My friend and I are planning a trip to the UK. We are "young" seniors and are trying to decide the best option for us. I have looked into the bus tours but we would like to have a bit more freedom to spend time where we want to. I saw that Brit Rail has a website but would like advice on what would suit us best. They have so many options on types of passes. We would be mainly interested in England and Scotland and I believe we would probably fly into London (from Canada) and perhaps go out from there. At this point any input would be appreciated. We would prefer to travel in Sept. Thanks in advance.

marking for future comment - I've had zillions of BritRail Passes for decades now and always felt them a great value. But it depends of course on how many days of rail travel you envision and whether you want the option that the pass provides to hop any train anytime in Britain (save Northern Ireland) - the Fodor Mantra is the any railpass anytime is a waste of money - I adamantly think that is bad info - there are many variables and indeed a BritRail Pass IME can be a great deal - or, depending on your travel plans, be a bad deal.

Anyway for loads of great info on British trains and passes I always highlight these fantastic sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com - and also www.nationalrail.co.uk where you can get all the various fares - there are deep discounts online if you want to book far in advance and have non-changebale non-refundable tickets many times.

Some Americans, ill-informed about ordinary British railway fares, and often carried away by the unAmerican novelty of a railway system, enthuse over these passes (sold, BTW, by the American subsidiary of a French company). Stripped of their rhetoric, these enthusiasms come down to the convenience of simply popping onto a train whenever they like.

That enthusiasm gets spurious support from a downright fraudulent tool on the "BritRail" (ie "FrenchAmericanRail") website that claims to compare the cost of its pass with buying individual tickets. And more, even phonier, support, from people churning out downright nonsense like "there are deep discounts online if you want to book far in advance and have non-changebale (sic) non-refundable tickets".

Trains aren't necessarily the easiest or cheapest way of getting round Britain, particularly if you want to visit London and Scotland, trains don't necessarily take you everywhere you want to go, and it's very, very unusual for a BritRail pass to cost less than buying tickets trip by trip. Between southern England and Scotland, planes are almost always cheaper and faster.

BritRail doesn't cover most transport within London.

It's probably best to start by roughing out an overall itinerary, then cost the WHOLE of your travel, London travel and site entrance costs. For those over 59, all off-peak train fares (but not the BritRail pass) are automatically reduced 33% if you buy a Senior Railcard (£24): this card also reduces the maximum you can be charged for travel within London if you link it to your Oystercard. Most rail journeys less than 100 miles each way don't require advance booking to get discounts: off-peak (= usually: starts after 9-ish) fares are up to 50% lower than those quoted on the BritRail too - and then fall a further 33% with a Senior Railcard. As long as you're travelling offpeak, all these fares are fully flexible and refundable. The National Rail website lets you see the effect of these deals: plug in dummy travel dates more than 6, but less than 10, weeks away to see the effect of advance booking - which does offer substantial benefits on longer journeys, but is rarely worth wasting energy on for shorter ones.

To add to the fun, the Megatrain website also offers near-free (but inflexible and non-refundable) fares on many lines.

Possibly most important of all for many people: BritRail doesn't qualify you for the 2 for 1 Days Out deals, which offer people with a current real railway ticket (or paper London Travelcard) 2 for 1 entry to many major paid-for sites, like the Tower of London.

There's no simple way of costing all this: you need to do the maths yourself. That can be daunting - and for many travellers, the few hundred pounds saved over a week or two by fine-tuning all this may not be worth the effort it can take if you're starting from scratch.

Flanner gives his advice in his usual Flannerian way, but he talks a lot of sense.


The senior rail-card is very good value. Mine has paid for itself several times over.
When you buy your Oyster in London, ask the clerk to load it on for you.
It is certainly a good idea to try to travel off-peak because it can make a great difference in price.
The Senior railcard site is http://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/
You can buy your card from a staffed ticket office when you arrive.
http://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/buy...-your-railcard

Scroll down to print out the order form.
I see that the Senior Railcard site also has a journey planner.

In any case in Britain on long-distance trains most tourists take, say up to Scotland, there is a HUGE difference IME between first and second class - first class on British trains is amongst the finest in Europe - you even get complimentary tea or coffee and snacks the whole way (take Vrigin trains and you get a veritable full meal plus snacks and beverages the whole way - but only in first class. The main thing about first class IME is that the seats are much much bigger than in second class and that they are often half emtpy - second class is often the contrary. So for the casual tourist taking a trip of a lifetime IMO the extra money for first class, be it a pass or regular tickets with or without the senior card, etc. is well worth the price. Just storing luggage is a huge difference - I always have an empty seat nearby to stow it on - in 2nd class you have to fend for space in overhead racks, etc.

All in all 2nd class on British trains IME and IMO are amongst the worst in terms of comfort in Europe - more like a Greyhound bus and first class the best - kind of refelcting the stereotype of British classism perhaps.

As a senior I have visited Britain many times and allways use a Brit rain pass purchased here in the States. The pass works for me as I travel most days of my holiday often without specific plans as to when I want to show up for a train. At times I like to break a trip like going from London to Edinburgh. I can and do get off, say York or Durham. I really don't care to save or go through the hassle of being stuck to a specific train. It's a lot different for the locals as they are there and can make specific plans. For us occasional visiters felxibility is the key.

Now if all you are doing are side trips from London, a pass wpould not be the way to go.

Thanks for the replies. I checked out the visitbritainshop.com website and if we start in London and then travel to Scotland etc it sounds like the GB consecutive pass for tourists only might be the way to go. We can get the 8 day senior first class pass for $459. If I am reading it right it is unlimited travel within the 8 days so we could basically spend a day or two along the way. rogerdodger is that the pass you get? The difference between first and second class is only $60 and PalenQ certainly feels the difference is well worth it. MisPrism the senior rail card sounds like it just offers discounts but I would have to check the fares to each destination to see if it was worth it wouldn't I. Any comments on this plan?

If the difference between first and second class is only $60, I might go for it but be aware that a number of trains, at least in Scotland, only have one class. I've used a flexible rail pass mostly for the convenience even when it would probably have been cheaper to buy individual tickets.

Traveller69. Yes I use the 8 day consecutive pass each time I go. Just remember, as the name implies, if you don't use it on a day it still counts as a day of use. But like I said, I'm on the road a lot, as I just enjoy the trains.

If you don't plan on travelling on consecutive days, have a look at the Flexi-Pass.

And more, even phonier, support, from people churning out downright nonsense like "there are deep discounts online if you want to book far in advance and have non-changebale (sic) non-refundable tickets>

So correct me - if I want to get one of those ballyhooed say 19 quid London to Edinburgh tickets I do not have to book far in advance - and that those tickets are changeable and refundable? Those are the deep discount tickets I were talking about. How soon should i book online to be guaranteed a 19 pound fare? Is two days in advance enough?

Most rail journeys less than 100 miles each way don't require advance booking to get discounts: off-peak (= usually: starts after 9-ish) fares are up to 50% lower than those quoted on the BritRail too - and then fall a further 33% with a Senior Railcard. As long as you're travelling offpeak, all these fares are fully flexible and refundable.>

Yet the typical American traveler say goes London to York
York to Edinburgh

Edinburgh to Bath

Bath to London

so on trips more than 100 miles - if they were not then the whole equation on a pass is different - you would not even want a BritRail Pass but perhaps a BritEngland Pass or a Days Out of London Pass (but only if you were taking several train rides perhaps) - and those day return discounts can still be pricey IMO

Hi Traveller69

Well, the BritRail Pass is a good option. But it will all depend on what you want to do. Sometimes the amount rail travel you do will let you know if a BritRail Pass will benefit you.

I would advise that you jot down the number of cities you would like to travel to. Then calculate the cost of tickets (not BritRail tickets. But what you would pay if you were a local). You can look this up at www.thetrainline.com

Then you can compare these prices to the BritRail Pass. This should give you a good idea of cost.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Seniors - even Americans - can use the Senior Citizen's Railcard which gives a one-third discount

www.senior-railcard.co.uk/

The Party Pass can be a real bargain for folks traveling with other couples or large families, etc.

The first two adults pays full price for the pass and the 3rd thru 9th persons also using the same pass (need not be related) oay just 50% of what the first two pay.

So currently a 3-day British Rail Flexipass (good for 3 days of unlimited rail travel over a 2-month period( for a party of 4 would cost, currently $687 total in standard class or about $172 p.p. or $57 per day - in British pounds about 35 pounds a day - to travel anywhere in Britain - London to Scotland or to Wales or anywhere - and this lets you just hop on any train anytime - 35 pounds a day on the party pass.

and if traveling Nov-end of Feb take 20% off that for 'Off_peak promo' for about 28 pounds a day for totally flexible travel.

Now can anyone say 28 pounds a day for unlimited rail travel anywhere in Britain is a rip-off? And 35 pounds to say Scotland from London may be cheaper than the highly restricted often online advance discounts.

And again for totally flexible travel - if that is a key to you as moi - then an absolute bargain IMO.

Before believing some Brit Fodorites that BritRail passes are always a waste of money do your own research at sites such as www.nationalrail.co.uk where all the muyriad of fares are displayed along with the conditions of travel.

Then calculate the cost of tickets (not BritRail tickets. But what you would pay if you were a local>

Yes indeedy - pay no attention to point to point fares listed at www.britrail.com as these are full fares - fully flexible fares and even for those higher IME than at the station. Britrail.com does not list any discounted fares but fully flexible use at will fares and as Chris says or hints at fares locals pay are much cheaper than the fares displayed at britrail.com