I posted the following on my previous post about my 5 week trip to Europe. I spent so much time on it, I though I would share with those who might not be interested in the other issues I have written about. I'm not sure that there is anything new here but. . . . .




I don't know that my advice on inexpensive travel will be good advice for others. I realize that our needs and tastes differ and that the word "inexpensive" means different things to different people. I remember the Fodorite who was agonizing over which $1000 per night hotel in Paris to choose. She had narrowed her list to 5. I thought, "Wow! She lives in a different travel world than I do." But anyway, here are my suggestions.

1. Don't buy food or drink at the Paris CDG airport. Or any airport, for that matter. I had a 4 hour layover there two days ago and I really wanted a coke. They wanted close to 4 Euro ($6)for a small bottle. I discovered that I didn't need it that badly.

But there are larger issue here:

One is that if you take all of your habits and needs with you to Europe, they will cost you. Do you really need Coke? Do you need a spacious hotel room? Do you need a big, comfy rental car?

Another issue is that if you anticipate your needs (like mine for a Diet Coke), you can save money. For example, the morning I left Europe (with connections at CDG) I was in Zagreb, Croatia. Coke at the market down the street from my hotel was cheap (about $1 for the same bottle that CDG wanted $6 for). I should have planned ahead, as I try to do. I should have also bought a small loaf of bread. That would have been cheaper than the $8 sandwich I was lusting after in CDG. I fought off my hunger with a Twix Candy Bar.

2. Buy snacks and drinks in neighborhood markets. Because one of my favorite things is to drink a beer or two when I travel, I avoid buying beer at a restaurant or bar. I would typically pay less than $1 for a .5 l bottle of beer. Granted, I often had to drink it at room temperature but my beer loving friend has taught me that many beers taste better this way anyway. As far as beer is concerned, it is also generally much cheaper to drink local brands than it is to drink Budweiser or Heineken. Addicted to Busch Lite? Good luck! no amount of money will buy you one of these in Europe. But my beer loving friend tells me that’s a good thing.

3. Don't be afraid to ask how much something costs. Always. And don't be too ready to make assumptions about the fact that something should be cheap. Example: Every day I typically bought a banana for my morning snack. Bananas are good because you don't have to be concerned about washing them, they travel pretty well and they are good for you.

On my morning outing in Dubrovnik, I went to the outdoor market, picked up a banana and the vendor looked at me and said 5 Kuna. That's about $1.25. I smiled and put the banana back on the pile and walked away. At another vendor in the same market, I asked the price and I got a banana for $.50. Am I cheap? Am I making too much out of $.75? If I paid $.75 a day more than I needed to every day over the 35 days of my trip, I would have spend an extra $26.25. And that's about 25 bottles of great, room temperature Croatian (or Italian) beer!

As part of the point about asking, I like to buy at places that post their prices. I've learned that there are many different prices for the same thing in some stores and restaurants. In fact, I avoid touristy places that don't post prices because I think they size you up and charge you what they think you can afford. Maybe that's socialism at its best. But I don't like it.

3. Establish thresholds. Before I buy something, I ask, "What's it worth to me?" Example: In Rome my friend and I decided we wanted a pasta meal. I had enough experience to know that we should be able to find something for 7 Euro in the neighborhood we were in. And we did - but we had to look at menus in three restaurants before we found something in our range. I do the same thing when I go looking for my morning coffee or my gelato or even my bananas and beer. And I will admit that there are times when I pay whatever it costs. Except $6 for a coke (my threshold was 2 Euro). Incidentally, I usually try to find neighborhood coffee bars and neighborhood restaurants, rather than the ones that cater to tourists.

4. Sleep cheaply. My threshold for a room this summer was 60 Euro per night. With the weak US dollar, this was hard to accomplish. How did I find cheap places that were also clean and comfortable? I used 5 resources: Rick Steves (please resist responding, Rick Steves haters), Lonely Planet Travel Guides, Rough Guides, Venere.com and Hostelbookers.com.

The last resource may seem unlikely. I am 54 years old, don’t really like socializing that much when I travel, and I don’t like sharing sleeping space with strangers. In other words, I am not a hostel type of person. But it was on hostelbookers.com that I found Il Palazzetto south of Siena - for $100 per night. I am sad to say that the same place wants twice as much per night for next summer. I guess I got lucky this year.

I have used Rick Steves’ suggestions both times I’ve stayed in Dubrovnik and he has been right. I have also found Rough Guides to be very accurate in their descriptions. Prices are usually not posted (or accurate) in guide books so after finding places I think I would like, I find their web site or send email to inquire about price.

An important feature of finding good but inexpensive accommodations is to plan ahead. I booked one of Jadranka Benussi’s rooms more than a year ahead of my trip this summer. I figured that there were a lot of others who read Rick Steves.

I should admit that I ended up paying 100 Euro for several places we stayed in this summer but each of these either included breakfast or had a small kitchen (or both). Thus we could compensate for the higher cost by preparing a meal or two from food bought at markets.

5. Travel with people who have similar tastes or incomes. My wife and my high school buddy qualify on this point. I traveled to Hawaii in March with a family member who makes about 10 times more per year than I do. And while he isn’t pretentious or careless, we ate at much more expensive restaurants than my wife and I might have. For him, money was no object. My youngest son and his girlfriend were with us and she bought a drink at one of these restaurants that cost me $18! But the price included a back scratcher. So how can I complain?

There you have it. I suspect that some will read this and think that I am a cheapskate. But I don’t think I am. I would describe myself as a person who likes good food and good experiences but who is also value conscious.

Good tips for the beginner folks.

Great tips, but there's 6 of them. 2 #3's

dgassa: Darn! I actually have real problems with numbers and dates. Maybe I can blame this on my computer?

Well, really your first and second are an elaboration on the same basic point, so your list can still be considered 5 rules! Thanks for taking the time. You're right about lodging and food being variable and somewhat under the control of the individual traveler.

Great tips! Thanks.

While I think most veteran travelers will be familiar with your tips, it's a good guide for those new to European travel.

Great post but I hasten to add: it is a VACATION. It may never HAPPEN again. Don't "sacrifice" unless you absolutely have to.

Shep - love your tips and your way of traveling. Count me in the same club. My wife and I also spend a lot of time trying to save maybe $20-$30 a night on accomodations even if it means a shower and no bath, or no fridge or maybe even using a toilet down the hall. Mutiply that $30 a night by 2 weeks and that's the cost of our rental vehicle for the same amount of time.

I wish Fodors would set up a special forum just for us cheapaholics. I have taken far too many hits here for proclaiming the lengths I'm willing to go to save a few bucks.

Dukey

I agree. In fact, there were several times when my wife and I got a little frustrated looking for a reasonably priced meal. She would say, "You know, together we do earn a very good living." That was her way of saying "Let's just find a restaurant and enjoy ourselves." And we would.

bookmarking

We used your tips and more in '06. We spent a little under $150 a day, not including airfare and the cost of leasing a car. We are going again in '09 and we're figuering it's gonna cost about $200 a day this time. You can read about how we did it in our trip report here:

http://tinyurl.com/24vmde

sshephard,
We are in the same club as you. I don't think it's being cheap, it's a choice to spend money wisely and in the way that makes you happy. Just like when I'm at home, I don't buy clothes unless they are 50% off. It doesn't mean I buy cheap clothes, just clothes at 50% off. I can afford to buy full price and travel in a higher bracket but CHOOSE not too. I read a post that said" a really good hotel room is important to us". I'm thinking, when I travel, I'm not in the hotel room except to sleep. I just want it clean. I wonder, what do people do...stay in their room all day? I prefer mom and pop food places off the tourist tracks. I think it gives you a better idea on how people really live in that country. We always hit a store and buy the local wine,beer,liquor and drink before we go out in the evening. We even travel with our oun nuts from home. We package them in those seal a meal things. When we get to the airport before going on the trip, we bring our lunch and eat before going through security. We travel with friends and it ends up being a fun lunch, or breakfast. It's also fun to sit in parks and eat fresh bread, great cheese, and drink a bottle of the local wine.
Thanks for your posting. Happy wise traveling!

As someone who lives in Europe, I am always amazed to hear people complain about the costs of a Coke when they talk about how expensive Europe is. There are other things to drink here.

As the original poster comments, if you bring all your habits and needs with you, you may end up spending more, and not experiencing the place you travelled to visit.

Another thing that is not always evident to travellers is how location-dependent prices are. Airports are the prime example - they've got you and you don't have many options. But cafes and restaurants near tourist attractions are almost always more expensive than those a few blocks away. And most of Paris is more expensive than the county.

One of our most memorable experiences took place in France, before we were able to move here. We were in the neighbouring village, where there was a 'piano bar' with a great jazz pianist. We had one beer each, listened to the entertainment, and then had a coffee - mainly because we felt guilty occupying the space for the whole evening for all of about 10 Francs, at the time.

The next day we took the train to Paris, it was hot, and the first thing we did was to go across the street from our hotel and have a beer - many times the price of our whole evening's entertainment the night before.

So someone who had been at the piano bar the night before would have said that France was really cheap. Anyone having a beer near our hotel (and the Musee d'Orsay) would have said it was really expensive.

When you are traveling on a budget I find you just need to spend extra time in the planning stages,before you go. It sometimes makes for a drag but I will kick myself in the end if I spent an extra $50 or so, when I didn't need to, had I been prepared.

Planning a big trip now to London, and feel a bit overwhelmed, especially with transportation (have posted a new question about that in fact), as there are so many variables. Told a good friend who does not have to budget, of my woes and worries, and she replied.."What's to plan? You go to the Tower, to the Eye, you see Bath, Windsor, ride in Hyde Park, etc.. How hard is London to plan? Everything is interesting"

But when you are on a budget, it is different. Everything is interesting but I can't come home so over-budget, having lost myself in the romance of travel, to find I can't pay the bills at the end of the month. I try to save a pound here and there, and it all adds up in the end to a big savings.

The tips I find here are invaluable. So thanks for yours.

Good tips for people wanting to travel on a budge t- or even those who don;t want to - but prefer not to waste on certain things.

One real key is:

Make no assumptions - just becaue something is cheap or expensive in the US doesn;t follow it will be the saem in europe. Soda in the US comes in gigantic, often free refill containers practically free. In most places in euorp one tiny can is 3 euros or so. And vice versa with local beer or wine - if you want the local beer or basic table wine it will often be less than soft drinks.

As for your rhetorical questions - yes, we want large, comfy hotel rooms with sofas, multi-channel cable TV/movies in a nice, centrally located hotel with 24 hour services - and yes, we do like renting nice cars - since we both enjoy driving fast cars fast. But - these are decisions we've made up front in terms of how we want to vacation - since our time is very limited.

Other people, in other situations, make other choices.

The key is to think about it in advance - and make decisions that fit your needs and your budget - rather than being surprised.

Good tips, although I sometimes things aren't quite as straightforward. For example, yes, if you want to be sure of getting into a particular hotel, it will generally be cheaper if you book well ahead (tip #4). However if you're flexible about where you sleep, the opposite holds true. I turn up on the day, and always get better prices than I was offered by the same places months earlier when I looked into booking on the internet. The only thing is that some places you checked out earlier will be booked out - hence the need for flexibility!

We were 52 when we first tripped (backpacked!) Europe, and in several places stayed in YHA hostels. Most (not all) have rooms for couples as well as dormitory rooms. What we loved was the opportunity to swap travel tips with other like-minded (albeit younger) travellers.

When you say you don't like socialising when you travel, do you mean with other travellers or locals or both? I guess we don't mind it in the context just mentioned, although I certainly wouldn't want the constant exposure that might come with being in an organised/escorted tour group. Locals is another matter, however - it's part of why we travel. Which again is why we don't do organised tours - the dynamics is that you would pretty much always be socialising in the group, whereas when we travel independently we're much more likely to strike up a conversation wirth locals. (The lack of a language in common being no barrier). It's all part of the fun and the experience.

twoflower my kind of traveler
P.S. did I meet you several years ago on Lonely planet and you sent me a postcard because I wanted the stamp?

twoflower

I realize that advanced booking can cost you more. The best deal of my trip this summer was in the little cove we stayed in on Hvar. Two days prior to this, we didn't even know we would be on the island of Hvar - it was pure serendipity. Clearly, we hadn't booked in advance

The reason I book most places so far ahead is that I want to get the best possible location for the best price. In Dubrovnik in late June I'm not sure this could happen on the day I arrived. In fact, the sobe I stayed at there was booked into next summer already.

We talked to a couple last summer in Croatia who rented a car and just went driving and found places as they went. Now that I have driven in Dubrovnik I think I could do that. And I know I would save money.

As for the social aspect. . . I am certainly not against meeting locals. Or even my fellow English speaking Americans.

But I am in most ways an introvert and that no doubt has influence on my attitude about socializing and about hostels.

I have met many hostelers - mostly young but some my age - and it seems that a big part of the backpacking/hosteling experience is meeting other travelers and making new friends. But that is not why I travel. But that's just me and I wouldn't expect others to be like me in this regard. Frankly, if I didn't mind sleeping in dormitory settings, I could save alot of money.

Thanks for the tips sshephard!

It's not necessarily being "cheap" as I like many "nice" things. It's really about being frugal. How can I introduce 3 kids on a part-time budget to Europe? Being frugal, that's how. Stretching our money as far as it will go ensures us the opportunity to visit again!

A lot of times, the free exhibits are the best kind. My photos are 1,000 times better and worth more than a souvenir. And we don't have to eat at a fancy restaurant to have exposure to other cultures. Like you mentioned, picking up food at a local market and having a picnic on a bench or grassy area while locals and tourists walk by is all the exposure we need. Some of the best attractions in Europe do not require long lines or an admission ticket. It just takes research.

Unfortunately for us, we travel in a large group so the hostels and singles are out. So we have to continuously look for other ways to save money. The other downside is the exchange rate. That hurts. But our will to explore and experience new things surpasses all else. We appreciate your post. Thanks again!