Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Amsterdeam: Sea of Bikes Swamping City!

Search

Amsterdeam: Sea of Bikes Swamping City!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 09:44 AM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Read Hembrow, and you can see why the "there isn't space for bike lanes" argument is spurious. As in The Netherlands, it's the political will to provide decent infrastructure for cyclists that comes first and determines the outcomes.

this kind of infrastructure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0CKr0UXQsM

would simply be unacceptable in the Netherlands. I can full well understand why cyclists can't use it as it has been designed, because it wasn't designed with cyclists' best interests in mind.

per billion km's cycled, NL has 9 fatalities (without much helmet use), the UK 21. Don't know the US figure.
menachem is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 10:08 AM
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,700
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
There appears to be strong evidence that wearing helmets makes drivers think the bicyclist is ready for the fight, while cyclists think they are protected. Since the thing that kills them is a tonne and drives at 30 mph min it is unlikely that a helmet has any use apart from making helmet manufacturer's happy. Studies in Australia and Spain where helmets are mandatory merely show that helmets stop people cycling. (fewer deaths and fewer cycled miles)

So to get healthier cyclists you need a whole bunch of stuff. Good infrastructure, car drivers who are also bicyclists, bicyclists who are also car drivers and generally tolerant road sense. The upside for a society is you get lower medical costs (due to a healthier population) and streets brought back to the side of the angels (rather than where hustlers hang out).
bilboburgler is online now  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 10:12 AM
  #23  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,700
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Stats on deaths per kilometer cycled are frightening with Netherland, Denmark and Germany way in the lead. Poland way out at the back in Europe.

A UK transport minister recently got pilloried for claiming there are fewer deaths by cycling that in Netherlands (there are, even taking into account the population difference) but of course not by kilometers cycled. He made it worse by suggesting the UK could give the Netherlands advice on bike lane design.
bilboburgler is online now  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 11:16 AM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,045
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We couldn't get over cyclists on roads like the A2 in the UK. Dual carriageways, 70+mph speeds, motorway style on/off ramps and cyclist riding in the gutter. Terrifying.
hetismij2 is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 01:03 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was astonished how quiet the streets are in Amsterdam without all the noise of cars. Once I got used to being a more aware pedestrian, I was very impressed with the cyclists.
KTtravel is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 02:08 PM
  #26  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No Dutch wear helmets - never sen one and they would probably be ostracized for it and considered Cassandras due to billoburgler's comments about the efficacy of helmets - studies I have seen bear it out too - helmets can even makes cyclists feel safer than they are and take more risks, etc.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 09:11 PM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, they do but in the situations that makes it sensible. For instance, if I cycle at a speed of 30 km/h, I do wear a helmet. One bit of loose gravel on the road and a fall... And you see many groups of cyclists on training runs on road bikes wearing helmets too. But not in everyday cycling so much, because there it doesn't add to safety. As David Hembrow doesn't stop pointing out: it's subjective safety that counts.

And in Amsterdam a bike is simply the most (cost) efficient means of getting from A to B. Try reaching an address along one of the canals by car... ugh!
menachem is offline  
Old Jun 23rd, 2013, 11:13 PM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,700
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
if I could do thirty i'd wear a helmet too
bilboburgler is online now  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 03:06 AM
  #29  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the normal daily commute to work and school in the Netherlands, people mostly don't wear helmets. It's not thought to be more dangerous than walking to work - would you wear a helmet when walking to work?

For longer trips, cycling at speed on the road, or for mountainbiking, many people do wear helmets.
Tulips is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 03:45 AM
  #30  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many websites of touring clubs mandate "need to be able to maintain 30km/h average" on training runs. Such groups are more than a nuisance on bike paths. But they wear helmets...
menachem is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 04:46 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We were very impressed by the school bike trips we saw around the villages along the Vecht. Twenty or so youngsters all cycling together with perhaps two adults. They seemed well organised and well supervised.

We did find it a challenge to remember to look both ways when approaching a roundabout as the cyclists on the cycle path came from both directions.
spiral is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 05:44 AM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,045
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They certainly are, menachem. They may wear helmets but tend to ignore traffic lights and the rules of the road so they need them!
hetismij2 is offline  
Old Jun 24th, 2013, 06:31 AM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 23,787
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
In Paris it took about six months for the new bike riders on the municipal bikes and the four wheeled vehicles to learn to live with each other.
kerouac is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
PhillyFan
Europe
69
Jul 3rd, 2014 01:32 AM
slackercruster
Europe
11
Feb 23rd, 2014 04:08 AM
ltr
Europe
5
Mar 13th, 2010 03:09 AM
Beechtree
Europe
4
Mar 21st, 2004 03:35 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -