Maudie

Hmmm glad I'm not typical then!

nytraveler

Almost any beach in europe will be a big disappointment after Australia. Most are pebbles - if not rocks - they are narrow, are on flat seas with itsy bitsy waves a couple of inches high - and IMHO don;t even get the near the class of good beaches in OZ - or the US or the Carib.

IMHO doesn't make any sense to fly all the way to europe to see a third-rate beach. I would focus on what is different about europe that you can't see everyplace else - whatever thing those are that interest you the most.

In the very limited time you have (7.5 days) I wold do at most 2 cities (hotels) that are near each other - no more than 3 or 4 hours by train. And definitely fly open jaws - into the first city and out of the second one.

Libretto2

"We love Oz and most of its people, but even if you don't, the typical Aussie traveler travels as I described."...just how do you know this Big Russ? Based on...?


Emma, it's a very tiring trip as you know. Door to door it might be as much as 36 hours from Melbourne, so you will need a day to recover even if you are young and fit. You also need to calculate the time spent at airports and getting into Paris. CDG can be a stinker of an airport and never speedy, so calculate that into your expected arrival time. 4 nights in Paris, is far too short in my view, but if that's what you want, I think limiting yourself to just one other destination is the only really viable option for such a short trip.

I'm puzzled though why you think the beaches in France or Spain are worth some of your very, very limited time in Europe. As someone said, up thread, most beaches are pathetic compared to ours; even over rated Melbourne beaches like Elwood or St Kilda are better than most Spanish beaches.

I think some more research might help you chose another destination. Read some guidebooks, blogs or check Fodor's threads. If it were me I'd go back to Amsterdam in a heart beat, but it's not for everyone and you really need to drill down and assess what makes another city destination appealing to you.

(As an aside, I loathed Qatar Air and Doha airport. Food was even more awful than most airline food. The service on all four flights was really arrogant, and rude. Doha airport is being rebuilt - and it desperately needs it.We were bussed out to the plane on the tarmac in broiling 45 degree heat, and had to climb a very steep stairway to enter the plane.It was a bus ride of over 40 minutes, the longest I've been on- recent reviews say this has not changed in the year since I flew via Doha.

Be aware that announcements are hard to hear, the terminus is always very crowded and noisy and staffing levels seemed low, so there were many people complaining they had not heard the transit announcements. A friend recently traveled through and said this is still a major problem.Queues are also very long, and staff seemed overwhelmed, and it showed.Toilets were filthy on each trip. Sadly, if you Google recent airport reviews most tell the same sorry story.

Qatar are VERY heavily marketing their Australian to Europe deals in an effort to beat their rivals, but I've have to say I will never fly with them again, even at their cheaper prices! )

rhon

I agree that with such a short time you could forget about the beach. We are Australian and do not go to France to sit on the beach when there is so much more to do. Although we are obviously not typical Aussies as we are going to France for ten weeks this year!!! with several two week stays.

camileaos

I also agree with a couple of other posts in saying that if you don't see going to Europe again anytime soon, I would squeeze in another country. Especially since architecture, museum, churches, etc, are note your main interest. After all, Paris and a lot of other cities are big in these elements.
I would also ditch the riviera... With so much to do and see, this is probably not where you want to waste your precious time. Between Italy and Spain, I would go to Italy. Lastly, consider traveling from one country to the other via train instead of flying from one place to another, which would cut out valuable time for visiting. You can catch an overnight train, save on time and money, as you wouldn't need to spend on hotel.

janisj

>>"...just how do you know this Big Russ? Based on...?<<

Oh , several hundred threads on fodors in the last 15 years. Not everyone of course, but that is the MO of a lot of Aussies, until we knock them around about a bit

EmmaWilliams84

Thank you for all your replies. So helpful and much to think about.

We definitely want to do 2 cities. Our friends with similar demographics (late 20's, married couple, just wanting to maximise time & be immersed as much as we can in the culture and take it all in) think that 3-4nights in Paris will suit us for our short trip.

So which two cities? How would you spend your time, with a total of 10 days flying from Australia and need to be back in Australia on the 10th day? Also With Paris being a Must? Flying, train, where, when, how?

Thank you again!

EmmaWilliams84

Also, point agreed and taken with the beach.... No beach will EVER compare to Aitutaki, Cook Islands
Ok so scrap that one

kja

"So which two cities?"

I believe I already gave my recommendations for this option.

cathies

If paris is a given, then you can work out a 2nd city. Read some guide books, or look here on the destination tab for inspiration. We loved London and for your first destination it's not a bad idea to fly into an English speaking city,

I know I suggested it previously, but flying into London, train to Paris and fly home from Paris isn't a bad itinerary. There are so many iconic things to see in London that you'll easily fill your few days there.

janisj

IMO the second city almost doesn't matter - pick one. You can fly or take a train from Paris to almost any city in Europe . . . London, Venice, Barcelona, Rome, Munich, Edinburgh, Amsterdam, Florence, .. . Anywhere.

So get a good guidebook or two and pick a city that look fabulous to,you . ..

SaffyRose

As another Australian I would also suggest a maximum of 2 cities.As Paris is a must I would look at London or Amsterdam as my second choice, both are easily and quickly reached by fast train. Having said that, if it was me I would spend the whole time in Paris - there is so much to see and do and plenty of interesting places to visit outside of the city centre.

EmmaWilliams84

My husband & I don't want to stay in Paris the whole time, even though I can see the practicality of that. But as we have three small children under 5, who'll be at home, financially we won't be able to return to Europe for manyyyy years.

Additionally would love to know where is the best area to stay in for Paris? For location, cost, immerse in culture, nice places to eat?

This may be naive, forgive me, but in Paris our plans were to simply go to the Eiffel Tower for Dinner and The Lourve and the rest of time walk around and experience the city, possibly few train trips?

Also, if we were to go to Barcelona from Paris, knowing we're on tight time frame would you suggest overnight train or day train or fly?

Any suggestions for Barcelona, what to do, where to stay? Again same style as in Paris.

Thanking everyone again for your help for this novice.






.

jamikins

I would suggest picking up a guide book on each city so you know what you can see. There is so much more to Paris than the Eiffel Tower and with such a short amount of time I wouldn't do day trips! The more time you spend in trains the less time you have actually seeing stuff and enjoying the place you flew across the world to see! You will still see a tonne of stuff in Paris so no need to spread yourself thin trying to 'see' more by day tripping.

As for where to stay, I highly recommend doing a search here for 'Paris hotels' above as there are hundreds of threads already about this for all budgets and then you won't have to wait for replies. I would look for a place in the 4-6 arrondissements myself.

Haven't been to Barcelona yet but a search above will likely help you out there as well

Happy planning!

Sue_xx_yy

Hi again Emma.

When I visited your country two years ago, a priority of mine was to see a kangaroo and a koala - in the wild, not a zoo. As you live there you will of course know that there is more to Oz than this, but that was a 'mental image' of Oz that I just had to check out for myself. Especially since like you, I had very little time - just 9 nights and 8 days. That is why I suggested in my first post that you think about your favourite images of your destinations - and don't worry if they're popular, signature images. There are reasons why icons become, well, icons - such as the Eiffel tower you mention. Just remember that Paris and other European cities, like your Australian cities of Sydney and Melbourne - are large; it helps to organize your sightseeing so that you're not trying to cross back and forth across the city every day. Travel guides have already worked this out, so that is why perusing one is so useful.

As it seems you are struggling a bit, may I suggest it is easier to start with practicalities and work your way in.

You must first decide how much time (and possibly money) you want to spend commuting between Paris and your second centre. It is nice that Qatar will offer an 'open jaw' to Paris, out of Barcelona, for a price you find reasonable, but not if you don't really, really want to see Barcelona, because it's going to take you over 6 hours by train to get there from Paris, even by TGV (Tres Grand Vitesse, or in English, very high speed train.) Cost will vary depending on how far in advance you book ticket - anywhere from around 80 euro each to over 125 euro each.

If you stick to travel by train, and put a maximum time of oh, say, 5 hours (so that you can easily finish the journey in a day) then this rules out Venice, unless you're willing to spend over 11 hours on the train or make the trek to the airport, check in, wait, board, fly, get bags.... Part of the reason I suggested Amsterdam is that while only Venice looks like Venice, Amsterdam is also a city of canals and bridges, and also a place where you can see great art - but a little closer to hand, more doable as a train journey.

You see the problem. Travel is a very personal thing, only you can ultimately know what is right for you.

Sue_xx_yy

I would add, though, that you have one thing going for you, and that is you are young. You can push yourself in your twenties in a way - alas! that you won't be able to do later in life should you return, so if Barcelona (or Venice) is a heartfelt dream for you to do, then by all means go, long commute or no.

Gretchen

Please plan on more than the Tower and the Louvre. You will be captivated just walking around in Paris WHILE you see the sites/sights. I also disagree with getting an apartment for the first visit (or many after). You will have a hotel desk to help you with reservations and directions. You can still quite "immerse" yourself--as much as tourists ever do. Don't stop being a tourist!!
If you are going to have dinner at the Eiffel Tower, make reservations months in advance. I personally think lunch is nicer (and have done it) because you can actually see the city, and the cost is half for a wonderful meal.
As said, just choose another city and go. NOT Switzerland--expensive and boring. Beautiful.
Venice is an intriguing city for many reasons.
No beaches.
As for Big Russ's remark, Janis nailed it--countless threads by Aussies and Indian folk to see 4 places in 8 days or whatever!! It is breathtaking because they actually think it can be done!!

Grindeldoo

Hi Emma - I personally don't think you're pushing it, wanting to visit two European cities. To me, picking one more northerly (Paris) and one more southerly (Barcelona or Venice) makes sense, as you will experience greater differences than you would get spending all your time in one or two northern cities. When I was your age and working in Sydney for a few years I found that long haul flights flying with the sun rather than against it, far less tiring than flying eastwards. So I don't think you'll be too wiped out when you arrive.

It's true that lunch at the top of the Eiffel Tower is wonderful - you get a better view and pay half the price you pay for dinner. Pricey of course, but well worth it. I met up with friends there two years ago to celebrate a birthday (not mine): food and wine fantastic, and the staff were charming (which is not something you can say very often about staff in pricier Paris restaurants).

Given that your preferences don't run totally in a cultural direction, Barcelona might be a better bet than Venice (apart from anything else, it's better situated for long-haul flights). It's a great city for walking around, has not just the ancient, but also the very modern, and to my mind, this helps make the city so interesting. It also has great food and wine. And 11 September is Catalunya's national day, so there could be a fair bit of partying going on. If you get desperate for the beach, you can always spend less than an hour on a train to get to a resort like Sitges, and then explore a smaller place!

Going by train is a great way to see a bit more of the country/countries you are travelling through and not having to waste time getting to and from airports certainly reduces the time difference between flying and going by train.

Whatever you decide to do, have a fantastic 30th and a fantastic holiday. Visiting a different continent for the first time is always amazing.

socaltraveler

I can fully appreciate both your desire to see more than one place in a short trip to Europe, given the distance, $$$, and a young family at home. It will be a lovely escape for you, and someday you will return. On our first trip to Europe together, DH's first, we had all of 9 days, and had also left 3 kids at home, a bit older than yours. He really wanted to see 2 places, so we went to Amsterdam and Paris, took the train between, flew home from Paris. It was a great trip. We also did a day trip from each city, and got a sense of countryside.

So yes, if Qatar will let you do an open-jaw, do it. And enjoy the wandering. You are young, you will return. Happy Birthday.

DeborahAnn

Emma, our favorite hotel that is easy on most budgets and in a good location near Notre Dame and Place Saint Michel in the 5th is Hotel College de France. You are close to the RER/Metro stop for convenience to Tour Eiffel as well as the train from the airport. It's perfect for those romantic walks along the Seine. There are some of the oldest and narrowest streets in Paris in this area and for someone seeking nightlife plenty to be found, although its very crazy touristy at times but fun all the same. http://www.hotel-collegedefrance.com/

Barcelona has a hop on hop off bus that will get you to many of the sights a first time tourist would want to see. Barcelona has an appealing upbeat vibrancy both day and night, IMO Have a great trip, Deborah