golfdude

Hello,

We are a family of 4 with 2 adults and 2 kids aged 8 and 10. We are thinking about touring Europe for two months from mid April 2014 till mid June 2014.

What would be a ballpark estimate (in USD or Euro) for this trip excluding the airfare to reach Europe ? We are open to either taking the train or driving inside Europe depending on the cost difference between a rental car and train. We want to do the major spots in 7 to 8 countries like France, Italy, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Venice.

We can stay in rental apartments with cooking facility to save on eating outside by cooking the evening meal.

Thanks a lot.

golfdude

lowcountrycarol

You could start with checking out apartment prices in the places you want to rent. Then do the same for hotels for the nights you are not in an apartment. After that figure out what you think you need for a food budget. which would include restaurant meals......you can figure this all out with some investigating and a calculator. There could be a lot of variables gives price of admissions, transportation etc. My minimum guess could be at least 400-500 euros a day and that is keeping things very, very "tight".

indy_dad

We are based in the UK and have taken a few trips the past 3 years. (click on my name to peruse my travel reports if interested).

We have 2 kids and stay in a mix of apartments, B&B's and hotels. I keep track of expenses and the trips average about 600 USD/day (that's £380 or 450&euro. That includes transportation to/from but you will be in the same boat. That also includes some car trips to Scotland and Cornwall that have lowered the cost.

It's not on your list, but might I suggest a wonderfully relaxing week in Switzerland if you like the outdoors? It was one of our favorites and will be a good way to catch your breathe on such a long holiday.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...e-oberland.cfm

As I mentioned, click on my name to see the others that are available.

ribeirasacra

LP has a good thread about budgets.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntre...readID=2153476

adrienne

A country per week is a lot of moving around and that will substantially add to your budget. It also doesn't give much time to explore and get to know each country. I can't imagine how you can do the "major spots" in each country in a week (or even in 10 days) unless you're constantly on the go and moving location every couple of days. A better plan would be to limit the number of countries you're visiting and combine both city and smaller town locations.

I'd budget for $600USD per day but have the ability to add to this budget to accommodate all the travel you'll be doing.

Dukey1

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the above about how much "depth" you can get in a certain timeframe.

Yes, you can spend YEARS in a country or city and not necessarily see "all the important things" but since we have no idea what really appeals to you I am going to assume you actually KNOW what you think is important enough to see.

I would advise you to become, if not already, aware of the geography involved; the distances are much smaller sometimes than those you may be used to.

What I will comment further on is the rental car vs the train issue. The car will give you the maximum amount of flexibility but it also means you have to consider and add IN the costs of parking and parking in Europe is not necessarily the same as what you may be used to. There is also the cost of fuel and insurance (although some people are satisfied with what their credit card might offer).

Be aware that if you are planning to rent a car in one country and drop it in another one you may be incurring a major drop charge. Also, major highways on the Continent which are similar to US interstate highways sometimes are toll roads (Germany being an exception) or require you to purchase a sticker for your car in order to use them.

Are you familiar with the wholesaler/consolidator Autoeurope and its sister company Kemwel? Check out the autoeurope.com website; put in some dummy dates and places to get an idea of what a rental car might cost.

There is also the efficiency of getting from Point A to Point B and in some cases you can FORGET getting between the two in a car as fast as you can on the train unless you are going to be consistently driving at 186 mph and even in Germany you can forget that one.

How familiar are you with trains? The services in Europe are vastly more efficient and plentiful than they are in places like the US. But you will give up some of the flexibility you would have with a car.

Railpasses: may or may not be a good idea, economically. Passes are generally more economical if you are planning to use them a LOT. Often buying point to point tickets ends up being cheaper.

Budget airlines: if you decide to cut down the number of countries and even though it is often easier and sometimes faster to take a train from city center to city center, go to these sites for the possibility of BUDGET air carriers in Europe:

www.whichbudget.com

www.skyscanner.com

BE AWARE that these airlines may or may not fly direct between two points; they are similar to the US Southwest Airlines business model: the sooner you book the cheaper the flight.

Have a great trip.

sparkchaser

Three to four people seems to be the tipping point to where a car is more economical, but it depends on how much luggage you bring and how often you plan on switching cities. A family of four modestly packed can get by easily with a Passat Wagon or similar.

Be wary of the budget airlines. You pay for EVERYTHING. Nine times out of ten, if you book far enough in advance then legacy tickets are cheaper (and provide better service).

My "I don't know anything about you but you asked for a number" estimate for two months, not including airfare to/from Europe is $18k-20k. That comes out to around 200 Euro per day.

chartley

That's a very good summary of the options, Dukey, but I would add a couple of minor corrections.

Most of the flights in Europe are direct, and changing planes can add hugely to journey time and cost. Flights are sold as one-way, with no discount for buying a return, or penalty for flying into one place and out of another. You need to watch for baggage allowances, and expect to pay if you have larger bags and put them in the hold. Most of the other passengers will be Europeans who are on short business trips, one-week or weekend breaks, etc, and the flights are aimed at that market.

Many flights are also between regional airports, and this suits those of us who live outside the major centres. They may also fit in with your plans, and save you a journey back to London, for example.

Sometimes, the best way to find a flight is to look at the departure list from a particular airport, since this will show both low-cost and regular airlines. The final price may not vary much between the two.

Pegontheroad

My first suggestion for those who are uncertain about travel arrangements is to get a guidebook or two--maybe one that covers the major cities of Europe.

isabel

You can break your costs down into 1) lodging, 2) food, 3) admissions, and 4)local transportation.

1) very easy to find double rooms for, on average, 100€. More in cities, less in the countryside. You would need a quad and they are much less common ( as opposed to the US where every chain room is essentially a quad) but they are around. I would figure 150€/night. Look on booking.com, one of the major booking sites and you'll see prices including quad rooms.

2) Food - figure a minimum of 30€ per day per person. That is street food (eg pizza, a pannini, etc.), food from markets for picnics, etc. with occasional sit down meals in non fancy restaurants. Some countries (France) you can ask for tap water with sit down meals, in others you tend to get brought bottled water. Soft drinks cost as much as a glass of wine (but usually about €3. So I'd figure 150€/day - you could very easily go under that if you really want to, and of course most people go way over that.

3) Major 'sites' are now close to (or even more than) €10 per person. But so much is free. It differs from country to country. In London the museums are free but churches (Westminster Abbey, etc) cost. In Paris it's the other way around - museums cost but you can walk into Nortre Dame and other gorgeous churches for free. Overall though - walking around cities and exploring neighborhoods is the 'best' way to see new places and that is free. Really depends on your travel style. But I guess I would figure on at least 50€ per day and certainly more if you are the type that wants to go into every castle/museum/monument. Depending on how long you spend in a given city look into passes. And kids the age of yours will be free or reduced admission in lots of places (but not all).

4) The more you move the more it costs. On the other hand, to some extent that is why you are going in the first place. You really have to price that out but it's part of the planning process and you should be able to know in advance what it's going to cost. Go on the train sites for each country and put in dummy dates to get prices and see routes and schedules. Unlike airfare train prices don't really change from month to month. You can however, get very reduced prices by buying on line 3 months ahead. I got train tickets in France last summer for 25€ that would have been 80€ had I waited and bought them a few days before the trips. Same for Italy, UK, Belgium, etc. Cars can be cheaper for 4 people than train but parking, tolls, gas are quite expensive. For a two week car rental last summer I ended up spending more on those things than the cost of the rental itself. And drop fees if you want to pick up in one country and drop in another can be huge and not always noted on the websites. If you want to do that be sure to call AutoEurope/Kemwell and ask. Also check both of them as their prices can be very different even though they are related companies.

sparkchaser

<i>My first suggestion for those who are uncertain about travel arrangements is to get a guidebook or two--maybe one that covers the major cities of Europe.</i>

But, but it's easier for people to just ask here.

toledodd

did this with our kids i 1984 and had a great time. have been back 10+ times since. i would recommend. choose 6-7 locations and spend a week or so there. you will get much more of a feel for life in other cultures. would recommend staying in the countryside (check for apartments/houses on VRBO) and then you can take public transport into cities and also use you car (check a lease for that amount of time) for day trips to the surrounding area. if you want to see "all" of europe, then be ready for a constant get up early and go go go every day. not the best idea with such young kids. europe doesn't have to be expensive!

Gretchen

In a scenario above, bare bones, and assuming finding a room for 4 has the budget at 260E. And I think that is VERY bare bones, especially for food. No transportation, no entries.

If you have 60 days and average 400E--24,000E. That may be enough (not at all sure), but if that is too much to even consider then the OP needs to start paring down places, or overall time.

Mimar

Are you planning to go to cities or avoid them? Or a mix? A car is a hindrance in European cities. Parking is expensive and hard to find. Public transportation is very good. Switzerland has superb public transportation, and some of the cutest towns are car-free. So Switzerland is another place not to have a car.

On the other hand, a car is really necessary for some destinations. Provence, Tuscany and Umbria, the Dordogne come immediately to mind. (Not to say you can't visit these places without a car, but you'll see much less and spend a lot of time waiting for the next bus to come, not fun with 2 young kids.)

If you plan your trip carefully, you can rent a car for part of your trip only, see some of the countryside, -- and avoid the large charge for dropping the car off in a different country.

golfdude

Thanks a lot for all the posts and suggestions. $500 USD per day is way over my budget !! I was thinking more like $300 USD per day. Let me start planning and I might have to cut down on the places or number of days to accommodate my budget.

We plan to do a mixture of both cities and countrysides. One other question I had was is it possible to rent apartments in Europe with kitchens ? That way if we can cook one evening meal in the kitchen, I am guessing we can cut down on the food bill. I checked airbnb and found apartments with kitchens which looked cheaper than hotels.

Thanks.

nytraveler

$300 per day for a family of 4 is VERY tight. Most rooms in europe have one double bed - so you are either getting two rooms or getting a family room - which is going to be more expensive. And for the most modest hotels that will mean sharing baths, no AC and stairs versus elevators.

Also you are doing a LOT of traveling - which will not be cheap for 4 people.

Once you allow for even budget dining (picnics etc), local transit (often much more expensive than in the US), sights and an ice cream or sit down at a cafe for a coffee/soda once in a while you will have totally blown yuor budget.

Suggest pick a couple of the places you KNOW you want to stay and look at costs of local transit, major sights and budget places to stay - to get a feel for how tight your budget can be.

Yes, there are many apts available to rent - but for that you have to do a LOT of work - to make sure it isn;t a scam, to figure out where it is (neighborhood/safety and how close to transit) and size/amenities (apts in europe are typically much smaller than in the US and for your budget you would need to be putting all 4 of you in a studio I think.

Christina

US$300 a day? That is about 220 euro. Could you explain how you were coming up with that figure? Maybe someone could figure out where you went wrong, whether lodging or food (the main components). And that is even without the car or local transportation costs. I guess if you thought you could spend only 25 euro per person per day on all food and drink and get a room for four for 120 euro, that would do it, with no extra money for any transportation or sightseeing. Without the transportation and any sightseeing fees, that would be highly unlikely, but theoretically possible if you really don't eat in restaurants much and only buy drinks from supermarkets. But with the transportation issues (and talk of renting cars), I think it would be impossible.

Travelforbeer

1.How do you get your school age kids out of school that long?
2. The last time I saw a "Europe on $80 per day" paperback was 10-15 years ago.
3. Just returned from 20 days in (relatively) low cost Germany- 2 folks by car, no cost for 12 hotel nights except for car parking, free breakfast every day, inexpensive apartment with free car parking 5 nights,3 star hotel 3 nights, no fancy meals (most expensive was $60), lunches were always street food or home made sandwiches, didn't spend a dime on sightseeing, bought a sweater and a few T-shirt souvenirs, and we still burned about $400 per day excluding roundtrip airfare. Good luck with a budget of $300 per day for 2+2...

sparkchaser

Homeschooled?

RogerM

Based on our experience last year I think $300 USD a day for a family of 4 is very do-able. It just takes some planning.

Last autumn (Sept-Nov) we visited 5 countries, had a car for 55 days, ate and drank well, visited every museum, gallery or historic site we wanted, attended a day-long cooking class, brought home lots of Provencale fabric and, at the end of it all, were pleasantly surprised to find that over the course of 85 days we averaged well under $200 USD per day - for 2 adults.

We stayed in a series of apartments (along with a few Hotels/B&B's while traveling in between), and balanced the expensive apartments (e.g. Lyon and Paris) with considerably lower-priced places in the Languedoc, Dordogne and Provence). All the apartments were at least 1 bedroom (one place was 4 bedroom villa) and none were what I would consider marginal or poorly located in any way.

For us, the single major factor in cost control was limiting food and drink costs by having almost all our evening and morning meals at "home". For us an enjoyable part of travel is shopping at the markets whether they be open air or a typical supermarket. Sometimes it's a bit of a puzzle and frustrating but usually it's enjoyable and always educational. About half the time we had lunch "in" but along with occasional picnics, the bistros, kebab places and traiteurs got their share of our attention.

Our car was a purchase/buyback arranged through RenaultUSA (diesel) and I think we put well over 3000 miles on it. This was the third time we've used RenaultUSA and it's always been a good experience. Most of the apartments were arranged before we left on the trip and in the Languedoc and Dordogne we stayed for 2 and 3 weeks and got very nice discounts for the extension. As others have noted, you don't want the car in the cities so plan your route and schedule accordingly.

Good luck with your planning!