I'm assuming these people who wear these defenders, use lights in an agressive manner or whatever - never ever feel the need to recline their own seat no matter what the circumstances.

As for the person who inhales black pepper to cause a sneezing fit so as to annoy their fellow travellers, well no wonder we have air rage with cretins like this aboard.
This reminds me of the person who boasted that they didn't wash when they travelled on trains so as to avoid having people sitting next to them.

ps....Marilyn your comments are wonderful! At last someone speaking up for those of us shorter than 6 foot!

NO ONE has addressed this question. If the seats are not to be reclined, why are they built to recline?

Maybe the seats are built to recline only when doing so doesn't deprive the guy or gal behind you of their own "rights" on an airplane.

I'm short, so a reclining seat in front of me never bothered me, and I recline myself. But I raise my seat when meals arrive and when the person behind me has to get out to go to the bathroom or stretch their legs to avoid DVT.

If it's a matter of "balancing" rights, I don't think it's too much to ask that a seat be raised for the short period of time it takes someone to eat a meal or use the bathroom. If the person in front shows at least that much curtesy, I think can refrain from sneezing on them the rest of the flight.

Whilst I agree that a reclined seat makes it a little bit more difficult to get out from your seat, with teh hinging mechanism on the tables I can't say I've ever noticed a problem eating from a table when the seat in front of me is reclined.

What airlines do you people fly where coach seats recline THAT far back to be in someone's lap?? I'd really like to know since I generally fly one airline and its' seats do not recline more than a few inches, as CD pointed out.

The man in front of me on my last flight jerked his seat back so hard that it spilled my coffee. It wasn't the fact that he put his seat back that was annoying but the way he did it.

I tapped him on the shoulder and said I am still eating would you mind lifting your seat up a little and he did. It is a matter of courtesy on both sides of the seatback.

The man (the one I mentioned on another thread) across the aisle from me wedged his beer bottle from his tray to the notch which keeps the tray shut and the woman in front of him could lean back but not all the way down. I think I will do that from now on when I am eating so the person in front of me can't scald me with spilled coffee.

"'I'm short, so a reclining seat in front of me never bothered me, and I recline myself."

Interesting. I have not done a scientific survey, but I do fly often, mostly for business, and it seems to me that many short people do recline all the way (maybe because they don't know what a pain it is for a taller person like myself).

Conversely, I see that a good percentage of taller people do not recline or just recline a little bit because they know how uncomfortable it can be for that person behind them.

Yes, it is your right to recline, but using a little common sense and a little consideration would be nice.

Personally, I don't recline, but always go into the flight with the mind set that the person in front of me always will recline. When they don't, I am pleasantly surprised. When they do, well there's always an extra bottle of wine I can drink that can ease that pain while listening to my IPOD.

What I wanted to know when I posed the question (if you'd bother to look) is have anyone heard of these devises. It wasn't a discussion about how you feel about reclining seats. (Though that subject may never be exhausted!)

FF Flyer answered my question. The FA will simply take the device out for you, apparently. Of course, some may not think to ask one to do that. Here's the article/advertisement FF provided:

When we find ourselves into the limited legroom space of a coach seat offered by many airlines, a seat in front of us that is poised to recline is a collision waiting to happen – with our knees serving as bumpers.

Knee Defender™ to the rescue.

With Knee Defender™, the "Tall Guy" – tall men and tall women, both – can now use a simple, convenient, pocket-sized device to help defend against most flying seatbacks. And because Knee Defenders™ are adjustable, you can generally set them to provide only as much protection as you need.


Knee Defenders™ are sold

and used in pairs.

To read the actual quote (in pop-up window), click on graphic.


DVT is also a concern when you fly. Knee Defender™ can help you keep the space you need to do in-seat exercises, such as foot lifts and knee lifts, which are recommended to promote healthy blood flow to help protect against DVT (deep vein thrombosis). DVT, sometimes called "economy class syndrome", involves a potentially dangerous blood clot that can develop in the leg.

Having enough room to move around while still seated is important because in-seat exercising is often the only in-flight exercise option available to promote healthy circulation. This is especially true now that security agencies are imposing new limits on passenger access to the aisles, even during extended international flights.

If the airlines will not protect people from being battered, crunched, and immobilized – very real problems according to healthcare professionals, medical studies, government agencies, and even some airlines – then people need options to protect themselves.

Until there is something better – or even just something else – there is Knee Defender™.

When I fly I just sort of assume the worse. No, I am not a pessimist but there is always annoyances with flying, from security (I always get pulled aside) to late departures, to irritating passengers etc.

So I take a good book or two as I can fortunatly pretty much blank out the world with a good book.

And if all goes well, than I am pleasantly surprised. Air travel is not what it was years ago. But than a lot of society is not anymore. Manners and consideration seems to have gone down hill. So I try to just mentally zero in on the considerate people and ignore the rest. This way I do seem to find a lot of considerate people.

Happy travels to all.

can we have the names of those airlines with such generous reclining seats?? i, too, would like to know!

"As someone who travels very frequently I can tell you that, since I purchased the seat reservation, I am fully within my rights to lean back (all the way)."

While that is probably true, it still doesn't make a person with that attitude very considerate of their fellow passengers. I bet that the people who insist on putting their seats all the way back are the first ones to complain about a large passenger encroaching in their space.

As a tall person, who frequently has to travel in coach, I can tell you that it can be very uncomfortable to have someone in the seat in front of you fully recline their seat. Sometimes people are reasonable and accomodating, other times they are not. I've actually seen people argue with a FA when asked to move their seat up so that the person behind them can eat their meal. Just because you feel something is "within your rights," doesn't mean you should be rude or inconsiderate.

I kind of look at it the way LoveItaly does. This kind of attitude is symptomatic of the way a part of our society is heading - people who are just in it for themselves and to heck with the other guy. To the considerate ones out there, thank you.

OK, cd, I'll address your question. Just because something is capable of being used in a particular way does not mean that it is good or right to use it that way all the time. Your car is designed to go faster than 100 miles per hour, but you won't have your speeding ticket rescinded by the judge when you point that out in court.

There are circumstances in which it is a good idea to recline the seat as far as it is capable of reclining, and there are circumstances when it is not. When the rows were further apart, the fully reclined seat infringed much less on the person behind it. If the seat behind you is vacant, no problem. If it is occupied by a large person and reclining will make that person uncomfortable, it is a good idea to compromise. Neither person's comfort trumps the other one's comfort.

There are many comments here from people who are not uncomfortable when a person reclines in front of them. Good, I'm happy for you, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are making our discomfort up.

This is a problem caused by the design of the aircraft and not by the passengers themselves. The situation pits us against each other, and we must behave as civilized people to cope with it.

Giselle, it may be that you only wanted answers to one question, but there is no way to control a discussion once you have posted your remarks. It is also very difficult to discuss the knee defenders without discussing the situation which gives rise to their use.

I don't mind when the person in front of me reclines their seat on an overnight flight - after the meal has been served. Afterall, everyone is trying to catch a few winks.

What ticks me off is when someone reclines their seat on a daytime flight just for the heck of it - with no consideration for the person behind them. Let's face it - there is no way those seats can be considered comfortable. Reclining them a few inches doesn't make them any more comfortable.

I'm 5'9" and the lack of legroom I can deal with. I can't stand to have the seatback 5" from my face - it's so claustrophobic! Even makes reading difficult.

Giselle, to your original question: No, you are not wrong in wanting to avoid conflict with another passenger. But you might be very wrong, and thereby cause harm or discomfort for yourself, if you don't take action to defend your own right to the shared space between you and the passengers both ahead and behind. For those behind, you should always (as already advised) at least glance back and ask or imply that you are about to recline your seat. For those ahead, you might try the following, which has worked unerringly for me: At the time the passengers are allowed to release seat belts and/or recline, lean forward and ask the person ahead of you to let you know if he/she intends to recline so you can get out of the way. I've had to do this many times because at 6 feet 2 inches, I can't find any room for my knees even with the seat ahead in a full upright position. It takes me a bit of adjusting to get my knees out of the way when a person ahead of me reclines his/her seatback. I've found that a little bit of courtesy can be contagious, and it avoids the instant agony that comes from some person ahead of you slamming the seat back all the way, quickly and without warning. There should be something written in the passenger information cards (not that anyone reads them) that asks passengers to be considerate when reclining.

So that's the way I have (almost) solved my problem. But heaven help me when there is a brat in the seat behind me who kicks incessantly on the back of my seat, with a parent who seems not to care. That's when I lose it.

I really don't understand the problem with people reclining their seats in front of you. I'm not a little guy, and when someone in front of me reclines all the way back it doesn't put them in my face or on my lap. I guess some of the folks posting here must have HUGE horse faces or be giants. The exception is during meals--something about having that seat hanging over my tray of slop bothers me.

Lean back. What do you mean. I haven't had a airline seat "lean" back since 1975. You must be confusing it with Amtrak. Now they "lean". Now you just change the angle about 3 degrees and if you are old enough to remember you "imagine " you are reclined...LOL...Everyone is trying to get where they are going with their nerves still intact..Now if you want to talk about something really iritating lets talk about the perfume and aftershave people bath in before they fly. As if we all want to smell some nasty perfume. If you don't like the way you smell TAKE A BATH ! Don't impose your stench on the rest of the cabin. Now multiply it by 50 different fragrances and mix it all together. EYE WATERING BARFF BAG.....But hey, you're going to Paris so I guess I should get used to the smell....LOL

Have a nice trip,

"LEANER"

Solutions:

- Fly first class, business class, or premium economy

- Fly Ryanair

- Fly enough so you get <b>high</b> elite status with your favorite airline, and get bulkhead/exit-row seats. [Or the Economy+ seats on UA.]

- Fly AA when they still have extra pitch in some of their planes

- Recline your own seat. Nobody can stop you from doing that.

- Go to sleep. You can't see or feel the seat in front of you when you're unconscious.

When I fly I am paying for a seat with room for my knees. The person in front of me has no right to my space.

Twice over the years I've had irate passengers in front of me voice complaints when I blocked their full recline. Let them find another seat with nobody behind it if they want to fully recline.

Giselle, <i>What I wanted to know when I posed the question (if you'd bother to look) is have anyone heard of these devises. It wasn't a discussion about how you feel about reclining seats. </i>

Actually, I did bother to look. You also asked if you are wrong in not wanting to get in a conflict with other passengers. Considering that the issue of potential conflict is entirely about their desire to recline their seat, I think your post definitely asks at least indirectly how we feel about reclining seats.

All,

This is an interesting thread because of all the travel I've done, I remember only one problem with this issue and it was very recently. Prior to that, I've never considered not reclining my seat and I've never had an issue with anyone reclining their seat.

On a recent trip I reclined my seat and it really bothered the guy behind me. He let me know. When I saw how tall he is, a point he mentioned to me, I realized that a reclined seat in front of him HAD to be a significant problem. From now on I hope to be more aware of the potential issue involved.