Just curious:<BR><BR>Next summer we plan to end a Germany/Switzerland trip in Montreux, then spend a week in Paris before flying home. I was very excited to see that Easy Jet now flys Geneva to Paris Orly -- in just an hour and ten minutes. How great! And if I can book way ahead (they only book until March right now) we could get those tickets for as little as about 15 Euro each. Seemed ideal until I started putting it all together.<BR><BR>To get the 9:25 flight from Geneva, we should leave Montreux on the 6:39 train to safely transfer at the Geneva airport. When we get to Orly, we take a taxi into Paris, so I figure the total time is about 5 1/2 hours. There is still the problem of having to check and wait for luggage (sorry, more than carryons) and I'm not sure how involved the transfer from train to Easy Jet is at Geneva.<BR><BR>On the other hand, we can take a train leaving Montreux at 8:39 (a much more civilized hour) and arrive by TGV in Paris at 1:21, short taxi trip to the hotel so the whole time is only a little over 5 hours -- actually shorter that the total time with plane and just one really easy transfer at Lausanne from one train to another.<BR><BR>Obviously we'd save some money (I figure about $100 for the two of us, traveling first class on TGV) if we got the cheapest fares with Easy Jet, but somehow the train still just seems so much more relaxing and stress free. Am I alone in this thinking? I know many people have always said the same thing about taking the Eurostar London to Paris instead of flying, and that is even a more obvious one.<BR><BR>And before my detractors slam me with insults for posting what they will call a pompous or stupid post, let me suggest that if this post is not worth a reply, then don't.

I'm living in France right now, and I can tell you that the TGV isn't that comfortable ... and it cost me (group rate and as a student) 53 euros from Paris to Pau (6 hours south of Paris; 3 hours south of Bordeaux). <BR><BR>Train rates vary, but planes can also be cheaper ... I would suggest that you price check .. and see, also, if you want to spend 6 hours on a train compared to almost 2 hours on a plane. <BR><BR>Sometimes planes are cheaper than trains .. I was quoted 87 euros for a aller retourn to Paris with Air France. The train would have cost 130 euros.

Maybe you didn't read my entire post, Genesea, but I'm talking about less than 5 hours on the train compared to about an hour and a half on a train to Geneva plus a little over an hour on the plane. It is the total length of time allowing for the transfers and transportation to and from the airport as well as a longer check in time for planes than trains that I'm talking about. In the end, the total time with the plane option actually becomes longer than the total train option.<BR><BR>Also, yes you are correct. It is considerably cheaper in this case to fly than to take the train. I have taken TGV many times and I certainly find it to be a lot more comfortable than any airplane I've ever been on, plus you have the freedom to move about, so if comfort becomes an issue, then the train certainly wins out.

In your case the train sounds eminently more civilized -- and the TGV can't be worse than most sardine class seats anyway. The &quot;travel-time&quot; is longer than a flight, but the hassle-level is muuuuch lower with the train in this case I would think.<BR><BR>On the other hand I don't understand people flying into a major airport and then getting to a train station [except when you can direct transfer as for some trains at CDG and FRA], when a quick and cheap flight reduces the hassle in the other direction.<BR><BR>Sounds like a great trip

Patrick, I agree with you. In addition with a plane there is a far greater chance of the plane's departure being delayed by a mechanical failure or a weather problem. I've never had a train departure delayed for either. <BR>Mike

What is the second-class fare by train ? I've travelled the length and breadth of Europe by train without ever feeling the need to pay for first class. By train, you'll probably see more scenery, learn more about the places you're passing through, and cause far less damage to the environment.

Patrick,<BR>Since you are going to stay IN Paris, I think that decides it in favor of the train, as it terminates at Gare Lyon near the heart of Paris (one Metro stop from Bastille). That way you don't have to hassle the trip into Paris from the airport.<BR><BR>I returned from Montreux to Paris via TGV on that exact train. First class is desirable on the TGVs; even at that, they're not as spacious as SBB (Swiss) trains. Get your reservations (mandatory) in Montreux at least 24 hours before departure.<BR><BR>You might consider training to Montreux from Lucerne via the Golden Pass route. That would justify purchase of a Europass Saver for $300 each. Your TGV ticket would run at least $100 each anyway, and you would also get another 3 days' worth of SBB travel.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Since you'll be staying in Paris, I think the train is the way to go.<BR>The good thing about it is the TGV drops you at Gare Lyon in Paris, which is practically in the heart of Paris

Thanks, Tim. Actually we'll be doing a lot of train travel in Switzerland and will have a Swiss Pass which gives us a discount on the TGV (plus free on the part within Switzerland).

Patrick,<BR><BR>No transfer is necessary from Montreux. <BR><BR>The Lausanne-Paris 13:21 TGV actually originates south of Lac Leman, and stops in Montreux at 9:14, which is when I got on.

Tim, are you sure? I can't find any TGV going through Montreux, and according to the schedule that 13:21 train departs from Lausanne at 9:14. Are you sure that's not where you got on?

Topping for Tim, hoping that he can shed some light on this. Am I missing something on the TGV route?

Patrick,<BR><BR>The TGV service to Montreux is seasonal: it's a &quot;TGV des neiges&quot; which runs from Paris to the Valais during the ski season (Dec. through April). I think it only runs 1-2x a week (Sat-Sun).<BR><BR>Anyway, otherwise it's just a short train ride to Lausanne where you can change to the TGV. Connections via Geneva take slightly longer.<BR><BR>BTW, I<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR>Andre

Oops - must have hit tab by accident... Here's the full text:<BR><BR>Patrick,<BR><BR>The TGV service to Montreux is seasonal: it's a &quot;TGV des neiges&quot; which runs from Paris to the Valais during the ski season (Dec. through April). I think it only runs 1-2x a week (Sat-Sun).<BR><BR>Anyway, otherwise it's just a short train ride to Lausanne where you can change to the TGV. Connections via Geneva take slightly longer.<BR><BR>BTW, I can't understand who would want to fly from Geneva to Paris either, unless you were renting a car and driving westwards (Loire, Bretagne). Otherwise the train is much more convenient.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR>Andre

I've always found the train to be a lot less stressful than the plane. No standing on line, no getting there 1-2 hours before it leaves, etc. <BR><BR>Hauling that luggage is a pain though.<BR><BR>

<BR><BR>I used to take trains all the time, for trips both short and long. But once I took a plane flight within Europe for the first time, I liked it. So now I take the plane for longer trips, but still prefer the train for short trips.

Hi<BR><BR>it depends on route,distance and reliability.<BR><BR>I like the TGV experience.<BR>However, neither TGV or aircraft go everywhere.<BR><BR>If you have a choice, once over 500 or 1000 km, the plane wins.<BR><BR>Its also cheaper, if you are on a low cost route.<BR><BR>The last 3 experiences with French TGV have been a problem :<BR><BR>1) a visitor missed the connection from Germany, lost their sleeper, ended up in day carriages for 36 hrs<BR>2) My father was due to travel Nimes - Waterloo, but there was a strike. Initially, they refused to rebook tickets because the return ticket, booked in UK, was cheaper than the French price. This reached regional director level before it was settled. My father is 77 y.o. and loves trains.<BR>3) Last week, I booked TGV Nimes - Paris via internet for visitors. Tickets for collection. When they arrived at the station, their cc machine would not accept his cc, despite the fact that he had already been debited with the cost. The station position was ;<BR>a)Yes his card has already been debited for this ticket via internet (I can see that)<BR>b) But I can't give him the ticket unless his card works here.<BR>c) So you need to pay again to get a ticket, then claim the repayment<BR><BR>This visitor, from Australia was rather upset<BR><BR>So, <BR>Cheap flights are cheaper<BR>Trains are more comfortable<BR><BR>But, its easier to book and travel by plane, and worth it if its over a certain distance<BR><BR>I will not recomend the TGV again.<BR><BR>Sad, but true.<BR> <BR>Peter<BR>The Languedoc Page<BR>http://tlp.netfirms.com<BR><BR>

I've lived in Europe and have been back many times and was always a fan of trains until our last trip. True, we were traveling during Easter, but had been advised that we didn't need reservations in advance in Spain and France. That turned out to be awful advise! <BR><BR>To begin with, we had to cancel one day in Seville because we couldn't get from there to Madrid as planned. Even though the trains ran every hour, they were booked solid when we tried to get reservations in Spain.<BR><BR>We actually had reservations on a train from Monpillier (sp?) to Cannes, but despite this, were not able to have a confirmed seat and had to lug all our luggage through several cars before we could find a vacant one. (We had first class tickets, but there wasn't even a first class section on this train.)<BR><BR>We also had problems getting from Madrid to Toledo and spent over 4 hours waiting around the train station in Madrid. Seemed no one could tell us when the train would get there! <BR><BR>I'm starting to plan another trip now and am thinking of renting cars or flying rather than taking the trains. <BR><BR>However, I've found the trains in Germany and Switzerland to run more true to schedule (except one time out of Montreax when there had been a problem with cows getting on the tracks!)<BR><BR>But I would strongly advise you to get all your reservations in advance from the States--I sure wish we had!

<BR>For Julie.<BR><BR>I do agree that you must book seats in France and Spain during the Easter and Christmas periods, in high summer, and for national holidays, but see no need to book for such low season times as the months of November and February.<BR><BR>Please can you tell me the times of the train from Montpellier to Cannes, as the only trains on this line that have no first class seats are the night trains, which have first class couchettes.<BR><BR>When you wanted to go to Toledo was the departure indicator board not working ?<BR><BR>People who want to book seats while still in the States can avoid the fifty percent handling fees of RailEurope if they book hrough two others agencies in the States:<BR>Euraide, offices in Florida and Germany: http://www.euraide.de/. Telephone in USA 1 941-480-1555. Fax 1 941-480-1522. E-mail [email protected]<BR>Rail-owned DER travel agency in the USA: http://www.der.com<BR><BR>Ben Haines<BR>

Ben,<BR>Thank you so much for the websites for booking in advance from the U.S. Wish I had had them before our trip.<BR><BR>The Montpellier-Cannes train was mid-afternoon. (This was in April.)<BR><BR>The indicator board in Madrid said the train to Toledo would be at 12 something (can't remember exact time now), but didn't get there until after 4. We kept asking and they kept saying it was due...(due when was another issue).

I would think the train is ideal for the short hauls, as mentioned above.<BR><BR>Also, I've used it for a trip that is just long enough for an overnight run - Paris to Venice, for example. The price is cheaper than flying; no taxi-to-the-airport fees; it substitutes for a night's hotel costs, saving some money there; but most important, the thing most at a premium in Eurpore for me is time. <BR><BR> Flying can waste most of a day. If I take a train trip that leaves at 8PM and arrives at 9AM, I have all day before and after for touristing.