, try and speak Italian and they will be great, mumble in some street argot and you might as well forget it.
2) loads to do in most towns, how do you feel about art, opera, football, lovely vistas, beaches, icecream. No, well step away from Italy
3) foods, Italy has the most celiacs in the world for example and Italians love talking about food, so, to be sure check using google translate "I must not eat glutten" into Italian. Write it on a small piece of card and when the waiter comes, hand it to him or speak the words. He will advise on the menu and maybe check with chef, but Italians take their food very seriously.
4) They also take their manners very seriously but understand that you are North American. So, say hello, thank you and goodbye (ciao, grazie ciao) when you go into a restaurant, cafe or a shop. Behave as your parents might have and speak clearly and directly to people and they will love it, try and speak Italian and they will be great, mumble in some street argot and you might as well forget it.
Italy is one of the most popular tourist destination in the world. 'North American' has nothing to do with anything. Not even sure if the OP is 'North American'. Nor do most people understand what the heck behaving like your parents might have is supposed to mean. You're YOU, not your parents. Don't try to behave like your parents might have. Please don't. Whatever that's supposed to mean. Not mumbling 'some street argot'???? Whatever that means. Yes, do learn basic Italian greetings but don't be turned paranoid by this weird and insulting advice that's trying to (ever so politely) say that you're a slob because you're 'North American' (well, 'American', let's not dance around). You'll be fine. There are tourists from all over the world in Italy. They can handle people from other places. They are used to it. Don't worry about it. Be yourself. Be careful of those who have an agenda of trying to teach you that you are second class. Americans in Italy are welcomed more warmly than some people, for example, those whose football supporters visit just to get stupidly drunk and cause problems. YOu don't need anyone to make excuses for you by 'understanding you are North American'. Seriously, sometimes nonsense needs to be called out exactly for what it is.
Nov 16th, 2019, 10:54 PM
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Wow, nonsense? I don't think bilboburgler was saying anyone was a slob or second class. I have been to Italy many times, and he is right that they appreciate good manners and someone who at least tries to speak a bit of the language. Doesn't need to be a lot, just the effort is appreciated. When he mentioned behaving like your parents, I think he means being polite and respecting the culture.
Nov 17th, 2019, 02:15 AM
#10
Thanks, Susan you make my point very well.
Interestingly so does walkin' but in a very different way
@OP, if you are just going to visit the normal tourist restaurants and hotels then just behave as you would at home, they are in the business of giving good "international" Italy. If you want to join in, only a little bit, with the Italian nation of families the best tips I can offer are slow down, breath, enjoy the moment and say hello to people.
I was in Sicily recently and an American 40 year old walked into a bar ahead of me and said to the barman, "give me a coffee" while still looking at his phone. The barman looked at me over the kid's shoulder as if thinking "is that guy connected in some way?" I stepped away. When I ordered my coffee, I greeted the barman and I asked (asked as opposed to demanded) for a coffee. (four easy words in Italian) and a smile. My coffee came with a biscuit and a chat....
I would mention "tips" but that normally brings the NA contingent out in a rash, so just search tip and tipping in the search engine above.
Interestingly so does walkin' but in a very different way
@OP, if you are just going to visit the normal tourist restaurants and hotels then just behave as you would at home, they are in the business of giving good "international" Italy. If you want to join in, only a little bit, with the Italian nation of families the best tips I can offer are slow down, breath, enjoy the moment and say hello to people.
I was in Sicily recently and an American 40 year old walked into a bar ahead of me and said to the barman, "give me a coffee" while still looking at his phone. The barman looked at me over the kid's shoulder as if thinking "is that guy connected in some way?" I stepped away. When I ordered my coffee, I greeted the barman and I asked (asked as opposed to demanded) for a coffee. (four easy words in Italian) and a smile. My coffee came with a biscuit and a chat....
I would mention "tips" but that normally brings the NA contingent out in a rash, so just search tip and tipping in the search engine above.
Nov 17th, 2019, 03:30 AM
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What towns - or at least regions - in Italy are you considering? For 10 days you need to pick two or three bases. The 'usual' suspects are Rome - Florence - Venice. And you would fly into Venice and out of Rome. But there are certainly many other options. Even just picking one base and then doing day trips works well in that amount of time. Others have already told you that you don't need to worry about language - just learn the few polite greetings and be pleasant. As to museums, obviously just don't go to them. I rarely spend time in a major museum the first time I visit a city - just walking around, visiting piazzas, and churches (lots of art but in smaller doses than a museum and in Italy usually free), etc. I usually put together walking tours from several guide books and do them on my own.
Nov 17th, 2019, 06:01 AM
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Thanks, Susan you make my point very well.
Interestingly so does walkin' but in a very different way
@OP, if you are just going to visit the normal tourist restaurants and hotels then just behave as you would at home, they are in the business of giving good "international" Italy. If you want to join in, only a little bit, with the Italian nation of families the best tips I can offer are slow down, breath, enjoy the moment and say hello to people.
I was in Sicily recently and an American 40 year old walked into a bar ahead of me and said to the barman, "give me a coffee" while still looking at his phone. The barman looked at me over the kid's shoulder as if thinking "is that guy connected in some way?" I stepped away. When I ordered my coffee, I greeted the barman and I asked (asked as opposed to demanded) for a coffee. (four easy words in Italian) and a smile. My coffee came with a biscuit and a chat....
I would mention "tips" but that normally brings the NA contingent out in a rash, so just search tip and tipping in the search engine above.
Interestingly so does walkin' but in a very different way
@OP, if you are just going to visit the normal tourist restaurants and hotels then just behave as you would at home, they are in the business of giving good "international" Italy. If you want to join in, only a little bit, with the Italian nation of families the best tips I can offer are slow down, breath, enjoy the moment and say hello to people.
I was in Sicily recently and an American 40 year old walked into a bar ahead of me and said to the barman, "give me a coffee" while still looking at his phone. The barman looked at me over the kid's shoulder as if thinking "is that guy connected in some way?" I stepped away. When I ordered my coffee, I greeted the barman and I asked (asked as opposed to demanded) for a coffee. (four easy words in Italian) and a smile. My coffee came with a biscuit and a chat....
I would mention "tips" but that normally brings the NA contingent out in a rash, so just search tip and tipping in the search engine above.
Anyway, I don't think Americans need to be told to say 'hello' to people. Few countries are as friendly to strangers. Ironic that a Brit is trying to teach Americans to say hello to people! Peace. I'm just telling it like I see it. Nothing personal as I value your posts on this board.
Nov 17th, 2019, 07:06 AM
#13
The OP comes from NA.
A good Italian "front of house" person will have clocked you as an American by your clothes, your body language and your accent in milliseconds. That is not an insult but that is how they make money by making customers feel at home and in the high tourist areas that is what they do day in day out.
Italy has a different culture to NA, they have amazing local accents/dialects, strong families and many will not leave their home city except for holidays. But they may well have been to New York!
Interestingly, Italian Universities even do research into this stuff and some of their measures are all about the structure of courtesy and use of "please, thank you and hi". I know this because this is a major hobby of mine.
Very few Italians speak English, but the vast majority of Italians the OP will meet speak English very well.
Italians really do love people who visit their country and who make an effort with Italian because Italian is a dying language (see birth rate )
Saying Hello, how are you and 'bye even if you don't buy anything is a nice part of the Italian culture, enjoy it.
Once you have done all the usual things like restaurants and shops, go into a market and try eating and drinking in a market food, Before I spoke Italian I used to do this and for two people they will open their arms and welcome you into a maybe a small bar, with local foods that the local businessmen and the market traders eat. Just a few words of Italian and you'll find a member of staff making sure you are ok while you eat a very cheap meal.
I was with one of my sisters (not a Brit) in Rome some years back and she is a pretty hard egg. "A fisherman", which is a fair translation of the job a guy does at the front of many Roman restaurants, worked out what city she came from and charmed her into the place almost before she had opened her mouth, she was blushing by the time she sat down
@walkin' chill man, I find counting to ten works for me (most of the time ;-) )
A good Italian "front of house" person will have clocked you as an American by your clothes, your body language and your accent in milliseconds. That is not an insult but that is how they make money by making customers feel at home and in the high tourist areas that is what they do day in day out.
Italy has a different culture to NA, they have amazing local accents/dialects, strong families and many will not leave their home city except for holidays. But they may well have been to New York!
Interestingly, Italian Universities even do research into this stuff and some of their measures are all about the structure of courtesy and use of "please, thank you and hi". I know this because this is a major hobby of mine.
Very few Italians speak English, but the vast majority of Italians the OP will meet speak English very well.
Italians really do love people who visit their country and who make an effort with Italian because Italian is a dying language (see birth rate )
Saying Hello, how are you and 'bye even if you don't buy anything is a nice part of the Italian culture, enjoy it.
Once you have done all the usual things like restaurants and shops, go into a market and try eating and drinking in a market food, Before I spoke Italian I used to do this and for two people they will open their arms and welcome you into a maybe a small bar, with local foods that the local businessmen and the market traders eat. Just a few words of Italian and you'll find a member of staff making sure you are ok while you eat a very cheap meal.
I was with one of my sisters (not a Brit) in Rome some years back and she is a pretty hard egg. "A fisherman", which is a fair translation of the job a guy does at the front of many Roman restaurants, worked out what city she came from and charmed her into the place almost before she had opened her mouth, she was blushing by the time she sat down
@walkin' chill man, I find counting to ten works for me (most of the time ;-) )
Last edited by bilboburgler; Nov 17th, 2019 at 07:08 AM.
Nov 17th, 2019, 07:22 AM
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Back to the opening post.
Option 1 : trailing round overcrowded museums and galleries, gawping at stones that once used to look like something and pictures of Cardinal Medici, who looks like his mother mated with the family pet pig.
Option 2 : getting up late, taking the dog for a walk in the wheat fields, driving the Volvo down to Montisi for a tour of Cellar Altesino. Buying a bottle, taking it back to villa, going for a swim in the pool and drinking it at sunset looking over the Val d’Orcia.
Next question.....please.
Option 1 : trailing round overcrowded museums and galleries, gawping at stones that once used to look like something and pictures of Cardinal Medici, who looks like his mother mated with the family pet pig.
Option 2 : getting up late, taking the dog for a walk in the wheat fields, driving the Volvo down to Montisi for a tour of Cellar Altesino. Buying a bottle, taking it back to villa, going for a swim in the pool and drinking it at sunset looking over the Val d’Orcia.
Next question.....please.
Nov 17th, 2019, 08:29 AM
#15
Have you picked what cities you are visiting? With 10 days I'd suggest an itinerary of Venice/Florence or Venice/Rome or Florence/Rome and go between them by train. Flying into one and out of the other if possible.
I'm no expert, but have been to Venice twice. I've never gone to a museum. I just go exploring by walking around on my own with a city map. My suggestion is to read a guidebook about the cities you will be visiting and find things you DO want to do that are not museums. It's easy really. Wine is everywhere. Speaking only English was not a problem. As a short stay tourist i did not have a lot of interaction with locals. I think some posts here are making it sound a lot more complicated than I found it to be.
I'm no expert, but have been to Venice twice. I've never gone to a museum. I just go exploring by walking around on my own with a city map. My suggestion is to read a guidebook about the cities you will be visiting and find things you DO want to do that are not museums. It's easy really. Wine is everywhere. Speaking only English was not a problem. As a short stay tourist i did not have a lot of interaction with locals. I think some posts here are making it sound a lot more complicated than I found it to be.
Nov 17th, 2019, 09:22 AM
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Back to the opening post.
Option 1 : trailing round overcrowded museums and galleries, gawping at stones that once used to look like something and pictures of Cardinal Medici, who looks like his mother mated with the family pet pig.
Option 2 : getting up late, taking the dog for a walk in the wheat fields, driving the Volvo down to Montisi for a tour of Cellar Altesino. Buying a bottle, taking it back to villa, going for a swim in the pool and drinking it at sunset looking over the Val d’Orcia.
Next question.....please.
Option 1 : trailing round overcrowded museums and galleries, gawping at stones that once used to look like something and pictures of Cardinal Medici, who looks like his mother mated with the family pet pig.
Option 2 : getting up late, taking the dog for a walk in the wheat fields, driving the Volvo down to Montisi for a tour of Cellar Altesino. Buying a bottle, taking it back to villa, going for a swim in the pool and drinking it at sunset looking over the Val d’Orcia.
Next question.....please.
You really don't need to be in any city or visit any museum if you don't want to. There is so much natural beauty to be enjoyed and explored, along with small towns and villages. Decide which part of Italy you prefer, and have a look away from the big cities and tourist draws if that is you thing (it is mine!).
Nov 17th, 2019, 10:22 AM
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I’ve visited most countries in Europe, by the age of 15 I’d maybe all the sites of the Classics other than those in Turkey. I’ve studied Classics and am a member of the British Classics society.
Some people just get the an age where peace and quiet is your thing.
We loved our visits to one of the few remaining Templar churches in France located in the Charante and a beautiful little Byzantine church in Sicily this year. Absolutely deserted places and magical but I’ve had it with overly mobbed sits. Colosseum in Rome, couldn’t put it in any context with the cruise ships offloading 50,000 into the fray.
In fact, it’s a cliche but Tuscany has to be a consideration for the OP. Stunning countryside and nature, food, two areas of very different and outstanding wine production and close enough to the coast for a diversion.
Sicily is another option. The island is one large social museum just read
Il Gattapardo by Tomasi di Lampedusa which gives a subtle insight into the shocking reality of a society which is out of control and in transition
Or
Costa Nostra by John Dickie which is still out of control and in transition 130 years on.
In fact, more than any other European country I’d say Italy is one large social museum. You don’t buy a ticket, you just read the history, the little stories and observe the people. It’s a place of contrasts, contradictions, hysteria, opera, hypocrisy, passion, love, hate, and the rest. In reality, as a county in its current firm, it’s younger than the US.
and yes, I agree about th language. Italians are the most tolerant of those who abuse language in an attempt to communicate. You may be scoffed at in Paris and they will probably ignore you. In rural Sicily, you will end up eating dinner with their family after a few broken phrases of Italianish.
Some people just get the an age where peace and quiet is your thing.
We loved our visits to one of the few remaining Templar churches in France located in the Charante and a beautiful little Byzantine church in Sicily this year. Absolutely deserted places and magical but I’ve had it with overly mobbed sits. Colosseum in Rome, couldn’t put it in any context with the cruise ships offloading 50,000 into the fray.
In fact, it’s a cliche but Tuscany has to be a consideration for the OP. Stunning countryside and nature, food, two areas of very different and outstanding wine production and close enough to the coast for a diversion.
Sicily is another option. The island is one large social museum just read
Il Gattapardo by Tomasi di Lampedusa which gives a subtle insight into the shocking reality of a society which is out of control and in transition
Or
Costa Nostra by John Dickie which is still out of control and in transition 130 years on.
In fact, more than any other European country I’d say Italy is one large social museum. You don’t buy a ticket, you just read the history, the little stories and observe the people. It’s a place of contrasts, contradictions, hysteria, opera, hypocrisy, passion, love, hate, and the rest. In reality, as a county in its current firm, it’s younger than the US.
and yes, I agree about th language. Italians are the most tolerant of those who abuse language in an attempt to communicate. You may be scoffed at in Paris and they will probably ignore you. In rural Sicily, you will end up eating dinner with their family after a few broken phrases of Italianish.
Nov 17th, 2019, 01:43 PM
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I must say that when somebody jumps on me to ask - demand - info I turn into an ugly french. Not understanding one word of what is said.
If the person is aggressive like our good friend walking around then I become walking away even faster.
Saying in the same post that nobody can force them to say hello and that they are fed up with being called ugly Americans and then lashing out full power against the Brits ...
what are the mods doing on this forum ? It is already a moribond forum if it becomes a place for hysteric posters - US or not there is absolutely no interest anymore.
as for OP well I don't get what they want.
Don't like museum ? Avoid them. You can also avoid cathedrals or swimming pools.
If the person is aggressive like our good friend walking around then I become walking away even faster.
Saying in the same post that nobody can force them to say hello and that they are fed up with being called ugly Americans and then lashing out full power against the Brits ...
what are the mods doing on this forum ? It is already a moribond forum if it becomes a place for hysteric posters - US or not there is absolutely no interest anymore.
as for OP well I don't get what they want.
Don't like museum ? Avoid them. You can also avoid cathedrals or swimming pools.
Nov 17th, 2019, 01:50 PM
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"Colosseum in Rome, couldn’t put it in any context with the cruise ships offloading 50,000 into the fray."
On the contrary! That's exactly how it must have looked like in its heyday with the the plebs swarming it.
It's only a pity they're not selling the yummy Roman snacks, like otter's nose or wolf nipple chips anymore!
On the contrary! That's exactly how it must have looked like in its heyday with the the plebs swarming it.
It's only a pity they're not selling the yummy Roman snacks, like otter's nose or wolf nipple chips anymore!
Last edited by BDKR; Nov 17th, 2019 at 02:19 PM.
Nov 17th, 2019, 02:33 PM
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I must say that when somebody jumps on me to ask - demand - info I turn into an ugly french. Not understanding one word of what is said.
If the person is aggressive like our good friend walking around then I become walking away even faster.
Saying in the same post that nobody can force them to say hello and that they are fed up with being called ugly Americans and then lashing out full power against the Brits ...
what are the mods doing on this forum ? It is already a moribond forum if it becomes a place for hysteric posters - US or not there is absolutely no interest anymore.
as for OP well I don't get what they want.
Don't like museum ? Avoid them. You can also avoid cathedrals or swimming pools.
If the person is aggressive like our good friend walking around then I become walking away even faster.
Saying in the same post that nobody can force them to say hello and that they are fed up with being called ugly Americans and then lashing out full power against the Brits ...
what are the mods doing on this forum ? It is already a moribond forum if it becomes a place for hysteric posters - US or not there is absolutely no interest anymore.
as for OP well I don't get what they want.
Don't like museum ? Avoid them. You can also avoid cathedrals or swimming pools.
