Are Europeans socialized to avoid (reject) "small talk"
Aug 5th, 2003, 07:18 AM
#42
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't hold much, as many posters above, with generalising about "Europeans" since people within individual regions of one country can differ so much let alone the huge differences in culture and character between different countries.
That said, I am one of those who does chat to strangers on buses, trains, in queues, at shop tills... anywhere and everywhere.
I do usually have a pretext for starting conversation - sometimes not disimilar to sharing a smile with someone about the kid that dropped the ice cream, or more likely, the funny comment from the tube driver passing on in his own words the reason for the delay.
I sometimes get a reaction of "oh my god it's a nutter" but usually people are happy to break the tedium with a chat.
That said I'm often told that I'm more gregarious than a typical Brit and my husband and many of my friends don't chat to random strangers like I do.
I don't hold with personal questions (such as what someone does for a living) either though, in UK, politics is certainly seen as more acceptable for discussion that I find in the US - intellectual debate rather than personal attack - that said it's still something I'd discuss more with friends than with strangers...
That said, I am one of those who does chat to strangers on buses, trains, in queues, at shop tills... anywhere and everywhere.
I do usually have a pretext for starting conversation - sometimes not disimilar to sharing a smile with someone about the kid that dropped the ice cream, or more likely, the funny comment from the tube driver passing on in his own words the reason for the delay.
I sometimes get a reaction of "oh my god it's a nutter" but usually people are happy to break the tedium with a chat.
That said I'm often told that I'm more gregarious than a typical Brit and my husband and many of my friends don't chat to random strangers like I do.
I don't hold with personal questions (such as what someone does for a living) either though, in UK, politics is certainly seen as more acceptable for discussion that I find in the US - intellectual debate rather than personal attack - that said it's still something I'd discuss more with friends than with strangers...
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:04 AM
#43
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, great discussion! I do agree with the above comments that small talk happens everywhere, it's just the topic of conversation that differs. Waiting on line for a movie in NY, I will discover I went to high school with the woman behind me's second cousin, plus I will be invited to her son's bar mitzvah by the time I buy my ticket. In Italy, I have witnessed hour long heated debates about Berlusconi and the best way make roasted potatoes. The cultural difference is rather interesting!
Aug 5th, 2003, 10:22 AM
#44
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When my girlfriend & I were taking the train from Venice to Rome, an Italian woman got on at Mestre and kind of scowled at us when she realized that my girlfriend was mistakenly sitting in her seat. She then sat there in silence while my girlfriend & I talked to our other seatmate, an woman originally from Utah married to an Italian doctor. Then, since I'm interested in politics, I asked the Utah woman about Berlusconi. The Italian woman immediately perked up, said "You know Berlusconi?", and began talking with the three of us about politics (both women seemed to loathe Berlusconi)...and she turned out to be a wonderful person, not at all as she first appeared.
Aug 6th, 2003, 10:59 AM
#45
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was growing up (admittedly that was a long time ago!), there were four topics which were regarded as verboten in polite society: religion, politics, sex, and I believe the fourth was money.
Asking one's occupation would be categorized as "money" in my book.
Anyhow, none of these topics is truly "chitchat", unless one were standing in front of a cathedral and making some generalized comment on religion to a stranger.
In China, one of the first questions is how old you are! Which somehow is the deathknell of small talk for a lot of European and American ladies!
Or the Chinese are left with the impression that there are a lot of 19 and 29 year old ladies around!
What is small talk seems to be cultural as well. The weather, ma'am, just the weather. Maybe Andytrav is engaging in "big" talk and not "small" talk.
Asking one's occupation would be categorized as "money" in my book.
Anyhow, none of these topics is truly "chitchat", unless one were standing in front of a cathedral and making some generalized comment on religion to a stranger.
In China, one of the first questions is how old you are! Which somehow is the deathknell of small talk for a lot of European and American ladies!
Or the Chinese are left with the impression that there are a lot of 19 and 29 year old ladies around!What is small talk seems to be cultural as well. The weather, ma'am, just the weather. Maybe Andytrav is engaging in "big" talk and not "small" talk.
Aug 6th, 2003, 11:27 AM
#46
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone said above, I think it depends on what your definition of 'small talk' is. To us Europeans, Americans do come across as very direct: "Hi, I'm so-and-so, who are you?" Here in Europe, people don't make "small talk" that way. Some remark about the weather is standard, however. You could come to a shop and say: Whew, it's hot today! How long do you think this heatwave will last?, and so on. People will also chat on the train, in the elevator, etc.
Finally, I have a question about American social manners: my husband and I have noticed that Americans tend to say goodbye very abruptly. Let's say you've had a social evening, your American guests leave, they say goodbye quickly and it's 'not even out of sight but already out of mind'. They don't turn around to wave to you even once but start talking with each other immediately, as if they've forgotten all about you! This is considered rather rude in Europe; we tend to wait until people are out of sight (whether walking or in their car) and wave as long as we can. I'd be interested in any comments from Americans on this.
Finally, I have a question about American social manners: my husband and I have noticed that Americans tend to say goodbye very abruptly. Let's say you've had a social evening, your American guests leave, they say goodbye quickly and it's 'not even out of sight but already out of mind'. They don't turn around to wave to you even once but start talking with each other immediately, as if they've forgotten all about you! This is considered rather rude in Europe; we tend to wait until people are out of sight (whether walking or in their car) and wave as long as we can. I'd be interested in any comments from Americans on this.
Aug 6th, 2003, 12:54 PM
#47
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carola22 -
This is an interesting observation and one that I haven't heard before. I can, of course, speak only for myself and not all Americans but it would never occur to me that I need to continuing waving goodbye until I could no longer be seen. I make some comments like "It was so good to see you again" and/or "I hope we see each other again soon."
Your description of saying goodbye and then just leaving doesn't strike me as odd or rude so maybe there is a certain cultural difference in this.
Of course, I am also the kind of person who really needs to watch where I'm going or I will fall right off a curb, break my ankle, and get run over by a bus!
This is an interesting observation and one that I haven't heard before. I can, of course, speak only for myself and not all Americans but it would never occur to me that I need to continuing waving goodbye until I could no longer be seen. I make some comments like "It was so good to see you again" and/or "I hope we see each other again soon."
Your description of saying goodbye and then just leaving doesn't strike me as odd or rude so maybe there is a certain cultural difference in this.
Of course, I am also the kind of person who really needs to watch where I'm going or I will fall right off a curb, break my ankle, and get run over by a bus!
Aug 7th, 2003, 08:58 AM
#48
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carola22, interesting point!! I agree with your observation about waving until the person is out of sight I must say, its something that you do 'automatically', one never thinks of such standard things as 'cultural' - its just done. I remember my grandma used to get EXTREMELY upset if we didnt continue to turn around and keep waving at her, until we got to the end of the road, then round the corner and out of sight! At last we could stop waving 
And when we are seeing guests home at the end of a nice social evening, we stand at the door saying goodbye (at least a couple of times!) wait til they get in the car, then wave until the car has gone! If I visited somebody and they went indoors immediately and closed the door, I would presume I've just upset them or they need the bathroom quick! I would be a bit miffed about it. Isn't it funny how you presume the rest of the world thinks the same about these things?
I must say, its something that you do 'automatically', one never thinks of such standard things as 'cultural' - its just done. I remember my grandma used to get EXTREMELY upset if we didnt continue to turn around and keep waving at her, until we got to the end of the road, then round the corner and out of sight! At last we could stop waving And when we are seeing guests home at the end of a nice social evening, we stand at the door saying goodbye (at least a couple of times!) wait til they get in the car, then wave until the car has gone! If I visited somebody and they went indoors immediately and closed the door, I would presume I've just upset them or they need the bathroom quick! I would be a bit miffed about it. Isn't it funny how you presume the rest of the world thinks the same about these things?
Aug 7th, 2003, 01:11 PM
#49
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The waving continuously until out of sight thing is something I've noticed, as an American living in the UK. It didn't strike me as odd or bizarre. I thought it was rather nice, but you're right, we Americans don't tend to do that, as a rule. We say our goodbyes, and then we leave (or shut the door as the other person leaves.)
However, I would make one point... when I was growing up, we kids were taught that when we are dropping someone off at their house, or an establishment, or anywhere, really, we must make sure that the person makes it INSIDE their house or at least makes it to a well populated spot if it's a public establishment (NEVER left alone) before we are allowed to drive away. We were just taught that it's a matter of safety and courtesy.
Now, as far as the small talk.... I have shared completely spontaneous, interesting and wonderful small talks and full blown conversations, too, with total strangers, while traveling throughout Europe. It just depends where you are, what's going on around you, and how tired everyone is, lol. At the end of a long work day, it would be mych harder to engage in small talk with commuters in London, for instance. They don't want to talk, they just want to go home and put their feet up, and who can blame 'em?
One of the most interesting and touching conversations I have ever had was in our village, with a man who was walking his dog, as I was walking the opposite way, pushing our newborn son in a stroller. He made a remark about the weather, and before I knew it, he was telling me that he had come to the UK as a German prisoner of war, had met his German wife who was visiting the UK after the war, and they had gotten married, and had settled in the UK, never to return to Germany. His whole family, his whole village, his whole existence in Germany was wiped out, so he decided to stay in the UK, learn English, work hard and raise a family. Completely spontaneous conversation with a total (European) stranger. I loved it.
However, I would make one point... when I was growing up, we kids were taught that when we are dropping someone off at their house, or an establishment, or anywhere, really, we must make sure that the person makes it INSIDE their house or at least makes it to a well populated spot if it's a public establishment (NEVER left alone) before we are allowed to drive away. We were just taught that it's a matter of safety and courtesy.
Now, as far as the small talk.... I have shared completely spontaneous, interesting and wonderful small talks and full blown conversations, too, with total strangers, while traveling throughout Europe. It just depends where you are, what's going on around you, and how tired everyone is, lol. At the end of a long work day, it would be mych harder to engage in small talk with commuters in London, for instance. They don't want to talk, they just want to go home and put their feet up, and who can blame 'em?
One of the most interesting and touching conversations I have ever had was in our village, with a man who was walking his dog, as I was walking the opposite way, pushing our newborn son in a stroller. He made a remark about the weather, and before I knew it, he was telling me that he had come to the UK as a German prisoner of war, had met his German wife who was visiting the UK after the war, and they had gotten married, and had settled in the UK, never to return to Germany. His whole family, his whole village, his whole existence in Germany was wiped out, so he decided to stay in the UK, learn English, work hard and raise a family. Completely spontaneous conversation with a total (European) stranger. I loved it.
Sep 14th, 2003, 03:06 PM
#51
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think there are friendly people everywhere, and I've had many people try to "practice" their English with me when I am in Europe. The girl at the hotel desk in Prague started off a bit business like, but by the end of my 3 week stay, she was hanging out with me in the lobby & chatting up a storm. I've managed to have very nice conversations with waiters, shop keepers, museum guards, etc. I think it depends on the person, the general atmosphere of where you are, and whether or not the person is having a good day (much like here in America!)
