Hello all,<BR>I've been reading all these posts and, until now, have kept my mouth shut. No one can dispute that Liz, Alan, Mina, Marg, Aussie, Carolyn and many others have consistently offered their advice (read: opinions!) and have helped numerous travellers--myself being one!!<BR><BR>It is mighty unrealistic to think that every traveller will agree on a particular hotel/tour/restaurant/destination, whatever--but that's not the fault of the one giving advice! We all have different expectations! We, the readers, need to decide for ourselves if that hotel/tour/restaurant/destination meets our criteria. (And keep in mind, things change!)<BR><BR>Name calling and finger-pointing serves no useful purpose. CAN WE JUST GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF TRAVEL NOW? I, for one, would enjoy that.<BR><BR>Thank you for hearing me out.<BR>Debbie L.

Hello all,<BR>I've been reading all these posts and, until now, have kept my mouth shut...<BR><BR>No one can dispute that Liz, Alan, Mina, Marg, Aussie, Carolyn and many others have consistently offered their advice (read: opinions!) and have helped numerous travellers--myself being one!!<BR><BR>It is mighty unrealistic to think that every traveller will agree on a particular hotel/tour/restaurant/destination, whatever--but that's not the fault of the one giving advice! We all have different expectations! We, the readers, need to decide for ourselves if that hotel/tour/restaurant/destination meets our criteria. (And keep in mind, things change!)<BR><BR>Name calling and finger-pointing serves no useful purpose. CAN WE JUST GET BACK TO THE BUSINESS OF TRAVEL NOW? I, for one, would enjoy that.<BR><BR>Thank you for hearing me out.<BR>Debbie L.

Hello again,<BR>I hit 'post' and then 'stop' as I realized that I wanted to fix something...guess it was too late! I wasn't trying to reinforce my point!<BR><BR>Have a nice day,<BR>Debbie

A few things:<BR><BR>1. My name is John; I am a different John from the rude one who posted earlier.<BR><BR>2. I just got back from my first trip to Australia, which I planned with the help of this amazing message board.<BR><BR>3. Throughout the planning process, I relied heavily on Alan's numerous posts. I found them to be unbelievably helpful and polite. Is there such a thing as a message-board saint? If so, Alan is one. And when I got to Australia, I found that eact of his recommendations--every last one--was on-the-money.<BR><BR>4. One of those recommendations was the Russell, which I absolutely loved. The nocturnal noise, I admit, was a problem. But doesn't that come with the territory--a budget accomodation in the heart of the tourist district? Otherwise, the rooms were beautiful; the price was wonderful; the breakfast was generous and tasty enough to allow us to skip lunch each day; and the location and charm just couldn't be beat. I wish every hotel I stayed in over the last three weeks had been as nice as the Russell was.

Well if you want to be really happy stay at the Park Hyatt! It is the best, and believe me, no noise! Perfect hotel.

Holy smoke! All I did was go for two days without posting at this board, and I come back to look at the Russell post (which, I think, had FOUR responses two days ago), and there's twenty-four responses and everyone is yelling at each other and suddenly I am in the middle of a controversy! All it was, after all, was a person who didn't like the Russell in spite of my recommendations. Where's the big deal? No one on this board -- not Liz, not Mina, not Icuy, not myself -- has EVER claimed that we wanted to replace travel agents or that we knew everything about everything. All we want to do is to use our knowledge, however useful that may be, to give the readers a look at the things the travel agents DON'T tell you, so that you'll get a fuller view. OK, so I didn't mention the lack of an elevator at the Ruseell, but surely that's the kind of question you ask, not a Fodor's poster, but the hotel when you make the booking (same about such features as the mini-bar, hairdrier, ironing board, and clock radio, which I don't think I've evr bothered to mention, either) -- or ask your travel agent... or find out by looking at the website (www.holidaycity.com/russell-sydney... I have typed it so often into this forum that I know it off by heart). You will see a picture of the hotel there, and it is perfectly obvious from its size and age that it wouldn't have an elevator... it's smaller than your local McDonalds, and obviously was already an old building when Mr Otis uttered his first cry. I really do regret that my failure to mention the elevator caused our original poster some distress... but the reason I recommend the Russell is because it is the kind of hotel that you may not ever hear about from most of the official travel agents, who get their cutbacks from the chains. Same with some of my other recommendations... the Grand, the Criterion (no elevator there, either!), the Lord Nelson Brewery, and the Palisade. My good words on these hotels does not mean I am trying to act like the country's great know-it-all... fact is, I have never been farther than the lobby in any of them! But do you think your travel agent HAS, in the case of his recommendations? <BR>This thread has, I think, become extremely upsetting... I am reading harsh words from people I have come to admire, sometimes directed at each other, and it is just not in the holiday spirit, which is what this whole forum is about. I have often said that the reason I post to this forum has been that when I have travelled to different places, I have frequently been touched by the people -- ordinary people with nothing to gain -- who have come forward and helped me not to get ripped off. That's why I post here... to repay in kind. My aim is to show you that it is possible to holiday in Sydney without it costing you a fortune. Of course I like it when people agree with my advice, but I don't expect that everyone will, or should. I think that Deb did, in fact, have a bit of a "rum go" at the Russell, having her shuttle summarily cancelled..... but I don't think that constitutes being ripped off, and I hope she would be honest enough to admit that, in spite of the shortcomings which she identified in the Russell's treatment of her, it certainly doesn't reflect badly on myself or any one else on this forum.... the Russell may not be perfect, but it's not what you'd call a rip-off, Deb, is it? <BR>Boy! This is the first time I ever typed a post to this forum with my hands shaking! I bet Deb never dreamed that her simple little post would cause such a ruckus! Deb, how about if next time you stay at the Russell I meet you there and carry your bags upstairs for you?

Liz, you give me some good advise prior to my trip to Australia & I appreciated that but it appears if someone doesn't agree with you they are tagged as an "ugly American". You are not exactly maintaining a civil tongue in your mouth - does that mean you are an "ugly Australian". I think all should "cool it" Deb simply give her opinion, I do it, others do it, & all opinions certainly shouldn't be all glorious endorsements. I, for one appreciate Deb's opinion. What good would this site be without good & bad opinions. Liz, believe it or not there are places in Australia that are not over the top. I want to read the good & the bad from other travelers. This is a place a person supplements his/her travel ideas & plans. Alan received the response he did because of his comment concerning "his two story house" which I thought was uncalled for & with that type of comment you should expect the response that was rendered. I think Alan overall gives good advise but sometimes we all tend to be too glib with our words not really intending to insult or demean. One last comment for the person that was ashamed to be an American. Well I am ashamed you are an American. But what the hell, a lot of folks give their lives so you can say what you want - if you have traveled anywhere you have surely encountered rude along with kind people, including Australia, so let's not stick labels just because you are "ashamed", but you certainly are entitled to your opinion.

Alan:<BR>We share something in common. I too am flabberghasted at the response to this thread. <BR><BR>I think it's apology time. I do regret my remarks regarding your naivete' and credibility. I was way out of line. Since my posting I have reviewed some of the advice you have given on other postings and find them quite helpful.<BR><BR>Sorry for the gaffe. Please accept my apology.<BR><BR>John

I am yet another John so don't jump on me. <BR>I just want to say that the term Ugly American is usually given for those people who just don't seem to be happy with anything that is not American and comments with a snide inference i.e. <BR>Deb's comment to Alan of:<BR>"Overall, other than location, this place has nothing going for it (unless old creaky staircase and shabby looking rooms counts as "charm" to you)". <BR>Nor do I see where anyone "disagreed" with Liz. What I see is that Liz was incensed with the response from John to Alan when that was totally uncalled for and also the tone of Deb's post, again to Alan. There was nothing anywhere to disagree with Liz, because it was not she who wrote the advice in the first place, so why people are taking that defensive stance I don't know. <BR>Perhaps this is a cultural thing or even more likely to be a Young and the Restless ( American) or Home and Away ( Australian) type of behaviour and attack which seems to be the norm in society now.<BR>I must say though that the first John was humble in his apology and I for one thank him for that and I am sure that Alan will take it as offered. <BR>I would like though to say that if someone like Deb wrote a post in the form that she did inferring that my help was bad then I too would be mightily miffed and I would not be inclined to offer information any further to this forum.<BR><BR>

so everyone said sorry. that's nice. liz hasn't said anything, or has she? at least one of the above messages sounds a lot like her.

Let's get this right O.K. For the second John, Deb didn't say Alan's advise was bad. I believe the phrase that included "charm to you" was strictly generic. The lst John smacked Alan for his comment, which I believe was not meant to belittle but did. Liz got wracked because it seems like when one is of an opposing opinion from hers she turns around & fires a salvo at all the faults of the other person's country. The dialogue on this particular post is pretty lousy. It is not the caliber of stuff you usually read on this site. It appears many are indicating Deb is the varmint but she isn't. I will say it for the last time, she stated what happened to her - period. She gave her opinion of what happened to her - period. Is there none of you that have paid good money for something that was, in your opinion, not up to par & have never uttered a word of complaint. If this site is going to turn into an, "oh golly, everything was so wonderful" site, then it certainly isn't fully serving its purpose. Ahem.

Yes Bill is right, you should be able to complain and my complaint is that when I went to America and had a few problems I did write a trip report on the US site and was absolutely lamblasted by Americans en-masse.<BR>

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a difference between critiquing a hotel and denegrating another person because they have a differing opinion?<BR><BR>Isn't that what has most of you hot and bothered?<BR><BR>Maybe it's time for everyone to chill out and have a nice, cold beer! What's the nicest beer in Oz? I'll take the first shout <BR><BR>Isn't life too short to be getting our panties in a wad???<BR><BR>

And on & on we go. Are we going to turn this into an American vs Aussie battle? I hope not because I think there are a lot of nice folks in both places. I met a lot of friendly & accommodating folks in Australia - it was one of our best vacations. I am sure mums that many folks obtained some good info from your complaints about some things concerning your trip to the U.S. You are always going to have some that are going to lamblast you for whatever comments you may render, however many more are going to derive some benefit from you comments - that's just the nature of the beast. I live in Alaska which is a great place to visit but it's not perfect nor is everyone who lives here perfect. I am sure some tourists who visit us have had some unsatisfactory experiences which should be stated to make others aware. Then they can follow that advise or ignore it. Those of us who are serious are seeking comments on this site concerning other peoples experiences, good or bad, in addition to all the very gracious advice.

Right on, ay yay yay. I'll take a Kilkenny. I can't find a bottle of that good brew up here in Alaska.

WHOOOOAAAAAAA!!!! <BR>Have just read through this shit fight and man.... theres no need for any of it. This message board is so good usually, everyone helps out for the common good and you cant put a price on good advice.The generosity of spirit is usually a beautiful thing.<BR>As the regards the "ugly" name calling. There is good and bad in every race- aussies included.<BR>Why dont you all focus on the positive results that this board achives, and chalk up the little errors to experience...coz noones perfect!<BR>

To the "original" John: An apology is, as far as I am concerned, quite unnecessary -- I mean, you didn't exactly give me a two-word instruction, such I received once on the US forum, did you? -- but nonetheless was graciously offered and is gratefully accepted. I tell you, this forum is getting more exciting than watching Judge Judy!

Ok, Bill, a Kilkenny it is...Which state brews that? I think I'll order a lovely Cascade from Tassie. It's tasty <BR><BR>(By the way, Alaska's a great place. I'm not up for the brutal winters but that was another holiday that I loooved!) <BR><BR>Cheers!

Isn't Kilkenny Irish? I think a James squire or James Boag would be in order - both good Tassie brews.<BR>Now chill everybody & take a big gulp...

buuuurrrpp.....!