Hi all... BIG question about Italian Restaurant etiquette... In the U.S. it's usually not much of a problem to ask for two separate checks when dining with others. We're going to Italy in 3 weeks (there are 3 of us). Two of us (my mother and I) will be joined by her friend who is (how shall I say this diplomatically... sort of frugal). In order to avoid any of us feeling slighted, I need to figure this out before we leave. My mom and I will just split everything and pay as one but how do we do it evenly with the third party? Especially when it comes to tipping etc. And speaking of tipping, this is another subject that I'm going to get a consensus on BEFORE we leave so we know what to do without discussing it. Anyway, is asking for two separate bills horrible? I suspect that it is so are there any suggestions from those of you who travel with others? What do you do when the bill comes?

Thanks!

Most folks just take turns picking up the entire check. But, I'm guessing that would be a problem with this particular person.

If she plans to pay cash, you could always just add up her share with gratuity and collect the cash. If she balks on tipping, well, why quibble?

How can you come to a consensus without discussing this?

Asking for separate bills is not horrible, but it is terribly inconvenient for the entire staff. And, some places may just not comply.

We don't travel with folks who are problematic about restaurant checks, as they tend to be unendurable in all ways.

I travelled all by myself in Italy, but when I was in Germany, they were MUCH MUCH nicer about splitting checks than back in the States. They often asked if we wanted to split the check (it was 4-5 college aged girls usually though, just the sort that would usually split checks), and didn't act as if it was an inconvenience at all, though I know it was a slight one.

When I was in Italy though, they often brought out a paper, and added my bill up right there in front of me, checking everything I had. I don't imagine this would be much harder to do seperately or together.

When I travel with a friend who isn't my partner, we take turns at picking up the bill. I generally avoid travelling with "frugal" friends (what a nice strength-based term that is!) because of the potential difficulties that might arise. However, on occasions where I have found myself travelling with such people, I find it best to spell things out right at the start. In a strength-based way of course, so as not to offend. For example: "Rather than buy into the difficulties and embarrassment of bill-splitting every time we go somewhere, what say we do it in turns?"

However, if I've turned down approaches, I'd find a way of spelling out the arrangement first, but in a "strength-based" wa

Ignore the last 2 lines in the above - I thought I had edited them out.

I'd probably either ask for separate checks or ask the friend if they minded paying you while you handled the entire bill. That way you get to control the tip. If the friend chips something in, great. If not, you can be the judge of what to leave.

The note about it being "terribly inconvenient for the entire staff" to split checks amuses me. I know some waitstaff see it this way, but why is beyond me. If you tell them up front it's no worse than handling two tables--particularly when there's only 3 of you. Wouldn't want their job to get in the way of... their job.

I think in Italy you will encounter a number of restaurants where they will say no, they cannot split the check.

The easiest way to handle this on an ongoing basis is for you and your mother to pay and let the friend reimburse you for her share. Since you have described the friend as "frugal," you and your mother just need to accept the fact that you will inevitably end up paying a little bit more than your share. It probably won't amount to much, but better to come to terms with it beforehand than to feel resentful throughout the trip.

When travelling with friends, we put all of us the same amount of money in one purse and live on it. It is the responsability of one person to deal with checks and tips. No questions asked, we have confidence. We also have one 'frugal' travel friend, but he is never having responsability for that purse!

IUt won'r work with the purse as if she is cheap she will feel that she got the bad end of the stick. To be honest have a chat before you go and set up groundrules or else it can get messy. Bring a calculator and figure her amount at the table. Most places will be a pain about doing separate checks. It is NOT the same as Germany where they automatically do that. If she is that bad....leave her home!

There's a big disconnect here as far as I am concerned...and that is this:

What role is YOUR MOTHER going to play in this? After all, the "frugal" person is HER friend. So why isn't your Mother "discussing" this "issue" with the friend rather than having you end up being the "big bad person"...sorry, but that is EXACTLY what I see looming unless it is decided by everyone involved and discussed by everyone involved in advance.

You want a "strength position" to lead from? Well, here it is: "Im sorry but it is not the usual custom in European restaurants for them to split the check so what do you (the "frugal" one) suggest we do about this?" In other words, stick this ugly monkey on the "frugal" one's back and also give them a little "control" in the decision.

My take: It doesn't quite matter how you handle it, as long as you TAKE CHARGE of the situation. The worst is to let things fester or get out of hand.

(Personally I would rather die than whip out a calculator -- but I come from a generation that was drilled in mental arithmetic, so I can do all the sums in my head anyway.)

Possible approaches are several. You could discuss it beforehand -- "How shall we handle meals?" and after the friend has mumbled vaguely, give YOUR solution: "I'll handle the finances and tell you what you owe." "You could pay for every third meal." Or whatever.

Hi reed,

When we travel with friends who do not imbibe there is a major difference between the cost of our meals and theirs.

We have found no difficulty keeping track of what each of us should pay because we get an itemized bill.

If your mother's friend doesn't want to keep paying cash, you could do all the charging and let her write you a check later.

Re tipping: All prices at Italian restaurants include a 15% service charge. If you wish to leave something extra for particularly good service, it should be no more than a few euro left on the table.

I expect that one of the problems you'll have, if you propose either to a) split the cheque into thirds or b) take turns paying, is that you and your mother will pick up on your companion's "frugal vibe" - and this will inhibit you when it comes to choosing a restaurant and choosing menu items. (In other words, she'll intentionally or unintentionally guilt you into picking cheaper restaurants when it's "her turn" to pay, or guilt you into picking the cheapest items on the menu.) So, proposing to divide the bill into thirds or taking turns paying probably won't work well.

On the other hand, if, as others suggest, you add up her share of the bill, take her payment for it (suggesting a tip amount but accepting gracefully whatever she offers) and then assume responsibility for the whole check, then she can order her frugal meal and you can order what you want. Of course, you won't deliberately add to her stress level by picking exorbitantly priced restaurants, but you'll still have the freedom to order what you want and pick reasonable restaurants where she can order what she wants.

maybe things are changing, but it used to be tipping wasn't a huge deal overseas as it was in the US? i.e. it isn't the 15-20% of the bill we see here, but less? a friend in London a few years back said usually you just round up to an even number and leave that.

I'm only mentioning this b/c perhaps her not tipping very much won't be as big of an issue (just don't tell her 10% is normal, or she will leave nada).

I think we Americans take our customs with us (15-20%) which at first was seen as a windfall by wait staff who were not accustomed to it, and now over the years have perhaps come to expect it?

thoughts?

I do like Baldrick's suggestion - never did it before though.

The simplest thing to do is just split the check evenly under the theory that over the course of a week, it'll balance out. To simplify things even further when my wife's aunt accopanied us to Portugal last summer, we just put everything on our credit card and figured it out when we got home.

However, that sounds like it won't be practical on this trip. The easiest way then is to simply pay for what you've had. If you're intent is to use credit cards, then either she can give you the cash after each meal on when you get home.

The one upside of Europe is that service is included. So, you don't have to worry about debates of what to tip.

Like Ira, I don't want someone else paying for my wine. Last year when my mother & I went to London & Paris, she would not have quibbled about just splitting the check. However, she doesn't drink and I enjoy wine with my dinner and don't want her paying for it. Also, I might want to order something more expensive and don't want the other person paying for it and don't want to have to worry about what I order. The point is, in Europe, the tax and service are included, so it's really pretty easy to figure out how much each person owes. If you want to leave a small tip, that is usally left in cash on the table, so each person can do whatever they want. You should easily be able to figure out what this "frugal" person owes, and if you want to put the meals on your credit card, she can just pay you. Especially with this sort of person, it's very important to have this clear ahead of time!

Discuss before your trip and propose this solution, so you are (hopefully) all in agreement long before the first meal:

When the check comes let the frugal friend see it and write down her own expenses, figured either by hand or using a calculator. You could have her keep a running tab and pay your Mom and the end, or put in her cash at each meal (I suggest her having cash as the only reasonable means of doing this, her trying to do her portion with a charge card isn't going to work).

Asking for separate checks in Italy is cumbersome and simply not available many places.

As mentioned servie is often included in the bill, as far as tipping beyond that just let each person leave a little (or not) at their own place and don't worry about it.

Spliting, alternating, sharing... I'm betting will not work in the dynamic of the 3 people you describe.

A few years ago a group of us, 4 women, went to Paris for a week. After our first meal together we devised a "Paris Pot" with each person contributing the same amount of FF (before the Euro) to the "pot" and we made one person our banker. When we all went to dinner together we paid out of the "Paris Pot" and also included the tip. When our pot got low we simply added equal amounts per person again. It worked great for us and we have since used it on lots of trips. It doesn't matter where we go we always call it the "Paris Pot"! We too had a frugal person on our 1st trip but this solved lots of problems, such as I had.....and you had.....etc. What a pain. Anyhow, as we ventured in different directions during the day each person was responsible for paying for their own food, drink, etc. unless all of us were eating together.

Suspaul, a common purse (we call it The Kitty) is exactly the same as splitting the bill equally between all 3 people. The Frugal Friend is not going to be happy with this arrangement, because she wants to pay only for what she actually eats.

We have traveled many, many times with friends and have tried every variation you can think of on how to split expenses. The bottom line is that anything other than equal splitting is rather a pain in the a$$. A common purse is really the easiest, as no one has to come up with exact change several times a day and you don't have any running accounts to keep track of.

If you are lucky reedpaints, the Frugal Friend will decide after a couple of days that figuring her exact bill and having the right change is a hassle and not worth the small amount of difference.

We once traveled with another couple who wanted to itemize in the same way, but after a few days I was able to point out to them that the total difference between splitting and exact accounting would have come to about $2 and they decided we could split from them on.

My advice: dont let the frugal add up her own because I bet it will come out alot less "by accident". I have seen this with my own eyes when we traveled with a frugal couple.

Another thing you might want to watch is that she will suddenly get "not hungry" and "only want a soup" or even start complaining about stopping to eat all the time. Even watch out for "this place looks too expensive" when in fact it would be a normal restaurant and then you will hesitate to eat there or take the time out for eating at all.

Please learn from my horrible experience and lay it on the table (pun intended) before you even go and lay out the groundwork for when and what type of places you will eat.

Maybe she can just go into a museum while you and your mother enjoy a nice meal and she hesitates to join you.

Good luck from someone who has been there!