ambitious itinerary for Paris virgin
Aug 28th, 2008, 01:53 PM
#21
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"But these formulaic ideas about how to tour Paris or Italy or wherever are a crock."
zeppole, I would drop the word 'crock' and replace it with 'guide'.
Just as our opinions about whether to go or not go St. Denis or the Leaning Tower of Pisa will never be totally be the same as auntcindy's or anyone else's, we all get to say our piece here.
Cheers!
zeppole, I would drop the word 'crock' and replace it with 'guide'.
Just as our opinions about whether to go or not go St. Denis or the Leaning Tower of Pisa will never be totally be the same as auntcindy's or anyone else's, we all get to say our piece here.
Cheers!
Aug 28th, 2008, 05:10 PM
#22
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"Sorry, I meant to type: Can't take you seriously (as the sorter-out of who is and isn't an art lover).
"The dogma of balance is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't apply to everyone. For those committed to greatness, for instance, it should be anathema. For those who passionately love their work, it's a lot of guilt-inducing folderol. And even for the rest of us, it is rhetoric that doesn't quite equal the reality, because the world would be a lot poorer without people willing to throw themselves heart and soul into whatever they're doing."
Or as Steven Millhauser wrote:
''For what is genius, I ask you, but the capacity to be obsessed?''
Do you have any idea how long the artists who painted those pictures that hang in the D'Orsay spent hanging out in the Louvre?"
What a pretentious , pompous
posturing!
"The dogma of balance is fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't apply to everyone. For those committed to greatness, for instance, it should be anathema. For those who passionately love their work, it's a lot of guilt-inducing folderol. And even for the rest of us, it is rhetoric that doesn't quite equal the reality, because the world would be a lot poorer without people willing to throw themselves heart and soul into whatever they're doing."
Or as Steven Millhauser wrote:
''For what is genius, I ask you, but the capacity to be obsessed?''
Do you have any idea how long the artists who painted those pictures that hang in the D'Orsay spent hanging out in the Louvre?"
What a pretentious , pompous
posturing!
Aug 28th, 2008, 07:36 PM
#24
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Tdudette,
I never said or even implied people couldn't say their piece here. I do it all the time and without inhibition.
A comment like St Denis shouldn't be a high priority for a first time in Paris is a crock. Instead of what? A Rick Steves tour? Rick Steves is a crock.
I never said or even implied people couldn't say their piece here. I do it all the time and without inhibition.
A comment like St Denis shouldn't be a high priority for a first time in Paris is a crock. Instead of what? A Rick Steves tour? Rick Steves is a crock.
Aug 28th, 2008, 07:46 PM
#26
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Tdudette,
I always hate that "lighten up" stuff after people have said don't go to one of the world's greatest art sites -- the very birthplace of Gothic architecture -- or go to bed instead of staying up looking at art. I can't imagine people saying skip Westminster Cathedral, it's not a high-priority for a first time visitor to London. Go sit in a cute pub instead.
But like I've said in six different posts now, maybe auntcindy -- having heard St Denis is a serious piece of art and architecture -- will cross it right off her list.
I always hate that "lighten up" stuff after people have said don't go to one of the world's greatest art sites -- the very birthplace of Gothic architecture -- or go to bed instead of staying up looking at art. I can't imagine people saying skip Westminster Cathedral, it's not a high-priority for a first time visitor to London. Go sit in a cute pub instead.
But like I've said in six different posts now, maybe auntcindy -- having heard St Denis is a serious piece of art and architecture -- will cross it right off her list.
Aug 29th, 2008, 09:57 AM
#27
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I'm not quite so pessimistic about this itinerary (this whole "follow your nose" idea doesn't strike me as helpful -- and please note that this itinerary will allow for plenty of chances to wander the Paris streets), but it will likely need some weeding:
Thursday: unless the D'Orsay is open Thursday nights, you'll probably have to choose between that or the Ceramics museum. And there's plenty of good stuff at the D'Orsay, so it may take a while. Consider that you may have jet lag, which may limit your appreciation today and is further reason to trim one of these museums.
Friday: I'd trim Belleville and one of the two museums from this list. Note that the Louvre is HUGE, and the Pompidou is pretty sizeable.
Saturday: Probably more do-able than the others.
Sunday: Rushed but may be do-able. Probably a good idea to get to the Eiffel Tower first (and early) if you want to go up it.
A museum pass will likely be essential to avoid long lines at the museums.
Thursday: unless the D'Orsay is open Thursday nights, you'll probably have to choose between that or the Ceramics museum. And there's plenty of good stuff at the D'Orsay, so it may take a while. Consider that you may have jet lag, which may limit your appreciation today and is further reason to trim one of these museums.
Friday: I'd trim Belleville and one of the two museums from this list. Note that the Louvre is HUGE, and the Pompidou is pretty sizeable.
Saturday: Probably more do-able than the others.
Sunday: Rushed but may be do-able. Probably a good idea to get to the Eiffel Tower first (and early) if you want to go up it.
A museum pass will likely be essential to avoid long lines at the museums.
Aug 29th, 2008, 10:22 AM
#28
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It isn't a crock, it is merely an opinion, the same as yours (zeppole) is just an opinion. It is also just your opinion that only you have the one true attitude towards a frist-timer seeing St Denis amongst all the other things desired (none of which appear to be something to do with a Rick Steves tour). St Denis isn't the same as Westminster Abbey because it is in a suburb to the north, and W Abbey is right in the center of London near a bunch of other things people may want to see.
People have their own priorities. I know you think you are so superior to everyone in your opinions about art/architecture, but most people are not reall medieval French history and architecture scholars and don't even know anything about Suger nor the royalty and history of France and St Denis, nor the history of stained glass. So it will be meaningless to them, anyway, and seeing another big cathedral with nice stained glass windows may not mean much to them.
I would hope auntcindy can read what these things are, what there is to see there, and make up her own mind as to what is important to her. Wouldn't that be the best idea rather than just doing what other people say is the only correct thing to do? I never ask anyone what I should do on a trip, actually, I just read about the sights in a guidebook and decide for myself because I know my priorities and interests are not the same as others and no reason why everyone's should be the same.
For some reason you seem to take it personally that anyone ever has an opinion different than yours and can't accept the fact that there is no right or wrong about saying what one must do on a vacation. I don't personally believe ANYTHING that involves touring the inside of an old buildings is a must-see on any trip. The only thing I'd say was a must see was seeing some part of the general layout and famous vista or historical site of a city. For example, I would say it is a must-see in Paris to see the Seine, the islands and Notre Dame and some buildings just to get a grasp of the city and layout, but I wouldn't say it is even a must-see for everyone to see the inside of Notre Dame.
People have their own priorities. I know you think you are so superior to everyone in your opinions about art/architecture, but most people are not reall medieval French history and architecture scholars and don't even know anything about Suger nor the royalty and history of France and St Denis, nor the history of stained glass. So it will be meaningless to them, anyway, and seeing another big cathedral with nice stained glass windows may not mean much to them.
I would hope auntcindy can read what these things are, what there is to see there, and make up her own mind as to what is important to her. Wouldn't that be the best idea rather than just doing what other people say is the only correct thing to do? I never ask anyone what I should do on a trip, actually, I just read about the sights in a guidebook and decide for myself because I know my priorities and interests are not the same as others and no reason why everyone's should be the same.
For some reason you seem to take it personally that anyone ever has an opinion different than yours and can't accept the fact that there is no right or wrong about saying what one must do on a vacation. I don't personally believe ANYTHING that involves touring the inside of an old buildings is a must-see on any trip. The only thing I'd say was a must see was seeing some part of the general layout and famous vista or historical site of a city. For example, I would say it is a must-see in Paris to see the Seine, the islands and Notre Dame and some buildings just to get a grasp of the city and layout, but I wouldn't say it is even a must-see for everyone to see the inside of Notre Dame.
Aug 29th, 2008, 12:34 PM
#29
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zeppole, I respect your knowledge but don't understand why you think guidebooks are not worthwhile (especially for a first-timer with time constraints). Hope the Fodor's folks don't read your post!
For the record, my advice was to choose between sites because of the time factor.
For the record, my advice was to choose between sites because of the time factor.
Aug 29th, 2008, 08:25 PM
#30
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"danon,
You do realize the quotes were there for a reason, right? First quote was from Daniel Akt, second from Steven Millhauser."
Yes , I do.
Pomposity and pretension.
"Gorging on art never made me sick in Paris. Try it sometime. You might like it."
No, thank you.
Gorging is vulgar.
You do realize the quotes were there for a reason, right? First quote was from Daniel Akt, second from Steven Millhauser."
Yes , I do.
Pomposity and pretension.
"Gorging on art never made me sick in Paris. Try it sometime. You might like it."
No, thank you.
Gorging is vulgar.
Aug 29th, 2008, 10:06 PM
#31
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Christina,
I just don't know how to respond to ideas like it's advisable for someone who has just traveled 6,000 miles to see Westminster Abbey because it is near other things, but inadvisable for someone who has just traveled 6,000 miles to see St Denis because it's 20 minutes from the Eiffel Tower.
I don't take disagreements personally in the slightest. I've already been to St Denis! I just think some of the advice I see given on Fodor's is so numb to other people's individual passion in traveling -- or the possibility of it, it makes me want to shout over the drone.
So I do.
Tdudette,
I don't believe I ever said guidebooks aren't worthwhile. I use guidebooks and often recommend specific ones here on Fodor's. I said Rick Steves is a crock -- because he is. He's selling this potted idea of Europe and travel to people.
danon,
I'll take that vulgarian William Blake over you any day:
"The road to excess leads to the palace of wisdom... for we never know what is enough until we know what is more than enough."
I just don't know how to respond to ideas like it's advisable for someone who has just traveled 6,000 miles to see Westminster Abbey because it is near other things, but inadvisable for someone who has just traveled 6,000 miles to see St Denis because it's 20 minutes from the Eiffel Tower.
I don't take disagreements personally in the slightest. I've already been to St Denis! I just think some of the advice I see given on Fodor's is so numb to other people's individual passion in traveling -- or the possibility of it, it makes me want to shout over the drone.
So I do.
Tdudette,
I don't believe I ever said guidebooks aren't worthwhile. I use guidebooks and often recommend specific ones here on Fodor's. I said Rick Steves is a crock -- because he is. He's selling this potted idea of Europe and travel to people.
danon,
I'll take that vulgarian William Blake over you any day:
"The road to excess leads to the palace of wisdom... for we never know what is enough until we know what is more than enough."
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