3 weeks in Spain - please critique itinerary
Mar 14th, 2009, 11:49 AM
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3 weeks in Spain - please critique itinerary
Hello Fodorites,
I am planning a trip to Spain in May, and have been combing these forums for months, sucking up your wonderful first-hand information and advice. I've now booked my flights, and am somewhat nervously ready to post my tentative itinerary. I look forward to reaping the benefit of your wisdom and experience. Thanks in advance!
I'll be travelling with my husband. We're both mid-50s and interested in art, architecture and history, but also enjoy just sitting in sidewalk cafes, sipping coffee or wine and watching the locals. We like to be active, but when we travel to Europe our focus is not on hiking/biking/kayaking but on relaxing and enjoying. I'm the obsessive-compulsive one who does all the research, and I have to fight the tendency to squeeze in too much, whilst DH likes to take a more relaxed pace.
Our trip will be 21days/20nights, arriving and leaving from Madrid and concentrating on areas around Madrid and south. We'd love to "do it all" but it's a big country, and I've resisted the temptation. Here's our proposed itinerary:
May 10 (Sunday) - arrive MAD 11am. FIght jet-lag, relax in Retiro Park. (Sleep Madrid.)
May 11 - in Madrid (Sleep Madrid).
May 12 - in Madrid (Sleep Madrid).
May 13 - in Madrid until late afternoon, AVE train to Cordoba (Sleep Cordoba).
May 14 - early visit to Mezquita, wander Cordoba, pm train to Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 15 - in Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 16 - in Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 17 (Sunday) - rent car in Seville, drive to Arcos and possibly Jerez, arrive Cadiz in afternoon (sleep Cadiz).
May 18 - morning in Cadiz, leisurely drive along Atlantic beaches to Tarifa, then boot it to Cartajima by nightfall, where DD has booked us 3 nights in Los Castanos (Sleep Cartajima)
May 19 - relaxing day in Cartajima, hike to nearby white villages (sleep Cartajima)
May 20 - see Ronda, Grazalema (sleep Cartajima)
May 21 - morning drive to Nerja, beach day (sleep Nerja)
May 22 - relaxing morning in Nerja, drive to Granada (sleep Granada)
May 23 - morning visit to Alhambra (8:30am Nasrid Palace already booked) (Sleep Granada)
May 24 (Sunday) - long driving day to Toledo, with stops in Ubeda or Baeza (sleep Toledo)
May 25 - in Toledo (sleep Toledo)
May 26 - drive to Salamanca with 2-3hr stop in Avila for lunch and walls (Sleep Salamanca)
May 27 - in Salamanca
May 28- early departure and spend day in Segovia, drive to Madrid in evening (sleep near airport).
May 29 - flight leaves MAD at 12:40.
I know I will get feedback about all the driving, but we like to drive as it gives a better sense of the size and diversity of a country, as well as the independence to take side-trips and set our own pace. I will take Maribel's advice and book the Guadalupe Hotel in Granada for driving convenience, as well as any other suggestions I may receive for other towns. I still haven't decided about Toledo, as the Hostal del Cardenal sounds best for driving, but is a little pricey for our budget.
Now that I've broken the barriers, I will probably drive you crazy with questions, so thanks in advance for any suggestions and recommendations.
I am planning a trip to Spain in May, and have been combing these forums for months, sucking up your wonderful first-hand information and advice. I've now booked my flights, and am somewhat nervously ready to post my tentative itinerary. I look forward to reaping the benefit of your wisdom and experience. Thanks in advance!
I'll be travelling with my husband. We're both mid-50s and interested in art, architecture and history, but also enjoy just sitting in sidewalk cafes, sipping coffee or wine and watching the locals. We like to be active, but when we travel to Europe our focus is not on hiking/biking/kayaking but on relaxing and enjoying. I'm the obsessive-compulsive one who does all the research, and I have to fight the tendency to squeeze in too much, whilst DH likes to take a more relaxed pace.
Our trip will be 21days/20nights, arriving and leaving from Madrid and concentrating on areas around Madrid and south. We'd love to "do it all" but it's a big country, and I've resisted the temptation. Here's our proposed itinerary:
May 10 (Sunday) - arrive MAD 11am. FIght jet-lag, relax in Retiro Park. (Sleep Madrid.)
May 11 - in Madrid (Sleep Madrid).
May 12 - in Madrid (Sleep Madrid).
May 13 - in Madrid until late afternoon, AVE train to Cordoba (Sleep Cordoba).
May 14 - early visit to Mezquita, wander Cordoba, pm train to Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 15 - in Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 16 - in Seville (Sleep Seville).
May 17 (Sunday) - rent car in Seville, drive to Arcos and possibly Jerez, arrive Cadiz in afternoon (sleep Cadiz).
May 18 - morning in Cadiz, leisurely drive along Atlantic beaches to Tarifa, then boot it to Cartajima by nightfall, where DD has booked us 3 nights in Los Castanos (Sleep Cartajima)
May 19 - relaxing day in Cartajima, hike to nearby white villages (sleep Cartajima)
May 20 - see Ronda, Grazalema (sleep Cartajima)
May 21 - morning drive to Nerja, beach day (sleep Nerja)
May 22 - relaxing morning in Nerja, drive to Granada (sleep Granada)
May 23 - morning visit to Alhambra (8:30am Nasrid Palace already booked) (Sleep Granada)
May 24 (Sunday) - long driving day to Toledo, with stops in Ubeda or Baeza (sleep Toledo)
May 25 - in Toledo (sleep Toledo)
May 26 - drive to Salamanca with 2-3hr stop in Avila for lunch and walls (Sleep Salamanca)
May 27 - in Salamanca
May 28- early departure and spend day in Segovia, drive to Madrid in evening (sleep near airport).
May 29 - flight leaves MAD at 12:40.
I know I will get feedback about all the driving, but we like to drive as it gives a better sense of the size and diversity of a country, as well as the independence to take side-trips and set our own pace. I will take Maribel's advice and book the Guadalupe Hotel in Granada for driving convenience, as well as any other suggestions I may receive for other towns. I still haven't decided about Toledo, as the Hostal del Cardenal sounds best for driving, but is a little pricey for our budget.
Now that I've broken the barriers, I will probably drive you crazy with questions, so thanks in advance for any suggestions and recommendations.
Mar 14th, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Canada:
May I suggest an "authentico" lodging in Sevilla...in the heart of the colorful Barrio de Santa Cruz, the street of which you will be constantly wandering...<b>Las Casas de la Juderia</b>. Large rooms and bathrooms, excellent buffet bksts...easy walk to most of Sevilla's major points of interest. Current rates are found here
I don't know what your budget is)
http://www.sevilla5.com/hotels/juderia.html
Stu T.
May I suggest an "authentico" lodging in Sevilla...in the heart of the colorful Barrio de Santa Cruz, the street of which you will be constantly wandering...<b>Las Casas de la Juderia</b>. Large rooms and bathrooms, excellent buffet bksts...easy walk to most of Sevilla's major points of interest. Current rates are found here
I don't know what your budget is)http://www.sevilla5.com/hotels/juderia.html
Stu T.
Mar 14th, 2009, 12:39 PM
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KC Canada:
...also bear in mind that distances and the time for driving certain parts of Spain are to be considered...may take longer than you figure. Night driving ain't no fun at all in the more mountainous areas (Ronda/Cartajima, Granada, etc). Please be aware. You certainly have scheduled a rather all-encompassing trip...
stu t.
...also bear in mind that distances and the time for driving certain parts of Spain are to be considered...may take longer than you figure. Night driving ain't no fun at all in the more mountainous areas (Ronda/Cartajima, Granada, etc). Please be aware. You certainly have scheduled a rather all-encompassing trip...
stu t.
Mar 14th, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Las casas de la judería rooms differ greatly, but if you can secure a good rate, it is a charming place.
Your itinerary looks good to me as I could easily do that myself. Not too much driving in my opinion at all. Sounds like a wonderful trip and route well planned.
Do not miss Consuegra. That Granada-Ubeda-Toledo day is quite long, but Consuegra is directly on your path and worth a drive up the hill to the windmills and castle.
Your itinerary looks good to me as I could easily do that myself. Not too much driving in my opinion at all. Sounds like a wonderful trip and route well planned.
Do not miss Consuegra. That Granada-Ubeda-Toledo day is quite long, but Consuegra is directly on your path and worth a drive up the hill to the windmills and castle.
Mar 14th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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24 years ago we did a 3 week trip to Spain which started and ended on the French side of the Pyrenees. So I do not think that your trip is excessive in terms of distances. We looped around, but avoided Madrid and Toledo. Some of what we did might interest you.
We stayed a few nights in Segovia (which has more to see than Avila, in my opinion) with a day trip to Avila. We then went to Salamanca via Madrigal de las Altas Torres, which happens to be the location of the convent where Queen Isabella grew up. It can be visited and gives an idea of the low status of the Castilian (sp?) royal house compared to France, or the Dukes of Burgundy, or almost any Italian princely family of that time. From Salamanca we drove down to Seville, with an overnight in Caceres. Merida has some important Roman ruins. From Seville we went to Cordoba and Granada, and then back to France, again by-passing Madrid. My point is simply that by modifying some of your itinerary (seeing Toledo and renting the car there on the way south?) you could experience some of the Extremadura by reversing the itinerary we followed.
Enjoy your trip.
We stayed a few nights in Segovia (which has more to see than Avila, in my opinion) with a day trip to Avila. We then went to Salamanca via Madrigal de las Altas Torres, which happens to be the location of the convent where Queen Isabella grew up. It can be visited and gives an idea of the low status of the Castilian (sp?) royal house compared to France, or the Dukes of Burgundy, or almost any Italian princely family of that time. From Salamanca we drove down to Seville, with an overnight in Caceres. Merida has some important Roman ruins. From Seville we went to Cordoba and Granada, and then back to France, again by-passing Madrid. My point is simply that by modifying some of your itinerary (seeing Toledo and renting the car there on the way south?) you could experience some of the Extremadura by reversing the itinerary we followed.
Enjoy your trip.
Mar 14th, 2009, 05:23 PM
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Looks fantastic right up to day 24 then it is still good but a bit busy imo but I always need a slow down at the end. You may not need that though. Do you have a day or two at home upon arrival to rest?
Mar 15th, 2009, 04:09 AM
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Very carefully planned indeed. Just one tip: Grazalema is a charming small town surrouned by very nice walking routes. In case you are interested in photos from the Nature park of Grazalema or the routes, check http://www.topwalks.net/en/sierra_grazalema.htm
Ronda, Seville, Jerez, Cordoba are my other favourites in the western part of Andalusia.
May is good, before the tourist season.
Good plan!
Ronda, Seville, Jerez, Cordoba are my other favourites in the western part of Andalusia.
May is good, before the tourist season.
Good plan!
Mar 15th, 2009, 05:24 AM
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I like the plan overall, and it doesn't seem too ambitious to me at all, but I enjoy driving as well. Tower is absolutely right about driving in the white villages; it may take longer than you expect. Mountain roads marked 40 km/h really mean that!
My only comments:
In Cordoba, be sure to see the Alcazaba with its wonderful gardens. On a recent trip, my brother-in-law preferred this to the Alhambra (I disagreed).
Have a plan for Nerja if it is rainy. I didn't think much of Nerja but I'd been in the Costa del Sol for over a week by then.
You may want to skip Ubeda or Baeza on the drive up to Toledo. Both are very nice towns with pretty town squares, but you'll have seen many by then. Make sure to stop in Consuegra and see the windmills.
It sounds like a great trip!
My only comments:
In Cordoba, be sure to see the Alcazaba with its wonderful gardens. On a recent trip, my brother-in-law preferred this to the Alhambra (I disagreed).
Have a plan for Nerja if it is rainy. I didn't think much of Nerja but I'd been in the Costa del Sol for over a week by then.
You may want to skip Ubeda or Baeza on the drive up to Toledo. Both are very nice towns with pretty town squares, but you'll have seen many by then. Make sure to stop in Consuegra and see the windmills.
It sounds like a great trip!
Mar 15th, 2009, 09:59 AM
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Thank you all for your kind words and helpful suggestions.
Tower - I would love to stay at Las Casas de la Juderia, but they are quoting E200 and that's beyond our budget. In fact, compared to other rates in Seville, it appears they may have missed that there's a recession on! We're trying to stick to about E100/night, although since some of our choices are less, we can splurge on others. We are definitely looking at the Barrio Santa Cruz area though. Our first thought was Amadeus but they appear to be sold out on our dates.
As for driving times, I've been using ViaMichelin as my guide. As an example, they predict 33 minutes from Ronda to Grazalema, a distance of 32km. Is this realistic?
Lincasanova - I had hoped to make a stop at Consuegra, so your advice confirms it for me. We'll need a rest-stop by that time, and will maybe plan a quick picnic under the windmills.
Michael - Your itinerary looks great and I admit I hadn't thought of that route ... probably because I started with the AVE train to Seville and just went from there. Extramadura looks beautiful. I will get my maps back out and have a look, although I suspect it will add just a bit too much driving to our limited time.
Amsdon - Yes, I looked at that final few days and wondered if it was too much, but we made the trade-off between spending an extra night somewhere (probably Segovia) vs. getting home on Friday night so we can recover over the weekend. So I guess we'll be pushing a bit towards the end. I have some questions about options for that last night, which I will post as a separate question.
Walksntalks - Thank you so much for the link to the website for walking routes in Andalucia. I've bookmarked it and we'll probably try for a couple of walks in that area.
QueScaisJe - You've discovered my planning weakness ... when I envision my holiday plans, the weather is always glorious. Coming from the Wet Coast of Canada, you'd think I would have a more realistic view! I guess if it rains in Nerja we could go to the caves, and otherwise just sit in a nice cafe and sip wine. And I did wonder if we'd be tiring of beautiful Renaissance towns by the time we hit Baeza/Ubeda, but that's the advantage of having a car. We can make that decision as we drive north from Granada.
Does anybody have thoughts on a hotel in Toledo? I do like the sounds of Hostal del Cardenal, especially with a car, but is it a bit too far from the action? How long and steep is the walk from there to, say, the Cathedral or Plaza Zocodover? (We're not averse to walking, but we don't want to be so far away that we can't go "home" for a siesta.)
Tower - I would love to stay at Las Casas de la Juderia, but they are quoting E200 and that's beyond our budget. In fact, compared to other rates in Seville, it appears they may have missed that there's a recession on! We're trying to stick to about E100/night, although since some of our choices are less, we can splurge on others. We are definitely looking at the Barrio Santa Cruz area though. Our first thought was Amadeus but they appear to be sold out on our dates.
As for driving times, I've been using ViaMichelin as my guide. As an example, they predict 33 minutes from Ronda to Grazalema, a distance of 32km. Is this realistic?
Lincasanova - I had hoped to make a stop at Consuegra, so your advice confirms it for me. We'll need a rest-stop by that time, and will maybe plan a quick picnic under the windmills.
Michael - Your itinerary looks great and I admit I hadn't thought of that route ... probably because I started with the AVE train to Seville and just went from there. Extramadura looks beautiful. I will get my maps back out and have a look, although I suspect it will add just a bit too much driving to our limited time.
Amsdon - Yes, I looked at that final few days and wondered if it was too much, but we made the trade-off between spending an extra night somewhere (probably Segovia) vs. getting home on Friday night so we can recover over the weekend. So I guess we'll be pushing a bit towards the end. I have some questions about options for that last night, which I will post as a separate question.
Walksntalks - Thank you so much for the link to the website for walking routes in Andalucia. I've bookmarked it and we'll probably try for a couple of walks in that area.
QueScaisJe - You've discovered my planning weakness ... when I envision my holiday plans, the weather is always glorious. Coming from the Wet Coast of Canada, you'd think I would have a more realistic view! I guess if it rains in Nerja we could go to the caves, and otherwise just sit in a nice cafe and sip wine. And I did wonder if we'd be tiring of beautiful Renaissance towns by the time we hit Baeza/Ubeda, but that's the advantage of having a car. We can make that decision as we drive north from Granada.
Does anybody have thoughts on a hotel in Toledo? I do like the sounds of Hostal del Cardenal, especially with a car, but is it a bit too far from the action? How long and steep is the walk from there to, say, the Cathedral or Plaza Zocodover? (We're not averse to walking, but we don't want to be so far away that we can't go "home" for a siesta.)
Mar 15th, 2009, 12:24 PM
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You can probably get cheaper rates just across the river on the hill across from the city where the views at night are beautiful.
There is a parking lot at the base of Toledo, or you could just cab back and forth if the hotel savings were enough to justify that.
We always have a car and have never stayed in "downtown" Toledo, and I don't feel I have been cheated out of anything.
Doing a quick search for you I found on www.kayak.es the Sercotel Hotel El Greco for 60E.
It used to be a Best Western, I think. I have stopped there several times as it is in an excellent location at the base of the hill.
A parking lot may be nearby. There is blue zone parking in the vicinity. ( free at night, but pay during the day in max. lumps of two hours).
Of the hotels listed in order of price, I would have NO QUALMS at all staying at this small well-located place at this price.
However, perhaps someone who has actually stayed there can help out. The rooms are not big, but that is not unusual for this area.
There is a parking lot at the base of Toledo, or you could just cab back and forth if the hotel savings were enough to justify that.
We always have a car and have never stayed in "downtown" Toledo, and I don't feel I have been cheated out of anything.
Doing a quick search for you I found on www.kayak.es the Sercotel Hotel El Greco for 60E.
It used to be a Best Western, I think. I have stopped there several times as it is in an excellent location at the base of the hill.
A parking lot may be nearby. There is blue zone parking in the vicinity. ( free at night, but pay during the day in max. lumps of two hours).
Of the hotels listed in order of price, I would have NO QUALMS at all staying at this small well-located place at this price.
However, perhaps someone who has actually stayed there can help out. The rooms are not big, but that is not unusual for this area.
Mar 15th, 2009, 12:27 PM
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I think Ekscrunchy has a trip report about Toledo...I will look for it.
As for Sevilla aside from the reliable recs from Maribel, have you looked at these?
http://www.exploreseville.com/hotel.htm
I had been thinking for some time of Suites del Maesto but they are a bit higher than you want, but are equiped with a kitchen.
As for Sevilla aside from the reliable recs from Maribel, have you looked at these?
http://www.exploreseville.com/hotel.htm
I had been thinking for some time of Suites del Maesto but they are a bit higher than you want, but are equiped with a kitchen.
Mar 15th, 2009, 12:31 PM
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The Hostal del Cardenal is on the edge of town, but still no more than a 15 minute walk to Plaza Zocodover. The old town of Toledo is quite compact. We looked into staying here as well--their gardens are lovely--but it was booked. We ended up nearby at the Hotel Sol (C/Azacanes 15); basic but clean accommodations with parking down the street.
In Sevilla we stayed at Hostería del Laurel (Plaza de los Venerables 5), in the heart of Santa Cruz. This was another non-luxurious place, booked mainly because it was Feria and everything else was either sold out or out-of-sight price-wise.
In Sevilla we stayed at Hostería del Laurel (Plaza de los Venerables 5), in the heart of Santa Cruz. This was another non-luxurious place, booked mainly because it was Feria and everything else was either sold out or out-of-sight price-wise.
Mar 16th, 2009, 07:42 PM
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Thanks again for your help. We're pretty much set on our route now, and have started booking some hotels. I have already booked a day-time visit to the Alhambra, but will get on with booking a night visit too. I should also review Maribel's tutorial for booking on-line with Renfe, as I think we're getting close to the magic 62 days out from our Madrid-Cordoba-Seville AVE trip. Yikes, and I haven't learned Spanish yet!
I'm getting a bit spooked about hotel bookings as it seems to be a very popular season in Spain. I don't know what's going on in Salamanca, but there's very little availability for our dates. I'm thinking of going ahead with the RoomMate Vega there. For Seville, the Amadeus, Alcantara, Alminar and Casa del Maestro are all booked. I'm debating the Murillo or the Hosteria del Laurel.
As for Toledo, the Pintor El Greco looks very nice and at half the price of Hostal del Cardenal, i think I will jump on that one. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm getting a bit spooked about hotel bookings as it seems to be a very popular season in Spain. I don't know what's going on in Salamanca, but there's very little availability for our dates. I'm thinking of going ahead with the RoomMate Vega there. For Seville, the Amadeus, Alcantara, Alminar and Casa del Maestro are all booked. I'm debating the Murillo or the Hosteria del Laurel.
As for Toledo, the Pintor El Greco looks very nice and at half the price of Hostal del Cardenal, i think I will jump on that one. Thanks for the recommendation.
