4 week European adventure. Advice?
#1
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Joined: Mar 2017
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4 week European adventure. Advice?
Hey travelers, my partner and I are from Texas and we are planning a 4 week journey through Europe for summer of 2019. This will be our first time in Europe, and we plan on packing as much as possible into our time there. We are young, fairly athletic, and willing to forgo sleep for once-in-a-lifetime adventures. Natural scenery, history, art, authentic food, music, and architecture are our interests. There are many places I'm looking forward to visiting, and I have a rough itinerary outlined. We're trying to do this on the cheap, not caring too much about fancy hotels or fine dining, except for maybe a splurge or two in Italy. We would love your advice on these places, opinions on the itinerary, suggestions, concerns, anything! Transportation is something I need a lot of guidance on! Trains, rental cars, short flights, ferries, etc. How much money should we save up? Is there anything "overrated" that we should leave out to allow more time for something else? Anything nearby that I haven't included and shouldn't miss? Thanks!
Our rough outline looks something like this. We're thinking June?
Day 1: Fly into Rome. Stay two nights.
Day 2: Rome. Obviously we'll want to do the Colosseum, the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, the major museums, etc.
Day 3: Tuscany. Stay in Asciano two nights.
Day 4: Asciano. Visit Siena and Val d'Orcia.
Day 5: Florence. Stay two nights.
Day 6: Florence. We'd love to see Pisa and possibly Parco Nazionale Arcipelago Toscano while we're in the area.
Day 7: North through Milan, Como, and Lugano. (Not planning on spending much time in these places, as they're going to be a central part of our next European trip.) Stay in Lucerne, Switzerland one night, or neighboring Sisikon which I've noticed is significantly cheaper and more quaint. Mount Pilatus is something I don't want to miss.
Day 8: Grindelwald, Switzerland two nights.
Day 9: Grindelwald. I want to check out Wengen, Oeschinensee, First cliffwalk, Wetterhorn, and Kandersteg.
Day 10: Braunwald, Switzerland two nights.
Day 11: Braunwald.
Day 12: Neuschwanstein Castle on the way to Innsbruck, Austria. We have a friend in Innsbruck and will stay the night with him.
Day 13: Val di Funes two nights. I'm thinking we'll stay in San Maddalena specifically?
Day 14: Val di Funes. Definitely want to see Lago di Braies.
Day 15: Venice 1 night. Maybe stop in Verona on the way.
Day 16: Venice in the morning/early afternoon, then on to Ljubljana for two nights.
Day 17: Ljubljana. Lake Bled, Lake Bohinj, Mt. Vogel. These are must-sees for us!
Day 18: Plitvice two nights.
Day 19: Plitvice.
Day 20: Sakarun Beach, Croatia 2 nights.
Day 21: Sakarun.
Day 22: Mostar, Bosnia. Krka and Kravice are must-sees.
Day 23: Dubrovnik, Croatia.
Day 24: Kotor, Montenegro.
Day 25: Zakynthos, Greece two nights. We really need to figure out the quickest/cheapest way to get here from Montenegro/Dubrovnik area.
Day 26: Zakynthos.
Day 27: Athens 1 night.
Day 28: Santorini 2 nights.
Day 29: Santorini.
Day 30: Istanbul 1 night. Hagia Sofia and Blue Mosque are the main things I want to see. (Cliché, I know.) From here we will fly back to Rome and onward to home. It's looking like it'll be cheaper to book a Rome round-trip and take a cheap Istanbul-Rome flight rather than a Dallas-Rome/Istanbul-Dallas trip.
Our rough outline looks something like this. We're thinking June?
Day 1: Fly into Rome. Stay two nights.
Day 2: Rome. Obviously we'll want to do the Colosseum, the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, the major museums, etc.
Day 3: Tuscany. Stay in Asciano two nights.
Day 4: Asciano. Visit Siena and Val d'Orcia.
Day 5: Florence. Stay two nights.
Day 6: Florence. We'd love to see Pisa and possibly Parco Nazionale Arcipelago Toscano while we're in the area.
Day 7: North through Milan, Como, and Lugano. (Not planning on spending much time in these places, as they're going to be a central part of our next European trip.) Stay in Lucerne, Switzerland one night, or neighboring Sisikon which I've noticed is significantly cheaper and more quaint. Mount Pilatus is something I don't want to miss.
Day 8: Grindelwald, Switzerland two nights.
Day 9: Grindelwald. I want to check out Wengen, Oeschinensee, First cliffwalk, Wetterhorn, and Kandersteg.
Day 10: Braunwald, Switzerland two nights.
Day 11: Braunwald.
Day 12: Neuschwanstein Castle on the way to Innsbruck, Austria. We have a friend in Innsbruck and will stay the night with him.
Day 13: Val di Funes two nights. I'm thinking we'll stay in San Maddalena specifically?
Day 14: Val di Funes. Definitely want to see Lago di Braies.
Day 15: Venice 1 night. Maybe stop in Verona on the way.
Day 16: Venice in the morning/early afternoon, then on to Ljubljana for two nights.
Day 17: Ljubljana. Lake Bled, Lake Bohinj, Mt. Vogel. These are must-sees for us!
Day 18: Plitvice two nights.
Day 19: Plitvice.
Day 20: Sakarun Beach, Croatia 2 nights.
Day 21: Sakarun.
Day 22: Mostar, Bosnia. Krka and Kravice are must-sees.
Day 23: Dubrovnik, Croatia.
Day 24: Kotor, Montenegro.
Day 25: Zakynthos, Greece two nights. We really need to figure out the quickest/cheapest way to get here from Montenegro/Dubrovnik area.
Day 26: Zakynthos.
Day 27: Athens 1 night.
Day 28: Santorini 2 nights.
Day 29: Santorini.
Day 30: Istanbul 1 night. Hagia Sofia and Blue Mosque are the main things I want to see. (Cliché, I know.) From here we will fly back to Rome and onward to home. It's looking like it'll be cheaper to book a Rome round-trip and take a cheap Istanbul-Rome flight rather than a Dallas-Rome/Istanbul-Dallas trip.
#2
Joined: Jul 2013
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"Day 1: Fly into Rome. Stay two nights."
Day 2: Rome. Obviously we'll want to do the Colosseum, the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, the major museums, etc. "
Not going to happen, not enough time, count on seeing a fraction, so prioritize seriously.
Whenever you say "two nights" that's one day.
Luzern - you arrive from Italy and need to really hustle to get up on Pilatus that day, or the next day before moving on to Grindelwald.
It's a hasty schedule, likely to produce mostly blurs of "were we really there? What was it like?"
With so many relocations that always involve logistics - not just the travel time but time to find the new lodgings, public transport, etc. - you're pushing your luck.
For train possibilities read www.seat61.com and www.trenitalia.it (Italian train system), www.sbb.ch/en (Swiss trains), www.oebb.at (Austria's trains) just for starters.
Day 2: Rome. Obviously we'll want to do the Colosseum, the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, the major museums, etc. "
Not going to happen, not enough time, count on seeing a fraction, so prioritize seriously.
Whenever you say "two nights" that's one day.
Luzern - you arrive from Italy and need to really hustle to get up on Pilatus that day, or the next day before moving on to Grindelwald.
It's a hasty schedule, likely to produce mostly blurs of "were we really there? What was it like?"
With so many relocations that always involve logistics - not just the travel time but time to find the new lodgings, public transport, etc. - you're pushing your luck.
For train possibilities read www.seat61.com and www.trenitalia.it (Italian train system), www.sbb.ch/en (Swiss trains), www.oebb.at (Austria's trains) just for starters.
#6

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
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In addition to everything michelhuebli has said about this being a tremendously rushed schedule, it's going to be terribly expensive. Every time you move from one place to another, it costs money, and you're moving at the speed of light.
Get hold of a bunch of guidebooks, study maps, and learn about your transportation options (and their costs).
Get hold of a bunch of guidebooks, study maps, and learn about your transportation options (and their costs).
#7

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
I would start out by pinpointing what you want to see in each city. Then look up closing days etc. Plan to see about 2 major sites a day realistically. This will allow you to determine how much time you need in each place.
Remember 2 nights = 1 full day
Then look at how many nights you have and allocate them using the work you did above as a guide.
You will likely have to trim a lot of places.
But don't fall into the trap of thinking quantity is the way to see more. You will eat up approx 1/2 each time you move (checking out, getting to train station/airport, waiting for transit, in transit, repeating this on the other side. You don't want to spend all your hard earned time and money in transit for most of your trip. Spend the time experiencing the places you choose to visit by cutting back on locations and seeing more of the places you visit.
4 weeks is a long time, don't forget to factor in travel fatigue, clothes washing, and some down time. Otherwise you will just remember of blur.
Happy planning!
Remember 2 nights = 1 full day
Then look at how many nights you have and allocate them using the work you did above as a guide.
You will likely have to trim a lot of places.
But don't fall into the trap of thinking quantity is the way to see more. You will eat up approx 1/2 each time you move (checking out, getting to train station/airport, waiting for transit, in transit, repeating this on the other side. You don't want to spend all your hard earned time and money in transit for most of your trip. Spend the time experiencing the places you choose to visit by cutting back on locations and seeing more of the places you visit.
4 weeks is a long time, don't forget to factor in travel fatigue, clothes washing, and some down time. Otherwise you will just remember of blur.
Happy planning!
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#8
Joined: Oct 2015
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To have a general idea about transportation between those cities (Trains, rental cars, short flights, ferries, etc.), you may take a look at:
https://www.rome2rio.com/
Enter your departure city and your destination, the website will list ALL options of transportation possible for you, and the time it costs (also the average prices it costs, but don't rely on it). It's extremely helpful.
Agree with others that you have too many destinations. When you said "2 nights", it's actually 1 day plus intercity transportation time. I guarantee you, stay 3 nights in Rome and you still haven't seen half of the must-see in the Rome, not to mention the off-the-beaten paths. With the 2 nights you're planning in Rome, minus airport time and jetlag time, you can't even "see" Rome. Believe me, I'm young and fairly athletic too but some things just take time to be seen.
https://www.rome2rio.com/
Enter your departure city and your destination, the website will list ALL options of transportation possible for you, and the time it costs (also the average prices it costs, but don't rely on it). It's extremely helpful.
Agree with others that you have too many destinations. When you said "2 nights", it's actually 1 day plus intercity transportation time. I guarantee you, stay 3 nights in Rome and you still haven't seen half of the must-see in the Rome, not to mention the off-the-beaten paths. With the 2 nights you're planning in Rome, minus airport time and jetlag time, you can't even "see" Rome. Believe me, I'm young and fairly athletic too but some things just take time to be seen.
#9
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,331
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I count 19 places in 29 nights. That's 1.5 days per place WITHOUT counting transit time.
Transit time takes about 1/2 day to go from one town to the next assuming no delays like a rail strike. Each time you change cities you have to pack, check out, get to train station/airport, travel, find your new hotel, check in, and unpack.
That's going to leave you on average about ONE full sightseeing day for each place you visit. I don't know what you can get out of Rome in a day. You should cut half your destinations. Assume you will return to Europe and visit the other places at that time.
If this is going to be done "on the cheap" then eliminate Switzerland. It is by far the most expensive country in Europe. A recent Economist article ranked the 10 most expensive cities in the world. Switzerland had 7 of them.
Transit time takes about 1/2 day to go from one town to the next assuming no delays like a rail strike. Each time you change cities you have to pack, check out, get to train station/airport, travel, find your new hotel, check in, and unpack.
That's going to leave you on average about ONE full sightseeing day for each place you visit. I don't know what you can get out of Rome in a day. You should cut half your destinations. Assume you will return to Europe and visit the other places at that time.
If this is going to be done "on the cheap" then eliminate Switzerland. It is by far the most expensive country in Europe. A recent Economist article ranked the 10 most expensive cities in the world. Switzerland had 7 of them.
#10

Joined: Mar 2013
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The first week is somewhat feasible, although you don't allow enough time to cities like Rome or Florence.
Then it gets more and more crazy:
Parco dell' Arcipelago Toscano:
it's a big area. What do you plan to visit there: one of the 7 Islands (would take at least 3 days)? dive?
Switzerland:
travel from West to East (instead of zig zagging):
Florence - Kandersteg (5 hrs by train, for example Florence dp 16.00 - Kandersteg ar 21.12, change at Milan and Brig). Visit then Oeschinensee (hike or take the gondola) and proceed to Grindelwald.
Go then to Lucerne, by boat or train to Fluelen, by Postbus to Linthal and by rope railway to Braunwald.
Braunwald - Neuschwanstein - Innsbruck:
can hardly be done in 1 single day without a huge detour via Munich. Normal itinerary: Braunwald dp 7.25 - Neuschwanstein castles ar 14.13, dp 16.40 - Innsbruck ar 20.53
Dolomites:
Innsbruck - Santa Maddalena Val di Funes takes 2 1/2 hrs. But Pragser Wildsee/Lago Braies is 2 1/2 hrs by bus and train away.
Sta Maddalena - Venice takes about 6 hrs, change at Klausen, Bozen and Verona.
Slovenia:
The evening Flixbus from Venice to Ljubljana is not daily.
It might be easier to go directly from Lago Braies/Pragser Wildsee to Bled and to visit Venice between Florence and Kandersteg:
Venice dp 16.20 - Kandersteg ar 22.43, change at Brig
Lago Braies dp 14.31 - Lesce Bled ar 20.00, change at Innichen, Lienz and Villach
Croatia:
Ljubljana - Plitvice can take almost a full day.
Plitvice - Dugi Otok (Sakarun) is more complicated, however. There are only 3 daily ferries between Zadar an Dugi Otok and their timetables may not match with the few buses from Plitvice.
Day 22: if you visit the Krka Falls Park, you will end at Split, Mostar will be for the following day.
Montenegro - Zakynthos:
If you don't want to cross Albania and Epirus by bus (would take 4-5 days), you have to backtrack to Dubrovnik and then
either by ferry to Bari (change ferry) - Patras, by bus to Kyllini and by ferry to Zakynthos
or by plane from Dubrovnik to Athens (plane change) - Zakynthos.
There are furthermore a few not daily Brindisi - Zakynthos ferries in August only.
Santorini - Istanbul:
plane via Athens (change) or different ferries via either Rhodos - Marmaris or Naxos resp Mykonos - Samos - Kusadasi, plus domestic buses in Turkey.
Then it gets more and more crazy:
Parco dell' Arcipelago Toscano:
it's a big area. What do you plan to visit there: one of the 7 Islands (would take at least 3 days)? dive?
Switzerland:
travel from West to East (instead of zig zagging):
Florence - Kandersteg (5 hrs by train, for example Florence dp 16.00 - Kandersteg ar 21.12, change at Milan and Brig). Visit then Oeschinensee (hike or take the gondola) and proceed to Grindelwald.
Go then to Lucerne, by boat or train to Fluelen, by Postbus to Linthal and by rope railway to Braunwald.
Braunwald - Neuschwanstein - Innsbruck:
can hardly be done in 1 single day without a huge detour via Munich. Normal itinerary: Braunwald dp 7.25 - Neuschwanstein castles ar 14.13, dp 16.40 - Innsbruck ar 20.53
Dolomites:
Innsbruck - Santa Maddalena Val di Funes takes 2 1/2 hrs. But Pragser Wildsee/Lago Braies is 2 1/2 hrs by bus and train away.
Sta Maddalena - Venice takes about 6 hrs, change at Klausen, Bozen and Verona.
Slovenia:
The evening Flixbus from Venice to Ljubljana is not daily.
It might be easier to go directly from Lago Braies/Pragser Wildsee to Bled and to visit Venice between Florence and Kandersteg:
Venice dp 16.20 - Kandersteg ar 22.43, change at Brig
Lago Braies dp 14.31 - Lesce Bled ar 20.00, change at Innichen, Lienz and Villach
Croatia:
Ljubljana - Plitvice can take almost a full day.
Plitvice - Dugi Otok (Sakarun) is more complicated, however. There are only 3 daily ferries between Zadar an Dugi Otok and their timetables may not match with the few buses from Plitvice.
Day 22: if you visit the Krka Falls Park, you will end at Split, Mostar will be for the following day.
Montenegro - Zakynthos:
If you don't want to cross Albania and Epirus by bus (would take 4-5 days), you have to backtrack to Dubrovnik and then
either by ferry to Bari (change ferry) - Patras, by bus to Kyllini and by ferry to Zakynthos
or by plane from Dubrovnik to Athens (plane change) - Zakynthos.
There are furthermore a few not daily Brindisi - Zakynthos ferries in August only.
Santorini - Istanbul:
plane via Athens (change) or different ferries via either Rhodos - Marmaris or Naxos resp Mykonos - Samos - Kusadasi, plus domestic buses in Turkey.
#13
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
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I need a lot of guidance on! Trains, rental cars, short flights, ferries, etc.>
Ok for trains - great sources IMO - www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out their online European Planning & Rail Guide; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com. If traveling much of that by train look at various railpasses.
Ok for trains - great sources IMO - www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out their online European Planning & Rail Guide; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com. If traveling much of that by train look at various railpasses.
#14
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 98,222
Likes: 12
<<Day 2: Rome. Obviously we'll want to do the Colosseum, the Vatican, Trevi Fountain, the major museums, etc.>>
<Day 7: Milan, Como, and Lugano, Lucerne, or neighboring Sisikon, Mount Pilatus.>
Do you think you can do all of those things in a single day?
<Day 7: Milan, Como, and Lugano, Lucerne, or neighboring Sisikon, Mount Pilatus.>
Do you think you can do all of those things in a single day?
#15
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
I'll essentially just be repeating what others have said, but still: before you allocate time, look into travel options between all the places on your itinerary in terms of cost but especially in terms of transit time. Add a few hours on either end for packing/unpacking, getting from the station to the hotel, etc. Only then start planning what are you going to see, taking into account how long it will take you to get from one place to another. Also, don't think you can simply see more by starting earlier and finishing later in the day. Most sights will have some form of opening hours, even with some natural sights, you may find that you'll have to adhere to a schedule. For example, if you have to take a cable car, it probably won't be running late into the evening, etc.
To give you an idea of the part I'm most familiar with (although other areas are just as, if not more problematic):
"Day 17: Ljubljana. Lake Bled, Lake Bohinj, Mt. Vogel. These are must-sees for us!"
Day 17, your visit of Slovenia, is not simply rushed, it's impossible. If all four are must-sees for you, then plan three full days (four nights) or at the very least two full days (three nights), but even then you would have to combine Bled, Bohinj and Mt Vogel in one day, which, while at least doable, is unlikely to be a pleasant experience.
To give you an idea of the part I'm most familiar with (although other areas are just as, if not more problematic):
"Day 17: Ljubljana. Lake Bled, Lake Bohinj, Mt. Vogel. These are must-sees for us!"
Day 17, your visit of Slovenia, is not simply rushed, it's impossible. If all four are must-sees for you, then plan three full days (four nights) or at the very least two full days (three nights), but even then you would have to combine Bled, Bohinj and Mt Vogel in one day, which, while at least doable, is unlikely to be a pleasant experience.
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