Airplane seatback device

Dec 14th, 2004, 08:57 PM
  #41  
 
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For everyone's info who may not be completely familiar with the device, here's a short article:

http://www.x-gadget.com/articles/56/...-Knee-Defender

Here is a picture of the "Knee Defender" device:

http://www.kneedefender.com/images2/...pass_2_lrg.jpg

So far, Northwest Airlines has banned the device. Other airlines may not have firm policies yet.
Flyboy is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 04:22 AM
  #42  
 
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Good for Northwest. I think that cmeyer54 summed it up best; the device really isn't necessary if everyone involved displayed some common courtesy. Now if they will just ban the use of cell phones on flights! I saw several news clips discussing the POSSIBLE use of cells phones during flights. I don't know about anyone else, but the last thing I want to do on a flight is listen to someone's inane phone conversation. I can just hear it now "Hi! I'm on the plane now, what are you doing?" Just seems like another crutch for insecure people who can't make a move without discussing it with someone one. I honestly can't think of anything so important that it can't wait until you land - you can't do anything about it up in the air anyway, what are you going to do - get off?
Margie is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 06:51 AM
  #43  
 
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One major flaw of the Knee Defenders... looks like you have to keep your tray table down when using it - another encroachment of space.
Kayb95 is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 09:10 AM
  #44  
 
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Are some of you kidding me? I would really like to know, as well, what airlines you fly with on which they have seats that recline to within 5 inches of your face! I'm obviously flying the wrong ones! If reclining my seat those extra 2 to 3 inches helps me get some rest, then you better believe I will be doing it! I've probably just worked for 17 hours and will need to land and go right back to work for another 17 hours!!
michelleNYC is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 09:28 AM
  #45  
 
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C'mon airlines! Get with it!

Don't you see the revenue potential for selling seat pitch? Just set up three or four sections of the cabin with different amounts of leg room (let your overpaid Operations Research mavens figure out how many of each) and price-point the offering.

Cheez, do I have to do everything for you?
Robespierre is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 10:33 AM
  #46  
 
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Robespierre,

Some airlines tried it in different forms.

AA had MRTC for no extra charge - guess what? It didn't make it, AA is putting seats back as their sales were no different than the other major airlines flying without MRTC.

There was a start up, based in Vegas few years ago that started "business" class seating only - didn't make it - gone!!

Midwest Airlines - earning praises every year for their roomy, leather covered, wide (2x2 instead of the normal 2x3) seating - bankruptcy, although still flying. I think (not sure) they did convert their seating to "normal"

So as you could see, people are NOT willing to pay, even the nominal charge, to have more comfort. They want cheap, cheap, cheap, what I call the "Wal-Mart" fare and then bitch about the comfort later.

It's sad, but it's true!
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 10:51 AM
  #47  
 
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At 6'-4" I'm glad I can usually get an upgrade. If I'm in coach and somebody puts their seat back, I'm forced to spread my legs with one in the aisle and the other in the middle seat area. Most people are pretty nice about it when I ask if they would mind not reclining, but I do occasionaly run into people like MichelleNYC who feel their "comfort" is the uppermost consideration. Since the airlines are not likely to change, I guess all us tall folks just have to rely on the goodness of most of our fellow human beings.
Jack is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 11:22 AM
  #48  
 
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Jack: I'm sorry that you're so tall and experience discomfort when someone reclines their seat those extra couple of inches. Ok, well what do you suggest then when I need to sleep (do I need to repeat myself re: having worked 17 hours and needing to work another 17?) and you need to keep your legs in front of you? I guess I should protest to my firm that they should pony up the extra money for me to fly business so that I can get some sleep? Or perhaps I should just suck it up, not sleep and sit completely upright like all the other respectful passengers? My apologies for my harsh tone but this issue really burns me up.
michelleNYC is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 11:46 AM
  #49  
 
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When you buy a ticket in cattle class you do so knowing the seats (including yours) recline and the person in front of you may exercise that option, as can you. If you want more space, fly first class. Is that fair to taller people? No, but life isn't fair. We may be sympathetic, but we all have our issues/crosses/problems. That doesn't mean we should retaliate against those who do not share our problems.
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Dec 15th, 2004, 01:02 PM
  #50  
laurensuite
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You know folks, I never have had a problem asking the flight attendant to tell the guy in front of me to put his seatback up when food was being served.
It is policy for all airlines to do this. I even saw a flight attendant wake up a guy to tell him to move his seat back to the upright position, because food was being served, and the person behind him needed to have their space to properly consume the meal.
 
Dec 15th, 2004, 01:10 PM
  #51  
 
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I certainly agree during food service but the rest of the time.... sorry.
michelleNYC is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 02:58 PM
  #52  
 
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Although this issue continues to be hotly debated on fodors, in all my miles flown, no one has EVER requested I put my seat back up. I do recline, although not during meals, and not always all the way. But to sleep on an international flight after the meal service? Yep, I recline as far as I can and have never had a peep from the person behind me. (If they asked, I'd have to compromise.)

Therefore my own experience (as opposed to the debate on here) leads me to conclude that people generally expect the person in front of them to recline their seat.

One more small point: when the seat in front of you comes flying back suddenly, please be aware that the person may not have intended for that to happen. Sometimes the seat mechanism does not operate smoothly, or the person may not be an experienced flyer.

So let's cut each other a little slack and try to work things out like civilized adults.
Marilyn is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 03:22 PM
  #53  
 
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From what I've read so far, it just comes down to common courtesy - some people have it and some don't. I can certainly understand why people would want to recline on a lengthy international flight or a red eye. But why anyone has to put their seat back on a flight lasting a few hours during the day is beyond me. I especially laughed when I read the posters telling tall people that if they didn't like it, they should pay for first class. Now that's a real compassionate approach.

Like some of the other posters, I am tall. I know the discomfort of having to sit several hours in coach, which is only made worse by recliners. Until now, AA hasn't been too bad, but United is just plain ridiculous. It would be much nicer if people would be a little more considerate of their fellow man. But after what I've read here, I really don't believe anyone is going to change these people's minds.
NotMe is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 03:39 PM
  #54  
 
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Flyertalk had a recent thread started by a poster who paid someone to switch to his less desirable seat. The other guy was happy to do it for $50.

I could just see this approach taking off, as it were. Overly wide passengers could pay seatmates for an inch of seat spaces. Overly tall passengers could pay the person in front of them not to recline. And so on.
WillTravel is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 03:39 PM
  #55  
 
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Wow!! I'm so surprised that people feel that people shouldn't recline. I'm with CD- the planes are made that way to give people optimum (I use the term loosly) comfort on a flight. My husband is 6'6" and barely fits, the planes fault? nope- we usually try to go business class so he has extra room, or get the exit row/bulkhead. We know people recline. I RECLINE. Right after take off!! I can't stand to sit straight up. I sit up when meals come or if someone asks me politly for a short amount of time (working on laptop, still eating, etc.)

What if someone was reading next to you and the light was bright, is that their fault? Should they turn it off for you?

I agree with those that say if you need it to be a certain way then buy a different class. If you don't want to or can't afford to then don't take it out on the rest of us.

I guarantee that if someone used that no recline thing on my seat I'd have the flight attendant reciting the passanger rights to them ASAP!

I'm still very surprised about this topic though! Who knew????
stormygirl is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 03:50 PM
  #56  
 
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I think cmeyer54 had a good idea about mentioning to the person in front of you to put up his/her seat so you could get the air sickness bag. But just a supposition, what if you didn't even have time to ask them to put up their seat? What a mess.
francophile03 is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 03:59 PM
  #57  
ET
 
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I find it fascinating that most of the posters defending the right to recline are women. Is it because they don't suffer from the same discomfort as taller males? Whoever said that women were the kinder, gentler of the species apparently never ran into these women.

Personally, I've had it all. The overweight seatmates, the smelly seatmates (perfume or otherwise), the crying children, the brats kicking the back of your seat, or the seatmate that just won't shut up. But having a seat reclined in your face for several hours is the most constant and the more annoying and just plain uncomfortable experience one can have. I wish I could afford to always fly first class, but I can't. I guess I'm just stuck with the rest of you.
ET is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 04:18 PM
  #58  
Cassandra
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Silly people, it's so obvious! If the person in the first row reclines, then by Dominoes' Law, everyone behind must recline. Then if the person in the last row complains to the FA that a meal cannot be consumed, then everyone from back to front must put the seat back up. When the AIRLINES made the decision to put the seats closer together than can accommodate reclining the back, they guaranteed that Domino Law -- and it's their fault, not the person in front of you.

I try to keep it upright for meals and recline only 1/2 way if things seem really tight in the cabin, but I doubt if I ever get points for that from the person behind me. Should I turn around and say, "I want you to know, I'm not reclining the seatback all the way out of consideration for you"? I'll probably get a "hopscotch" in that seat who thinks he "owns" the space into which my seat was DESIGNED to go.

And for the record, I've always assumed that the airline seats were actually designed for taller males, because frankly, as short and relatively (!) narrow as I am, those seats are terribly uncomfortable for me because of where the head/neck rest "bumps" are: they hit me in the back of the head and if I don't recline the seat and find support for my neck, I spend the flight forced to look down at my knees the whole time.

Flying is punishing for everyone in coach -- by design.
 
Dec 15th, 2004, 04:49 PM
  #59  
 
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Wow, ET. If you want to turn this into a battle of the sexes, let me remind you that it's usually men who have to sit with their legs spread wide apart, infringing on others' space in a movie theatre or on public transport even when they've got plenty of room in front. And it's usually men who walk down the street as if they own the sidewalk, forcing women to dart and dodge around them.
Do some observing and you'll see I'm right. Maybe in this case women are just taking the space that's rightfully theirs?

Seriously, I'm a tall woman and a mite claustrophobic. I despise it when the person in front of me in a plane - often a man - reclines fully. I hate that. Just like I hate sitting beside a large person, or a small person who infringes on my space. (Oh I might as well face it - I'll really only be happy when the entire plane is empty save for me and some attentive FAs, and pilots of course ).

If the airlines won't increase the legroom in economy class, we have no choice but to put up with it. Helps contribute to that air rage!

taggie is offline  
Dec 15th, 2004, 07:29 PM
  #60  
 
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What gets me... when you have to get out of your seat when the seat in front of you is reclined and the person gives you a dirty look if you have to hold onto the top of his/her seat to pry yourself out of the seat-sandwich.

I politely say "sorry" but I'm thinking "I wouldn't have to disturb you if you didn't have your seat reclined into my lap!"
Kayb95 is offline  

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