Please help! My daughter has never been to Europe but we are both Anglophiles. I'd prefer not to be trapped on a tour or have to drive. I've done trains before and think we could manage that. Any ideas for an itinerary? I'm thinking I'd like to include London for 2-3 days, Edinburgh 2 days, (other suggstions for Scotland?)and Bath, York, Cotswolds, Oxford...? I've never seen the Lake District or Cornwall... I want an overview of the prettiest places, neat architecture. I'd like to stay in places with character-country house hotels, etc. We'd be going November/December or late spring. Thoughts?

Hi G,

Your request is much too broad.

You might want to look up the UK under "Destinations".

Have you considered going to the library and getting some guide books?

After you have a draft itinerary, let us help you improve it.

greystone

Our kids' first exposure to Europe was to England many years ago. We rented a house on the Thames about a half hour from London near Oxford.

We rented a car and took day trips from there. We were only there 8 days but we spent time in London, Bath, Canterbury, Oxford and Staffordshire. It was a very busy week. I'd recommend concentrating on a few areas of interest, especially as you may be using the trains and it will take up more time than driving.

I loved every part of England I've seen so far. Have been itching to head up to Scotland but I'd spend more than two days there if I were you. The train time alone will suck up a day.

Happy researching - I don't think you can go wrong in England!

CY

I can't help with your itinerary, but I will say this is a great idea! I took a trip to Puerto Rico with my mom when I turned 19. We had a blast and still laugh about it today. My mother was probably in her early 40's at the time. (my age now )

Definitely pick up a couple of guide books and pick out places you don't want to miss out on. The people here will be great at fine tuning your trip. Good luck

We just returned from our third trip to London and spent 10 nights with 3 daytrips out of the city...1 driving/2 train. Spending only 2 days on our last trip didn't allow us to really see London at all, and I fear you will find the same if you plan for a one or two day stop in all the centres you've mentioned.

If you're not driving or taking a tour then some areas like the Cotswolds will be harder to manage. There are smaller van like tours out of London which might work. Astral is often recommended, and it would allow you to stay in the same place for more than 2 nights. The other van tour group friends have used for 3-4 overnights in the countryside are BackRoads. They loved them and the company use beautiful country inns for accommodations.

Otherwise Bath, York, Edinburgh are all very worthwhile. If you could take the time to see a little more of Scotland, I don't think you'd be disappointed but I would wait till spring for warmer weather in both countries.

Our dd and her 16 yr old brother went to London/Paris for almost 3 weeks when she was 20 and loved it. The urban environment definitely appeals to that age group, but they did do a tour to Stonehenge/Bath as well. With the Eurostar, a trip to Paris (and leaving some luggage at your hotel in London) could be easily done too. I think asking your daughter what she would most love to see will give you a better idea too---with the help from some travel books.

Good luck with plans.

I agree with the recommendation to spend more than 2 to 3 days in London. You could visit Oxford from there as a day trip.
Then pick one or two other areas to explore in the same general direction (ie York, Edinburgh or Bath, Cornwall)

I think you will enjoy late spring more than November/December (Ah to be in England, etc. --although the one time we were in England and Scotland in April we were unable to visit the Lake district due to an unusual late snow...)

It seems that staying in country house hotels w/o a car is going to be a problem.

Hi, agree you do need to do some more initial research, but first thoughts which might help you -
If you have the choice go late Spring. You are likely to get better weather, spring flowers, lambs in the fields, countryside looking beautiful etc. But also many sites outside London (including many National Trust properties, castles etc) close for the winter season (they close at the end of October and reopen at Easter). So late Spring makes more practical sense.
London to York is fine for a day trip by train (I live near York). Sure it would be a long day, but if you pick the right train it gets you from Kings Cross to York in less than 2 hours. Once you get to York you can be deep into the ancient city within minutes (on foot) and it's a very compact place so you could get to see lots in a day. Or you could stay overnight in York if that would suit you better. Then perhaps pick up a hire car and drive across the Dales to the Lake District (I know you aren't keen on cars but wouldn't suggest you do this any other way). Country character house hotels are often off the beaten track and again would need a car.
Or you could pick up a train again from York and head up to Edinburgh. This starts out as a fairly mundane train journey but then becomes stunning as the line hugs the east coast, with wonderful sea views, Holy Island etc.
Hope this helps your planning, but do give me a yell if you have any Yorkshire/York questions.

I would fly into London, spend 4 days there, take a train to york,spend one day and one night there, take a train to edinburgh and spend 3 days there.

Exactly how much time would you have?

I'd have to say that the Lake District in November/December would be cold, however if you are going in late spring it can be a beautiful time, if you hit the right weather.

since your title says "2 week" I'll assume you mean two weeks total (including travel to/from the UK)

If so, you only have about 11+ days "on the ground" for touring. That is not very long to cover even a few of the places on your wish list.

Certainly no enough time to cover from Edinburgh to Cornwall.

I'd suggest a few things to get you started deciding:

1) consider flying open jaw. That is flying into one city and home from another which saves having to backtrack. You could fly into London and out of Edinburgh or Glasgow (or vice versa)

2) late Spring will cost a bit more airfare-wise - but will give you MUCH longer days. In Edinburgh the sun is set by 3:30 p.m. in mid December.

3) some places like the Cotswolds do not have decent (barely any at all) rail service. So if you are sure you won't drive there will be limitations.

4) a reasonable 2 week itinerary might look something like:

day 1 flying overnight to London.
days 2-6 in London (day 2 will be partly a jet lag fog)
days 7-8 York
days 8-10 Edinburgh
days 11-13 a local tour from Edinburgh to see some of the highlands/scenery
day 14 fly home from Scotland.

If you are willing to drive - I'd make different recommendations.

Everyone has made excellent points. My girls are about the same age as your daughter and they LOVE the UK. We've toured Scotland by car and taken the train from London to places like Cardiff, Oxford, Salisbury (and Stonehenge), and York.

My recommendation is similar to janisj's, but I'd skip trying to see much of Scotland on THIS trip. There's simply not enough time, and you should go back to do the place justice. Our first London trip we spent 6 days and never even took a day trip, it was just that interesting and fun. So, here's what I'd suggest:

day 1 flying overnight to London.
days 2-8 in London (day 2 will be partly a jet lag fog) You can do a number of day trips from London on the train, such as Oxford, Hampton Court, Greenwich, Brighton...)
days 9-10 York (or could be 1 day - arrive in morning, stow luggage, leave in evening - it's 2 hours via train from London and 2 hours from Edinburgh. It is really nice in the evening though because it's not as crowded with day trippers)
days 11-13 Edinburgh
day 14 fly home from Scotland.

I'll put in some links to my trip reports with one or the other of my daughters because they might give you some idea of what the girls enjoyed:

London/Oxford/Cardiff/London for 8 days with my 21 year old daughter-
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=35016109

(Scotland)/York/Salisbury/London with 18 year old daughter (6 days in England)-
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34870457
(the Scotland part won't be as helpful because it's mostly Glasgow and we weren't exactly tourists)

London for 6 days with 17 year old daughter-
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34771547

Thanks for all of the help.
I'm thinking we may wait and go next fall-it will give us more time to plan and the leaves will be turning.

I've been to the UK twice-I was in London, York, Edinburgh, Bath-did a day trip with a small van tour to see the Cotswolds from Bath. I've never seen Cornwall or the Lake District so was considering that. I will definitely get back in the guide books-my last trip was in the fall of 1999.

I know everyone hates tours-me too in theory and I've managed trains-but are there any tours that aren't terrible?
I'd really like to stay places that are a bit more small village/rural but definitely don't want to be prodded and pushed like cattle. I'm also rather independent and don't want to have to make small talk with strangers at every turn. Are there tours with much more space/time to yourself?

Well, first I would do late spring. Nov/Dec the weather is cold, there's lots of rain, much of the outdoors is brown and crunchy and days are very short. In late spring you'll have much warmer weather, longer days and foliage and flower galore.

Second- you're trying to cover way too much territory. For 2 weeks I would pick 4 places - and then do day trips from them if you want - otherwise you'll spend the bulk of your time in trains/trains stations and finding and checking in/out of hotels.

Why not do London, York, Bath and Edinburgh? (To see the Cotswolds you really need to travel by car or foot - since the charm is in the many tiny villages and countryside - which has little public transit for tourists.

greystone

Re your question on whether there are tours that are more your type. You might consider planning most of the trip yourself, but using tour companies for day trips.

I've done it a couple of times (Austria and Germany) and it was actually easier and cheaper than doing it on my own. I will say, though, that one day was enough. There were so many things that I wanted to linger over, but at least it gives me an excuse to go back!

&quot;<i>I'd really like to stay places that are a bit more small village/rural</i>&quot;

That will be a problem if you want to take trains or tours. Most small/rural villages do not have train stations. And most also do not have hotels that take tour groups. So again, if it is rural you want you shoould consider driving.

And there really isn't time to squeeze in both the north (York and Scotland) and the south (Cornwall and anywhere)

So your next two decisions (after number of days and Spring or Fall) should be <b>1)</b> &quot;London and the north&quot; or &quot;London and the southwest&quot; and <b>2)</b> are you willing to drive at least part of the way??

Travelinwifey just did a tour of England and Wales with a private driver. Try putting her screen name in the search box to find her trip report.

Mr. Pickle and I spent two weeks in England and Wales in early May. My trip report is here in the Europe forum, and you can see our pictures at http://picasaweb.google.com/ElendilP...utTheUKMay2007

Lee Ann

&lt;&lt;I'm thinking we may wait and go next fall-it will give us more time to plan and the leaves will be turning.&gt;&gt;

Er no - November / December is winter - the trees will have lost their leaves. It will be short days.

In Scotland in early December you are looking at sunrise about 8.30 am and sunset before 4pm. B contrast in early may sunrise will be before 5am and sunset about 8pm.

You mentioned architecture and pretty places, obviously more daylight gives more time for 'pretty' things.

If you were more interested in theatre or other indoor things then I don't think the daylight would be so much of an issue.

I just returned from a 3 1/2 week tour of Southern England and Wales. Compared to the US, things are quite compact and you can cover alot of ground if you are willing to drive. Do bring a car seat for your little one though. I found the ones in England made me a bit uneasy. The ones in the US are just better made in my opinion (or maybe the ones the rental companies use are just cheap!)
I enjoyed time in London doing the very touristy things with my kids (ages 7 &amp; 3) as well as more everyday things. It really depends on what is on your &quot;must see&quot; list. The bus tours in London are expensive, but most allow you to get on and off and you can &quot;see&quot; (but not visit) the highlights in a day. Pick the 3 or 4 top spots and you can do London in a few days. Your money goes much further out of the city!!
I have been to Edinburgh and Inverness which were both lovely. On our most recent trip, we explored Wales instead of Scotland and I was blown away. We stayed a week in the Wye River valley (home of Tintern Abbey and the Forest of Dean) and it was stunning! I would choose to go to Wales again next trip hands-down!! It is easier to access from London too!
I have been in the UK 5 times. . .Feb, June-July, Sept twice, January. It is a trade off when to go. The weather tends to be much gloomier from November through March, but it is also less crowded. The summer is the best bet for weather, but people are everywhere and hotels are more expensive. It is all in how you look at it!
Good luck!

In the US, Fall doesn't mean Nov-Dec, but Sept-Nov. October is peak Fall.

I think you've got a lot of the good ideas (London, York, Oxford, etc.), but you can do day trips from London, as others mentioned to Oxford, Blenheim, etc. I've been to the Lake District and it was lovely, but I don't think you can do it very well without a car or private coach tour. There may be some of those around. Now I have done a private coach tour between Edinburgh and London which worked very well -- stopped in Lake District, Wordsworth's home in Grasmere, Stratford-on-Avon, Blenheim palace and Oxford, before London. It went quite well. There are definitely places that accept tour groups -- we stayed at a lovely inn on a lake in the Lake District. All tour groups aren't 100 people or anything like that.

Here is a link to travelinwifey's recent trip report - including the Peaks, the Cotswolds, and Cambridge (and I don't think any Wales, although the guide company is from Wales):
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=35064319

I personally don't think greystonefarm's 20 year old daughter will be very happy in a car seat