ATM Fraud after Cruise
Sep 28th, 2007, 03:25 PM
#22
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Faina
No, it happened at home and my card was in my purse all the time. It came as a shock when I discovered it, especially since I had not gone to Ireland or to England that summer and had not ordered flowers through Interflora in Lyons !
No, it happened at home and my card was in my purse all the time. It came as a shock when I discovered it, especially since I had not gone to Ireland or to England that summer and had not ordered flowers through Interflora in Lyons !
Sep 28th, 2007, 04:05 PM
#24
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This is another example of why you should only use a bank ATM card at a bank ATM. There are many non-bank ATM machines in the world. Some of them are rigged for fraud. A cable news segment a few years ago showed how this is done. The account balance is the withdrawal limit. Use credit cards with $50 fraud limits whenever you can. Using an ATM/debit card carries a big risk unless you keep a low balance.
Sep 28th, 2007, 04:11 PM
#25
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This is one reason it's better to use an ATM inside a bank or your hotel - rather than a free-standing one on the street. That way it's much harder for them to slip in the machinery that copies your card when you put it in.
Sep 30th, 2007, 06:13 AM
#26
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Thanks for all the responses to my ATM fraud problem. The reason that we are so certain that the PIN numbers were stolen on the cruise is that the ship was the ONLY place that my husband used his debit card. I used mine in London but he did not. Also, I did look around before I used the ATM in London and there was one other person waiting to use the machine who was standing off to the right and about 30 feet away. He did not have anything in his hands.
I contacted my state Department of Banking and Finance and per their instructions faxed a letter with all the pertinent info, including a list of the fraudulent transactions. I'm not sure what to do next - since many of the withdrawals were made through Lloyds Bank, I thought I would contact them and see if they do anything from the London end. Surely they have surveillance cameras? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
BTW, I agree that our bank was very negligent in letting so many withdrawals go through. They are not nearly as vigilant as the credit card companies - I've learned to call my CC company before I leave the country and tell them that I will be using my card in other countries. Twice I've had my card suspended because they thought my card had been stolen!
Thanks again for your responses.
I contacted my state Department of Banking and Finance and per their instructions faxed a letter with all the pertinent info, including a list of the fraudulent transactions. I'm not sure what to do next - since many of the withdrawals were made through Lloyds Bank, I thought I would contact them and see if they do anything from the London end. Surely they have surveillance cameras? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
BTW, I agree that our bank was very negligent in letting so many withdrawals go through. They are not nearly as vigilant as the credit card companies - I've learned to call my CC company before I leave the country and tell them that I will be using my card in other countries. Twice I've had my card suspended because they thought my card had been stolen!
Thanks again for your responses.
Sep 30th, 2007, 06:39 AM
#27
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It could also be an outside job, rather than an inside one. A year or so ago, criminals hacked point-of-sale terminals that were on the internet and found transaction records that included account, expiration, and PIN. It was a simple matter to launder transactions through a merchant account set up for the purpose.
POS software isn't supposed to store PIN data - even in a temporary file. I <u>never</u> type my PIN into a terminal unless it's in a bank.
POS software isn't supposed to store PIN data - even in a temporary file. I <u>never</u> type my PIN into a terminal unless it's in a bank.
Sep 30th, 2007, 07:16 AM
#30
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Re' inside or outside job, it's not hard to imagine professionals booking a cruise if they think they can gather info on high-rollers or anyone with money in the bank. They might even have their "interns" take jobs where they have access to info.
Not to scare you, but it might be worth contacting your CC companies, too, let their fraud groups know what happened, just in case further malfeisance is in the planning.
I've had a couple of small issues over the years - in one case an airline ticket was bought on my amex info (an eticket). It was clear that someone I dealt with during a weekend in DC used info copied from my card - of course they needed ID to board, so bought a ticket in another name (real ID or not, I'll never know.) Whether Amex or anyone else caught the crook, I'll never know either.
Technology can be hacked, as we know, so it's possible crooks with a good IT team could steal a lot.
Not to scare you, but it might be worth contacting your CC companies, too, let their fraud groups know what happened, just in case further malfeisance is in the planning.
I've had a couple of small issues over the years - in one case an airline ticket was bought on my amex info (an eticket). It was clear that someone I dealt with during a weekend in DC used info copied from my card - of course they needed ID to board, so bought a ticket in another name (real ID or not, I'll never know.) Whether Amex or anyone else caught the crook, I'll never know either.
Technology can be hacked, as we know, so it's possible crooks with a good IT team could steal a lot.
Sep 30th, 2007, 07:22 AM
#31
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Thanks for the further info on the card thing, I guess I missed that when I first read the website. So it does appear that one cannot use an ATM card for fraudulent transactions unless you have a physical card, right? And it has to be more than just watching somebody type in their PIN. It seems that special machinery to copy card info would be noticeable, but I'm not technocrat so don't know how you could easily install something like that in an ATM you didn't own, quickly, with no one noticing and without other problems, but I don't know how much room it takes up or what.
It seems to me most people on here talk solely about having their PIN stolen, and don't mention these other issues or how they think that happened.
I don't have a debit card so don't have any problems with people being able to use that number for fraudulent transactions without a card or a PIN, I only have an ATM card, or even being able to buy things with it. Luckily I avoid some of these concerns.
It seems to me most people on here talk solely about having their PIN stolen, and don't mention these other issues or how they think that happened.
I don't have a debit card so don't have any problems with people being able to use that number for fraudulent transactions without a card or a PIN, I only have an ATM card, or even being able to buy things with it. Luckily I avoid some of these concerns.
Oct 1st, 2007, 05:38 AM
#32
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I never write my PINs down either. I think it's a good idea to use an ATM only in a bank, which is something I hadn't thought of. Right now I'm attempting to contact the fraud division of Lloyd's to see if they can help.
Oct 1st, 2007, 05:50 AM
#33
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I'm curious to know which bank you have. As someone mentioned earlier, I'd be hesitant to use a bank that would allow all of these transactions, without a question.
I know when I travel, I call my cc's and my bank, and give them specific dates of travel, and make note of who I speak with.
I know when I travel, I call my cc's and my bank, and give them specific dates of travel, and make note of who I speak with.
Oct 1st, 2007, 06:03 AM
#34
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"Right now I'm attempting to contact the fraud division of Lloyd's to see if they can help."
That's what your own bank's fraud department should be doing. I can't imagine you trying to get information from foreign banks of which you aren't even a customer, but your bank should be doing all the follow through on this and keep you aware of the situation.
That's what your own bank's fraud department should be doing. I can't imagine you trying to get information from foreign banks of which you aren't even a customer, but your bank should be doing all the follow through on this and keep you aware of the situation.
Oct 1st, 2007, 06:09 AM
#35
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pantelia...
The OP may well have informed the bank and you know something, all the withdrawals took place in London one ofthe places no doubt they were informed the custer would be.
Lot of good that did, eh...not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea to notify your credit and debit card banks of your plans but as they told me, they take the information and rely on the computer whether they see what they consider out of pattern usage of the card.
The OP may well have informed the bank and you know something, all the withdrawals took place in London one ofthe places no doubt they were informed the custer would be.
Lot of good that did, eh...not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea to notify your credit and debit card banks of your plans but as they told me, they take the information and rely on the computer whether they see what they consider out of pattern usage of the card.
Oct 1st, 2007, 06:25 AM
#36
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Yes, but xyz, even with a call there should be a limit to what the bank lets slip by.
I was a little perturbed with BofA when after calling and giving my itinerary I was cut off. It ended up they automatically ended the "override" after 30 days, but I was in Europe for much longer than that. When I called them and they re-started the override, I was surprised when I was again cut off a week or so later. Another call and they said it was because there were withdrawals of nearly $600 for four days in a row and that seemed "unusual". Yes it was, but I was getting money for apartment payments. At the time I was a bit angry that after I called they still cut me off, but it does show they are looking at unusual patterns. If I called and gave my itinerary, I certainly wouldn't object if they cut me off well before I had made 58 ATM withdrawals in less than two weeks. They SHOULD cut me off and require me to call just to be sure those were all valid -- even if I had told them I'd be in that country on those dates.
I was a little perturbed with BofA when after calling and giving my itinerary I was cut off. It ended up they automatically ended the "override" after 30 days, but I was in Europe for much longer than that. When I called them and they re-started the override, I was surprised when I was again cut off a week or so later. Another call and they said it was because there were withdrawals of nearly $600 for four days in a row and that seemed "unusual". Yes it was, but I was getting money for apartment payments. At the time I was a bit angry that after I called they still cut me off, but it does show they are looking at unusual patterns. If I called and gave my itinerary, I certainly wouldn't object if they cut me off well before I had made 58 ATM withdrawals in less than two weeks. They SHOULD cut me off and require me to call just to be sure those were all valid -- even if I had told them I'd be in that country on those dates.
Oct 1st, 2007, 06:31 AM
#37
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I agree NeoPatrick.
I am perfectly fine calling from overseas (usually to BoA's non 800 number, which I call collect) to verify my card usage. I'd much rather take the time to call then get home to a depleted account and have to deal with the mess of that.
Even though I call with my dates, they still sometimes block my card, and again, I'm only happy to call and clear it up.
I am perfectly fine calling from overseas (usually to BoA's non 800 number, which I call collect) to verify my card usage. I'd much rather take the time to call then get home to a depleted account and have to deal with the mess of that.
Even though I call with my dates, they still sometimes block my card, and again, I'm only happy to call and clear it up.
Oct 1st, 2007, 08:51 AM
#39
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Christina, the Snopes article posted by Henry includes information on skimmers that thieves attach to ATMs. They are installed over the "real" card slot and gather the magnetic stripe information from the card while it is being passed inward to the real ATM. This info is then wirelessly transmitted to the thieves, who use it to make a fake card. The thieves also install cameras to capture PINs, so they have the complete package. Fake cards are a huge business, particularly in the former Soviet Union. Google "carderplanet" for some news articles on a website shut down by international law enforcement where so-called "carders" bought and sold mag stripe info (gathered through various means, including skimmers and hacking into merchants' systems). Shutting down the website by no means shut down the practice.
Oct 1st, 2007, 09:23 AM
#40
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One question raised by the Snopes article: don't financial institutions have security cameras watching their ATMs? Wouldn't someone installing a card reader and brochure rack/camera be kind of obvious?
