ATM Dispute/Claim Was Denied
Oct 28th, 2008, 12:22 PM
#81
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Hey janis, I don't carry a grudge. I just happen to remember things.
And you're wrong. Twice. Get over it.
I'm not getting into a mud slinging contest. And I'm happy that your wits are with you! That's all I have to say about this subject.
And you're wrong. Twice. Get over it.
I'm not getting into a mud slinging contest. And I'm happy that your wits are with you! That's all I have to say about this subject.
Oct 28th, 2008, 12:31 PM
#82
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"Yes, Neo, but I don't think you were interested in a discussion. The vibes I got from you were that you wanted to prove I was wrong and you had to be right."
I am indeed sorry then that you totally misinterpreted my posts -- which certainly is the case. The "vibes you got" were wrong -- pure and simple. I was trying to discuss WHY and HOW this happened, for the benefit of others -- not simply to satisfy your own specific sitation of trying to get your money back.
As with many posts here about European ATMs and currency exchange, I felt the idea here was to find out WHY this event happened and at the same time inform others of how European ATMs work. I felt it is very important to establish exactly what a European ATM does or does not tell you about your withdrawal. I never once suggested it didn't happen (which you seem to insist some of us are insinuating)-- only trying to get to WHY you canceled or thought you canceled but it went through anyway. On the other hand I think I was right about 15 posts back when I suggested you only wanted to hear "that's terrible" and not really a discussion of HOW European ATMs work and WHY this happened to you. In fact your latest statement that people who don't agree with you shouldn't respond to your posts confirms that YOU were not looking for an open discussion -- only sympathy and agreement. So please don't claim that it was me who didn't want a thorough and logical discussion of the whole ATM issue.
I am indeed sorry then that you totally misinterpreted my posts -- which certainly is the case. The "vibes you got" were wrong -- pure and simple. I was trying to discuss WHY and HOW this happened, for the benefit of others -- not simply to satisfy your own specific sitation of trying to get your money back.
As with many posts here about European ATMs and currency exchange, I felt the idea here was to find out WHY this event happened and at the same time inform others of how European ATMs work. I felt it is very important to establish exactly what a European ATM does or does not tell you about your withdrawal. I never once suggested it didn't happen (which you seem to insist some of us are insinuating)-- only trying to get to WHY you canceled or thought you canceled but it went through anyway. On the other hand I think I was right about 15 posts back when I suggested you only wanted to hear "that's terrible" and not really a discussion of HOW European ATMs work and WHY this happened to you. In fact your latest statement that people who don't agree with you shouldn't respond to your posts confirms that YOU were not looking for an open discussion -- only sympathy and agreement. So please don't claim that it was me who didn't want a thorough and logical discussion of the whole ATM issue.
Oct 28th, 2008, 12:40 PM
#83
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Well whatever it is, I give up.
As I said, the posts speak for themselves.
And, no I'm not posting for sympathy.
As I wrote in my very first post and reiterated again and again, "I'm very sure that I didn't get the money. Has this ever happened to you?" This was the question I raised and I'm still curious about.
Of course the stuff about European ATMs is interesting. Personally I wouldn't have thought a thing about an ATM that displays an exchange rate. I'm used to that with Citibank ATMs, as I mentioned.
When when this topic came up, I offered my opinions, but they were ignored, because people had preconceived notions of how something had to work.
So that's not a discussion. It's a witch hunt. As the thread progressed, I got the impression that I was a hysterical woman with memory problems. Well I guess it could be worse!
As I said, the posts speak for themselves.
And, no I'm not posting for sympathy.
As I wrote in my very first post and reiterated again and again, "I'm very sure that I didn't get the money. Has this ever happened to you?" This was the question I raised and I'm still curious about.
Of course the stuff about European ATMs is interesting. Personally I wouldn't have thought a thing about an ATM that displays an exchange rate. I'm used to that with Citibank ATMs, as I mentioned.
When when this topic came up, I offered my opinions, but they were ignored, because people had preconceived notions of how something had to work.
So that's not a discussion. It's a witch hunt.
As the thread progressed, I got the impression that I was a hysterical woman with memory problems. Well I guess it could be worse!
Oct 28th, 2008, 12:42 PM
#84
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Could it be that you got the DCC message, pressed no, thinking you were cancelling the transaction and walked away before the money was dispensed? That way you would think you had cancelled, but the money would have been dispensed so that the banks tally matched, and some lucky (less than honest) person walked away with your cash?
Oct 28th, 2008, 12:46 PM
#85
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One last time, hetismjj, as I had written earlier, this transaction with DCC was already voided by Citi once I called them, no questions asked. This was not the one.
It's the next one that's causing a problem. I canceled it when there was a message about fees. I can't remember what it said, but I canceled it.
As I explained to lincasanova, the theory that the machine spit out some money and I walked way is possible (anything is possible), but I believe this is (very) unlikely.
Of course if people want to insist that that's the reason I can't say anything else that will change your views.
It's the next one that's causing a problem. I canceled it when there was a message about fees. I can't remember what it said, but I canceled it.
As I explained to lincasanova, the theory that the machine spit out some money and I walked way is possible (anything is possible), but I believe this is (very) unlikely.
Of course if people want to insist that that's the reason I can't say anything else that will change your views.
Oct 28th, 2008, 01:12 PM
#87
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It wasn't clear to me that that was the case 111op. Sorry.
But maybe you did press the wrong button by mistake? I know that the arrows on the screen and the keys are not always clearly aligned and it is possible to press the wrong one sometimes. If you did that it could have dispensed the money. It seems the logical explanation for the bank tally being correct at the end of the day, that's all.
I do hope you get some closure on this, either from the bank repaying you or maybe your accepting that your money has gone, putting it down to experience and moving on.
But maybe you did press the wrong button by mistake? I know that the arrows on the screen and the keys are not always clearly aligned and it is possible to press the wrong one sometimes. If you did that it could have dispensed the money. It seems the logical explanation for the bank tally being correct at the end of the day, that's all.
I do hope you get some closure on this, either from the bank repaying you or maybe your accepting that your money has gone, putting it down to experience and moving on.
Oct 28th, 2008, 01:19 PM
#88
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Well anything is possible. The bank could have made a mistake too, by the way. Why not consider that possibility?
Of course I'll accept it if they insist on charging me. It's $143.48. It's not a disaster in the grand scheme of things.
I'm just pissed off, that's all. And I posted to see if someone had a similar experience, that's all.
Of course I'll accept it if they insist on charging me. It's $143.48. It's not a disaster in the grand scheme of things.
I'm just pissed off, that's all. And I posted to see if someone had a similar experience, that's all.
Oct 28th, 2008, 01:44 PM
#89
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Fortunately I haven't had the same experience but I too would be pissed off about it if it happened to me.
Since a machine is used to count the money I doubt that the bank made a mistake, but it is possible.
Since a machine is used to count the money I doubt that the bank made a mistake, but it is possible.
Oct 28th, 2008, 01:53 PM
#90
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I'd doubt that too, so I am hoping they come back and say that they got it wrong the first time.
It's a separate topic, but I do want to say that machines are not as fallible as you think they are.
Without getting into details I've worked in areas where something is persistently wrong. Perhaps the way the machine was programmed and set up. Maybe there was an exception that some program failed to pick up.
There are other possibilities. Maybe something should be backed up and it wasn't. Or maybe the machine had a glitch. Who knows? A bank is not going to review their records and say that they have a temporary failure.
Anyway, this is in the realm of speculation now. I've explained my situation and it's up to you to draw your own conclusions.
But all is still more rational than saying a Santander ATM morphed into a Citibank ATM or that I had psychic abilities. If the latter, I'd be picking stocks and not think about $143.48.
It's a separate topic, but I do want to say that machines are not as fallible as you think they are.
Without getting into details I've worked in areas where something is persistently wrong. Perhaps the way the machine was programmed and set up. Maybe there was an exception that some program failed to pick up.
There are other possibilities. Maybe something should be backed up and it wasn't. Or maybe the machine had a glitch. Who knows? A bank is not going to review their records and say that they have a temporary failure.
Anyway, this is in the realm of speculation now. I've explained my situation and it's up to you to draw your own conclusions.
But all is still more rational than saying a Santander ATM morphed into a Citibank ATM or that I had psychic abilities. If the latter, I'd be picking stocks and not think about $143.48.
Oct 28th, 2008, 01:53 PM
#91
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I certainly don't know what the situation was, but I just returned from Europe and used an ATM card in Italy several times and in Amsterdam. Not once did a screen offer me details on an exchange rate. It worked just like it does at home in the States -- it spit out money when I asked for it.
Oct 28th, 2008, 02:07 PM
#92
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I haven't been to Europe recently but encountered DCC at ATMs in Australia in August at Cairns and Melbourne airports. This is a good reminder to pay careful attention when I head to Europe next month.
Good luck to the OP!
Good luck to the OP!
Oct 28th, 2008, 02:28 PM
#93
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Just because this isn't being done all over does not mean that it will not spread very quickly. Not only does this give the banks an opportunity to improve their profits, same goes for the manufacturers of the ATM processing software, etc.
Oct 28th, 2008, 03:32 PM
#94
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If ATM machines are now doing DCC, this is a good warning to look out for it.
I suspect that could be the answer as to why it told you the amount that would be charged -- perhaps legally if they are doing DCC, they have to tell you, so you can supposedly decline. I believe retail places are required to ask your permission, although they often are secretive about it or claim they can't do it any other way, from what people say on Fodors. I've only had one hotel in Switzerland try it with me, and I at least give them credit they asked me and when I declined, they did not give me a hard time or claim I had to do it (the DCC).
1110p I think you mean machines are not as infallible as someone thinks, not as fallible, as you do think they are fallible. I have unfortunately walked off and left some things in various machines that I did not think came out, but they did. Not money, but some receipts and things like that.
I suspect that could be the answer as to why it told you the amount that would be charged -- perhaps legally if they are doing DCC, they have to tell you, so you can supposedly decline. I believe retail places are required to ask your permission, although they often are secretive about it or claim they can't do it any other way, from what people say on Fodors. I've only had one hotel in Switzerland try it with me, and I at least give them credit they asked me and when I declined, they did not give me a hard time or claim I had to do it (the DCC).
1110p I think you mean machines are not as infallible as someone thinks, not as fallible, as you do think they are fallible. I have unfortunately walked off and left some things in various machines that I did not think came out, but they did. Not money, but some receipts and things like that.
Oct 28th, 2008, 03:50 PM
#95
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Well as I've acknowledged, it's possible that I walked away without the money.
I just don't think it's very likely. As I explained earlier, I think these machines are made to be somewhat foolproof. They don't take long to refresh. I'm just guessing if there's cash left, the ATM machine would absorb it as it refreshes itself.
And ATMs beep if you've forgotten to remove your card. As I mentioned, that happened to me in London once, but by the time I realized what was happening, my card was gone.
What I'm trying to say is that these theories are all possible, but an ATM is built in a certain fashion so that you're less likely to forget your cash or your card, if you see what I mean. It'd be chaos otherwise, as I bet a lot of people would forget.
And honestly, I think that subconsciously, I would remember. Once in a while I forget to unplug my iron before I leave the apartment. Invariably I get the nagging the feeling that I forgot something. And I then return to unplug the iron.
And when I think about that evening, I just don't remember anything that would tip me off and tell me that I made a mistake. What I remember was to check to be sure that both transactions were voided. When they were not, I called the bank.
My theory, as you know, is that the bank made a mistake. Of course, it will be impossible for me to prove, so I'll have to accept what they end up saying.
I just don't think it's very likely. As I explained earlier, I think these machines are made to be somewhat foolproof. They don't take long to refresh. I'm just guessing if there's cash left, the ATM machine would absorb it as it refreshes itself.
And ATMs beep if you've forgotten to remove your card. As I mentioned, that happened to me in London once, but by the time I realized what was happening, my card was gone.
What I'm trying to say is that these theories are all possible, but an ATM is built in a certain fashion so that you're less likely to forget your cash or your card, if you see what I mean. It'd be chaos otherwise, as I bet a lot of people would forget.
And honestly, I think that subconsciously, I would remember. Once in a while I forget to unplug my iron before I leave the apartment. Invariably I get the nagging the feeling that I forgot something. And I then return to unplug the iron.
And when I think about that evening, I just don't remember anything that would tip me off and tell me that I made a mistake. What I remember was to check to be sure that both transactions were voided. When they were not, I called the bank.
My theory, as you know, is that the bank made a mistake. Of course, it will be impossible for me to prove, so I'll have to accept what they end up saying.
Oct 29th, 2008, 05:00 AM
#96
Is this what happened?
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35164374
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35164374
Oct 29th, 2008, 05:06 AM
#97
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Apparently yes to one transaction I cancelled.
Derek posted the article on this thread and then wisely started his own thread, as it'd otherwise be buried in a deluge of irrelevant posts.
I encourage people who have time on their hands to wade through all these posts. There's some entertainment value there.
Derek posted the article on this thread and then wisely started his own thread, as it'd otherwise be buried in a deluge of irrelevant posts.
I encourage people who have time on their hands to wade through all these posts. There's some entertainment value there.
Nov 2nd, 2008, 01:24 AM
#98
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Just checking my banking records online and the locations of ATMs have now been updated:
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:15 9644 $ 143.48
PO DE GRACIA 48 BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:26 9644 $ 143.48
*DEUTSCHE BANK SAE BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 10:21 9644 $ 143.48
CAIXA DE CATALUNYA BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:14 9644 $ 157.83
PASEO GRACIA 54 BARCELONAUS
It looks like the Santander (if it's a Satander is at 54). The other bank is at 48.
So my Google search was close but not correct. I'll see what the bank says about the claim this time. Probably will need to wait a few weeks.
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:15 9644 $ 143.48
PO DE GRACIA 48 BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:26 9644 $ 143.48
*DEUTSCHE BANK SAE BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 10:21 9644 $ 143.48
CAIXA DE CATALUNYA BARCELONAUS
xx-xx NONCITIBANK ATM WITHDRAWAL xxx xx 17:14 9644 $ 157.83
PASEO GRACIA 54 BARCELONAUS
It looks like the Santander (if it's a Satander is at 54). The other bank is at 48.
So my Google search was close but not correct. I'll see what the bank says about the claim this time. Probably will need to wait a few weeks.
Nov 2nd, 2008, 01:32 AM
#99
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111op, sorry for all the problems you've had.
I can relate a few incidents regarding ATM's in Europe. On my first trip to Amsterdam, a friend went to the ATM for money. The ATM appeared to work just fine, but at the end when it was supposed to spit out the money nothing came out. The receipt said she had made the withdrawal. The bank wasn't open yet, but we waited until it did and she went in and notified them of what happened. Of course they were skeptical, but said they'd check into it. The next morning we returned, as requested, and the bank told her that she was correct, the exact amount was found to be over when they closed. They gave her the money.
On another trip, the ATM was in bright sun and it was almost impossible to read the screen. We managed to shield the screen enough to see, but evidently weren't fast enough to take the money, as we saw it being taken back into the machine! Again, that matter was cleared up, but not for several days and she had taken out the maximum allowed by the bank for the day.
I guess my point is that sometimes these wonderful machines don't work as they should, and we get stuck with the consequences. Also, we've noticed that the "enter" key is not always in the place we are used to, and maybe we've hit the wrong button. Still, it would seem that at the end of the day, the bank has to balance its records and would reveal the problem.
Good luck with getting this resolved. It sure makes it difficult to do that once you're no longer in the area.
I can relate a few incidents regarding ATM's in Europe. On my first trip to Amsterdam, a friend went to the ATM for money. The ATM appeared to work just fine, but at the end when it was supposed to spit out the money nothing came out. The receipt said she had made the withdrawal. The bank wasn't open yet, but we waited until it did and she went in and notified them of what happened. Of course they were skeptical, but said they'd check into it. The next morning we returned, as requested, and the bank told her that she was correct, the exact amount was found to be over when they closed. They gave her the money.
On another trip, the ATM was in bright sun and it was almost impossible to read the screen. We managed to shield the screen enough to see, but evidently weren't fast enough to take the money, as we saw it being taken back into the machine! Again, that matter was cleared up, but not for several days and she had taken out the maximum allowed by the bank for the day.
I guess my point is that sometimes these wonderful machines don't work as they should, and we get stuck with the consequences. Also, we've noticed that the "enter" key is not always in the place we are used to, and maybe we've hit the wrong button. Still, it would seem that at the end of the day, the bank has to balance its records and would reveal the problem.
Good luck with getting this resolved. It sure makes it difficult to do that once you're no longer in the area.
Jan 21st, 2011, 02:25 PM
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hi, I know it is a long time that this has happened yo you and I am not sure that you will read this reply. Before Christmas I tried to withdraw £300 from my account at a Santander ATM in London. Of course before you taking your money you hear that typical whirilling sound of counting money by the machine and then a flap opens and you take your money. All this did not happen and the machine gave just a slip! The money was already debited from my account!!! I ran into the branch and complained; they told me that there might be a problem and the machine will adjust itself in 48 hours. Ok, waited a week (and of course consider Christmas, bank holidyas, Boxing days all this holidays)and then went to the bank and still £300 is not replaced. Then called the customer service; I was told the matter will be sort out in 20 days! Now 20 days gone and received a letter saying THE MACHINE AT THE TIME WAS WORKING PROPERLY!!!!!! Tonight I called again the lady answering the call said "Why you did not go to the branch immediately after 48 hours!" and she advised me to wait another 20 days for full investigation!
