Something we do all the time when dining out with friends and everybody wants to use their credit card is to just ask the waiter to put X amount on one card and X amount on the other. We have never had any trouble doing this in any restaurant in the US, and did it last winter in Mexico, too, sometimes with more than 2 credit cards if the group is larger. I can't see this being a problem in Italy, even if 2 checks is not possible. This way nobody has to come up with change or cash, and you can just do a quick calculation at the table.

We frequently travel with another couple and here's how we do it...If we are away for say 8 days, we will pay for everything for 4 days and they will pay for everything for 4 days. When we get home and the credit card bills come in, we see who spent more and one of us send out a check. Doing it this way we usually come out very close.

Lord! Im getting stressed out just thinking about being in that situation at least twice a day. Im sorry and I hope that wont put a damper on your holiday.

What I would do is (in a very positive voice) give her a choice by saying "So, _______ should split the bill 3 ways evenly every time we go out? or would you prefer to bring a small notebook and pencil and just jot down the amounts you are ordering at the beginning of the meal?" Then split the tax, cover charge etc. X3.

Get it over with early, in the beginning of the meal so that everyone is happy and can enjoy their meal without squirming in their chairs for the duration worrying about how to deal with it.

Good Luck and I hope you have a lovely time.

I just thought of something else (just out of devilment) maybe you should first ask her to use her credit card to pay for everything and you and your mom can figure out how much you owe her! THEN after you see her dumbfounded face, offer to "Oh lets just split 3 ways"

Just leave her at home! She is not going to be fun to have on the trip if she is that cheap.

We do as one poster suggested: Everyone throw in $200 in the pot and one person pay all the food bills. trust me, it works out. If she spends a few extra bucks it will not be worth it to calculate.

Bottom line: If you worry so much about this now you are taking the wrong person with you. Good luck!

SusanP-I was agreeing with you about being easy to figure out since tax and tip were included, I guess I just didn't make myself too clear. That's what happens when I am typing my message quickly.

I think this whole thing is becoming more difficult than it really is. Just have frugal friend pay her share at each meal (including tax and tip). It's easy with an itemized bill. Discuss this arrangement with her before you leave and the issue is solved.

djkbooks-I have to agree with aggiegirl that just because someone is frugal doesn't mean they are dishonest or cheap. I called my friend frugal but she is just more careful of her money when traveling and isn't really a foodie. I enjoy having wine with my dinner and just experiencing the whole meal, while my friend is more "eating is OK but I do it mostly because I am hungry so I'll eat just what is necessary". This certainly doesn't make her dishonest or cheap. Probably not the best traveling partner for dining out but still an honest person.

I can picture your friend, as my parents would fall into the 'frugal' category, and they do not drink. Having said that, they are honest and savvy travelers and fine company on a trip.

I go with my original post about 50 back, just let the woman see the bill and contribute her amount in cash each meal.

What Suze said. What's the big deal? She can just throw in her money at the end of the meal or pay her share later. The bill is itemized and the tip is a fixed percentage, so the numbers are all in black and white and should be easy to handle.

I'm not frugal, but I don't drink. So, I've really resented over the years splitting the bill evenly when I didn't have any of the wine or expensive sake. (Plus I've often had to then transport them home or hold their hair while they vomited in the ladies room.) Why should I subsidize someone else indulgence? Or, if the friend isn't hungry, why should she have to pay a huge amount for someone's steak or lobster when all she had was soup?

I also think the person whose friend this is should discuss it if there is any question, but past experience should tell her how this works at restaurants. I don't think (although maybe I missed it) that reedpaints ever came back and clarified whether "frugal" was a pejorative and really meant someone who wouldn't pay their share and was not just cheap but cheating others, or if it really just meant frugal.

I agree with Aine and am surprised at so many people who think people can't add a few numbers in their head or that other people should have elaborate accounting schemes and later settle up credit cards, etc.

Almost every person I have known who thinks it is a keen idea to split a bill evenly is the one who is trying to cheat the others because they ordered more expensive things. Why do people think it necessary to pay for other people's dinners rather than just paying for what they ordered? I go out wiht friends a lot and only when we've both order about the same things do we say let's just split the bill. Nobody thinks I am "frugal" (or whoever wants to only pay for what they ordered) or questions this.

IN Italy, since service is included, and tax, this is really simply arithmetic. Is it really so difficult for people to add up a couple numbers in their head? You don't have to add them to the cent, you know, but 14.80 euro is pretty much 15, plus 3.95 for a drink would be 4, and maybe one other thing. I can add a couple numbers in seconds in my head.

I would be annoyed if others suggested we split bills for no good reason, I just pay for what I ordered. I think the only people suggest that is because they order more than others or can't add.

Christina, my friends and I usually split the bill (or come up with a total without wine and add a wine surcharge if there is a person who doesn't drink) because it's so much easier. If you're only talking about + - $2.00, what's the big deal?

Christina, I can add perfectly well, thank you very much, and although I do drink wine, I am a very light eater and often order less food than anyone else in the group. But unless it is really extreme, I don't mind sharing at all. I know it costs me more than what I ate, but I am fortunate not to have to worry about a few dollars here and there and I consider the dinner to be a shared experience with friends.

I respect others' wishes when they want to pay more exactly, however, in my experience it is usually more trouble than it's worth.

If the $2 is to my advantage, I would feel bad about letting my friend pick up the slack. If the $2 is to my disadvantage, I would probably not mind, but I wouldn't be thrilled either. I make choices from the restaurant menu based on the price/value ratio and what I feel comfortable spending. I'd want my dining companion to do the same, whether she feels flush that day or not. So this idea that we should split would hamper my menu choices in the first place.

That said, I did recently attend a business lunch where we all ordered what we wanted, and then we all chipped in equally and paid for the departing guy's lunch. It worked out that the equal share was almost exactly equivalent to what I would have paid on my own. But even so, I wouldn't have minded, because this is a rare occasion and the real purpose was to send someone off happily, rather than to eat lunch.

I could not agree with Marilyn more. The dining is a "shared experience with friends". It is hard for me to understand how many people don't consider that aspect. The real question is: Would you mind spending a few extra dollars to have a nice meal, with good friends, having a good time? I do not drink alcohol, but my wife does. This usually means we paye a bit more than our friends, as most of the couples we dine with will both have a drink before dinner. It *never* crosses my mind to debate the price of the bill, and it sure isn't because I am rolling in $$$...it is the minor "cover charge" for a good dining experience!

Well, poor reedpaints is probably scared off (sorry, reedpaints!) but this has been an interesting discussion anyway.

Are frugal people out to cheat others? I don't think this necessarily follows, any more than those who enjoy lavish meals are necessarily trying to be subsidized by their friends of more conservative tastes. Character is neither a function of one's appetite nor of one's income.

Last time we travelled with another couple, we took the 'kitty' approach. The value of this wasn't so much the 50/50 (or 1/3-2/3) distribution, as that we were able to agree on an average daily budget beforehand. If we had had major differences in expectations, i.e. they had wanted to eat much more simply - or elaborately - than us, we would have split up for meals.

It sure would be nice to be so rich you never had to worry about paying for things.

I don't see how so many people could bad mouth a person who did not want to cheerfully pay for the wine, expensive meals or desserts of others.

Let's turn the tables a bit. I used to have a friend who would always order the most expensive item on the menu plus multiple glasses of wine and dessert for lunch and then expect us to split the bill even if I only had a single glass of wine, no dessert (yes, I know its hard to believe) and a much less expensive lunch dish. The excuse was "let's make it simple for the waiter and not make a fuss!" Yeah, right!

I stopped this little scam real quick. You don't need friends who refuse to pay thier own way.

The idea of a common food money pool is a hard feelings disaster waiting to happen.

when I have travelled with my 2 friends in Europe we have a "kitty".
We decide on a figure say 50 euro each and buy everything from this amount.
Train, bus tickets. Museum entry, meals etc. When it is getting low we add another 50 euro.
We used our "own" money for personal items and gifts etc.
This worked well for us and we took turns looking after the kitty.
We also did not get silly about who ate what and what cost more etc. It all balances out in the end and we had absoluttely no problems.

There's really two different threads of answers going on her~ what "we" do when traveling regarding finances & what might prove an effective method for reedpaints and her particular situation!

One trip with a friend (he had been to Paris and I had been to Venice before), I arranged & paid for everything for the 4 days in Venice, then he did the same for our 5 days in Paris. We both have similar taste in food and wine and spending styles and Venice is a tad more expensive than Paris so it worked out fine.

After reading all of these answers, I'm either very lucky, or I have chosen my traveling partners very carefully.

None of my friends that I've travelled with, which by the way, I've narrowed down to 2, (Traveling is too enjoyable for me to go with someone I don't enjoy being with 100%.) have ever tried to take advantage of me or vice versa.

If one of us eats more than the other, we simply put more in when paying the check. We certainly don't take out a calculator, but estimate things. Yes, maybe one time I might pay more than they do, but I know that the next time, they may be the ones who pay a bit more. I've been friends with these two women for more than 25 years (yikes, that makes me feel old) and we've always worked it out this way, even when we're not traveling but just going out to dinner or lunch.

I truly believe that in the long run we're coming out even. To be honest with you, I would NEVER travel with someone that I felt is going to try and make me pay for her/his way. If they are like that, there's probably some other charasteristics about them that I wouldn't like anyway.

In europe it is more common to get two bills.

where there is one bill in europe, it is more common for people to split by what they actually ordered rather than to split by the number of diners. This is just my experience living in both places. i have adapted to both ways and splitting by what you ordered is not a problem and in your case, it may be the best bet.

Wow! Imagine my surprise coming back to see how long this thread has gotten! So sorry for the late reply but I've had a hectic weekend. You haven't scared me away and I truly appreciate the time each one of you has taken to comment on this.

Okay... A few comments:

<<The easiest way to handle this on an ongoing basis is for you and your mother to pay and let the friend reimburse you for her share. >>

Yes, I think this is correct. It might simplify things at least.

<<What role is YOUR MOTHER going to play in this? After all, the "frugal" person is HER friend. So why isn't your Mother "discussing" this "issue" with the friend rather than having you end up being the "big bad person"...>>

Well that would take reams of paper to analyze and give you reasons, honestly. It IS my mother's friend, but my mother has trouble with confrontation. I'm not much better, frankly. But I know if we don't meet this head on, it will fester and get bigger and th etrip with be affected and that is the LAST thing I want to have happen.

<<Personally I would rather die than whip out a calculator>>

Uh... I have to sort of agree on this one but it may be necessary.

<<After our first meal together we devised a "Paris Pot" with each person contributing the same amount of FF (before the Euro) to the "pot" and we made one person our banker.>>

I would love to do it this way and with most of the other friends I travel with, this is exactly what we do. Works splendidly and no one feels they're getting the short end. In this case, however, for meals it wouldn't work with her (for instance: she drinks tons and tons of wine and I don't drink at all). I do plant to use the "Pot" for other expenses though... Taxi's, buses, coins for lighting up paintings, etc.)

<<f you are lucky reedpaints, the Frugal Friend will decide after a couple of days that figuring her exact bill and having the right change is a hassle and not worth the small amount of difference. >>

I'm not holding my breath on this but it would be nice!

<, I'd be interested to know if this person is frugal in the sense that she will rip you off if you don't watch out, or if she simply likes to economize.>>

No ripping off with this one... More of a heart economizer. For example: this year she visited my parents in the state they live in an they took her out to dinner four of the five nights she was in town. They paid for the dinners (which they had planned all along). She took them to a very thrifty Applebees type dinner on the last night (again, just fine as my parents are not food snobs and they thought it was nice of her). But at the end of the meal she looked at my mom and told her that she needed to leave the tip. My parents didn't think anything of this particularly but I did... I thought that after they had taken her out four nights and she was staying at the house, it would have been kind (and something I myself would have done) to pay for one dinner (all of it). She is a very, very nice lady but she's tight... She haggles on things I wouldn't dream of haggling on, hates to tip, and watches pennies very closely. I know... I know, then why on earth are you traveling with her? Call it speaking before you think if you will. It just sort of happened and as the trip draws closer, I just find myself thinking of things that should be straight before we go. In fact, I plan to head up a "planning dinner" for the three of us a couple of nights before we depart.

<<Practically speaking, how many meals are we considering? Are the three of you going to be joined at the hip? Or will you all be wandering off - to different parts of the same museum, to different museums?>>

On this trip I'm afraid it will be a joined at the hip thing. All of our plans (excluding a few of my own in which I will be on my own) are together. Anyone here going to be in Italy during October, please raise your hand! Perhaps I'll come have dinner with you!

Thanks again guys...