pawsha

Hi folks, We will be travelling from Australia to Canada. We want to see Vancouver, cruise up to Alaska and then do the Rocky Mountaineer,Jasper etc. The trip is expensive by tour Companies and I wondered if it is cheaper doing "Our-own-thing". If we go it alone, we thought we could zip over to Ontario and Quebec as well.
We have many friends who have gone with a tour group and really loved it but we have travelled throughout Europe on our own and we are not sure if the extra expense is worth it

toedtoes

Jasper to Toronto is about 2300 miles, so it's not really a "zip".

You might look at a flght option from Alberta to Ontario or Quebec, spend the last bit of your trip there and then fly back to Australia from Toronto or Montreal. Or possibly do Via Rail from Alberta to Ontario/Quebec.

If you've done the "our-own-thing" before and like it (or even prefer it), then I would say do it. Canada's not a difficult country to do tourless. There are a lot of threads about the Rockies here to give you some ideas.

brookwood

The Canadian Rockies are very easy to "do yourself." I have been there several times, and never would consider doing it any other way.

Alaska presents a problem because of the fact that the area around Juneau is not accessible by automobile. Even it were, the trip from Vancouver would be long.

There is a highway that goes to the main part of Alaska, but distances there are long and the road is subjected each year to the ravages of heaving and thawing.

The distance between Vancouver and Quebec is considerable because you nearly go across the whole North American continent. It would be somewhat comparable to going from Queensland to Perth, which is a non trivial distance in my book.

But in returning to western Canada, I see no reason to book a tour and be hauled around in one of those rolling tin cans and remain isolated from the environment.

I took a bus tour like that of Ireland because neither my wife nor I at our age wanted to chance learning to drive on the left side of the road. I regretted the decision. I don't even remember some of the hotels we were housed in.

One of them I do remember, the Earl of Desmond in Tralee. I was memorable because of 3 events.
First, the toilet handle was in the shower. Second, the hotel ran out of hot water during the morning showers. Third, the last night we were there a wedding party broke up about 3 am. The noise in the parking lot touched off a fairly lively exchange between hotel guests and the revelers in the parking lot.

I don't always understand the Australian and New Zealand slang (there were several people from both nations on the tour), but it sounded very juicy. I did get some of the more profane comments, but they were actually funny.

The woman in the room next to us was about 6 feet, 2 inches tall and ran a sheep ranch on the South Island.
She invited one character up from the parking lot for a sound thrashing. Only her invitation was couched in slightly more crude terms. Something to do with flattening his posterior, only she used another term or two.

Aramis

Do you "zip" over to Perth from Sydney? You are talking about the same distance from Jasper to Toronto. That's a 4 hour drive to Edmonton and a 4 hour flight. Montreal is another 6 hour drive.

I would go it alone. The number of great things to see and the desire to just stop and drink in some place that catches your fancy means that a tour would be stifling, imho.

SallyCanuck

How long do you intend to be here?

You can do both - some on your own and some via tours.

Vancouver is easy on your own using public transport or walking. You can also take the ferry to Victoria on Vancouver Island.

As mentioned Alaska is not easy on your own, but you could take an Alaska cruise, usually 7 days out of Vancouver - my sister and I did it - don't sign up for any extra side trips except maybe the one out of Skagway that takes you into the Yukon - the tour leader on that bus was very knowledgeable about the history of the Yukon. The rest of the stops the ship makes are easily done on foot. Some of those small towns have interesting local history museums.

If you don't want a formal cruise, there is a way, using B.C. ferries and Alaska ferries, to travel north. www.bcferries.com
http://www.akferry.org/


Once back in Vancouver, take the train to Jasper or rent a car and drive yourself through the mountains to Alberta and tour around on your own or, as an English cousin and I did (after we took the Rocky Mountaineer to Banff) - we stayed for a few days and took bus tours for a few hours out of our day and the rest of the time just enjoyed Banff.

Then you can fly from Calgary or take the train from Edmonton to Ontario. Via Rail doesn't run out of Calgary.

In Ontario, there's Ottawa with lots of keep you occupied; and Toronto; both places have good public transport. If you want to see life outside the cities, you'll be better off in a car.

There's also the train to Montreal and to Quebec city for the 400th anniversary of the founding.

If you want to see life outside the cities in either province, you'll be better off in a car.

pawsha

Thank-you for your replies.
We would be travelling in March/April for at least 4 weeks.
The 7 day Alaskan cruise from Vancouver sounds perfect.
As we are aged in our prime ( late 60's) I dont particularly want to drive. Wrong side of the road for us and the driver usually misses a lot of the scenery.
Is the public transport system workable for tourists?
We would want to see Banff and Lake Louise.
Cheers Pawsha

SallyCanuck

Well, I don't think there is an Alaska cruise in March or April - they start in early May.

Anyway, once you get to Banff and area (via Rocky Mountaineer) or Jasper with Via Rail (www.viarail.ca which doesn't go to Banff) you can use Brewster tours to get around. http://www.brewster.ca/ - there are possibly other tour companies.

If you start in Jasper, there is a bus to Lake Louise and Banff - I think it's Greyhound but it's not frequent.

Banff has a local bus but depending on where you stay you can walk in the town.

There are tours that combine an Alaska cruise and the Rockies http://www.alaskacruises.com/canadia...ruisetours.asp.

Vancouver, Quebec City, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal - public transit will be no problem.

ShelliDawn

What are you hoping to see/do in Banff/Lake Louise?

In March/April there should still be downhill skiing available (but not guaranteed) and cross-country skiing is usually over by the end of March.

It will be too early for hiking and other summer activities. The hiking season doesn't start until mid-May at the earliest and many trails are still snow bound until June.

laverendrye

pawsha: I don't know how much you have investigated possible tours, but as ShelliDawn has pointed out, the Alaska cruises don't run in March and April, and outside of skiing and winter sports, most of the attractions in Banff and Jasper parks will be inaccessible because of the snow. As well, I don't think that the Rocky Mountaineer runs until late April, and the Icefields Parkway between Banff and Jasper will either be closed or travel at risk.

For an example of the tours available in the Rockies, check with Brewsters, the main tour company in the area:

http://www.sightseeingtourscanada.ca/default.aspx

If you are set on coming in March and April, I'd concentrate on Vancouver, Victoria and the lower mainland of BC. A day or two in Whistler would get you into the mountains. Skiing continues there well into May (even later on the glacier).

Finally, as others have pointed out, you don't zip over to ONtario and Quebec, but if you have the time, you could certainly split your trip between eastern and western Canada by flying to Toronto or Montreal from Vancouver and home to Australia from the east.

krp329

March/April is still very much winter here in the Rockies. Skiing last until almost the end of April at most areas (one in Banff goes well into May). Some of the paid attractions, as well as some access roads, in the Rockies national parks are not open during the winter, but many of the natural attractions are accessible - and are just as beautiful, no matter what time of the year. The famous glacial lakes with their turquoise waters - Louise, Maligne, Moraine, Bow, Peyto etc. - will be frozen over until early June though.

The advantage to coming in winter is that prices for accommodation and restaurants are significantly cheaper.

VIA Rail - www.viarail.ca - runs year round. It is possible to take the "Skeena" train from Jasper to Prince Rupert and catch the Inside Passage ferry from there to Port Hardy, Vancouver Island. We did this trip in early March last year and it was beautiful.... we did a circle route - Jasper to Prince Rupert to Van. Is to Vancouver, then VIA train from Vancouver back to Jasper.

bob_brown

I really think you are picking the wrong time of year to visit the Canadian Rockies and Alaska.

I have been to the Rockies many times as a tourist and I can tell you that high altitude lakes are frozen until late June, even early July, as a general rule.

By high altitude I mean anything higher than about 1700 meters.

There is a saying about the Rockies by those who write on the subject with depth of knowledge: "When its spring time in the Rockies, stay away." And spring runs late compared to where I live in the southeastern US.

I would not consider being there until after June 15 at the earliest.

As for trying to see the Rockies with public transportation, I don't think that is a good plan. Brewster does run a lot of tours, but I know very little about them.

I can understand your feeling about the wrong side of the road. We had the same reaction to trying to drive in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and England. We took "canned tours" just once, in a large bus, and said "Never again." For Wales and Scotland we went with Back Roads Touring which uses small vans and specializes in tour groups that are small, like one of our groups had 6 people total and we had input into what we did that day.

I felt like we got a good tour, but still not quite the do-it-yourself feeling we get when doing it on our own.

TracyB

I definately would choose a different time of the year to visit Canada..perhaps the end of May or June..Sometimes there is still ton's of snow in March, especially in Alberta.

Last March, Toronto had such a big blizzard they closed the airport for at least a day.

It can be absolutely freezing in Canada in March and even April.

Plus as someone stated, there is no Alaskan cruise until May.

Anyways, i don't know if i would take a tour in Canada...but if u do..i used to work for a company called Nagel Tours, based out of Edmonton..and they have several tours in Canada...I would check them out.

Good luck in planning your Canadian trip!!

krp329

Bob Brown, I'm not sure that Canada needs any extra help in maintaining our reputation for being cold. ;-)

The high elevation glacial lakes in the Rockies - Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Bow Lake, Maligne Lake, Bow Lake, Peyto Lake etc. - are all thawed by early June, usually no later than the first week, and some years, the lower of these will be thawed by around the 24th of May. (so "late May, early June" would be an accurate estimate). This spring has been cool and grey and plants/flowers are at least two weeks behind their more usual bloom times, but the boat cruises on Maligne Lake, for instance, began running on June 3rd. Last year, it was June 4th. Maligne is at 1700m, as is Lake Louise. Moraine is pretty much the highest of the ones that are accessible by car - it's at 7000 feet, or roughly 2100 m.

Certainly many of the high-elevation hiking trails are snowbound into early July - and certainly, any of those lake can have snowfall any month of the year. Maligne Lake got 15 cm of snow on June 7th this year, and the higher hiking trails there, Opal Hills and the Bald Hills, are, sadly, still snowbound.

almcd

I would have to agree that
March/April is absolutely the wrong time for you to be seeing Canada. Vancouver would be fine then, with the Spring flowers and blossom out, but the rest of the country could be diabolical. Montreal, for example, had 5 feet of snow on the ground well into May. Can you not change your dates until September. At that time, the worst of the Summer rush is over and the scenery is at its best. The Rocky Mountaineer train trip is fabulous and should not be missed. Look at the trip called "The Western Explorer" for a week of spectacular scenery IN SEPTEMBER!!

pawsha

Thanks for all your help.
I thought Mar/April sounded okay but obviously September is better - so September it will be.
I will get back when I have some idea of our Itinerary . Incidently, to "Zip over" in Aust. means to get from A to B in the quickest possible time, in this case, by Air.

Cheers Pawsha

bob_brown

I guess I should have said how high above 1700 meters. In the quest of more precision, I will revise my figure to above 1900 meters. I don't wish to engage in a polemic over a relatively minor issue.

When I said above 1700 meters, or about 6,000 feet, I excluded in my mind Lake Louise because it is right at 1700 meters.

Moraine Lake is a little higher than I recalled; it is about 1880 meters.

Does it thaw 100% before June 10 or so? If it does then the above 1900 revision covers it. When I have seen Moraine Lake in late June it was thawed.

Bow Lake is a little higher than I thought it was at 1960. It is perhaps an exception because so much of it gets prolonged sun exposure.

Peyto is down in a hole, about 300 meters below the view point, so it is at about 1700.

Lake McArthur is 2250 or 7380 feet. I have seen it about 80% - 85% frozen over in early July. Granted the ice sheet was thin and full of cracks and areas of open water were appearing almost visibly the sunny day I was there. The same is true of Opabin, which is at am altitude 2285 meters, about the same as McArthur. It too had ice sheets, but also areas of open water in early July.

Emerald Lake is 1300 meters so it is definitely excluded. And Malign is less than 1700 meters.

So based on those figures I revise my above 1700 meter figure to above 1900. The original statement was a little too broad and 1700 meters too low.

Orcas

August/September is the BEST time for the Pacific NW. Good choice! I was going to suggest the US SW as an alternative trip if you had to go in the springtime!