great barrier reef, a big disappoinment?
Apr 28th, 2006, 09:56 PM
#23
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hi
you must be an outdoor, outdoor person to do australia for a month and the great barrier reef as a major stop. you are bound to have a great time! believe you me you will not be disappointed! one cannot compare the barrier reef to anyhing else! ofcourse to have an experience of a lifetime do the snorkelling and scuba diving from cape trib and not from cairns which will be rushed and packed. we did it from cape trib and took the odeyssey H2O. check them out..and you will know what professionalism and hospitality is all about!i who cant swim to save my life snorkelled for over 45 mins at the barrier reefat a strech. awesiome would be an understatement and the marine life is to be seen to be believed..the colors, the hues, reefs and corals apart from the living sea creatures.... you feel you have died and gone to heaven! one cannot even compare the great barrier reef to anything. period!
enjoy!
Apr 29th, 2006, 02:16 AM
#24
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Like a few others I have been wondering what living in Asia for 2 years got to do with being able to decide between Fiji and the GBR.
Since your initial posting I have deliberately chatted with a few friends who have indeed lived in Asia and did some diving and snorkeling in different locations there - particularly off Thailand, Penang and Sandakan. Some also have been to Fiji.
And this is what they said:
In Asia, fish are often lured to a snorkelling location by feeding them food. Hence you'd see schools of fish swimming around looking for a feed, or even in a feeding frenzy.
But the corals are always in pitiful condition (in comparison with the GBR). The only shades of colors are white and murky grey. They showed me lots of pics to demonstrate their points.
Most operators in the GBR on the other hands are responsible environmentalists, often with marine biologists at hand. Food tossed into water, while attracting fish would also damage the corals. So it's a definite no no. You'd see fish the GBR in their normal habitat - and in my experience, you'd get to see a huge range of fascinating marine life in all hue of colors. And the corals (if you pick a reputable operator) would be pristine.
Fiji is closer to what you'd get in Asia than in the GBR. You'd see more fish hanging around hoping for a feed. So if you are after the type of snorkelling they have in Asia, then pick Fiji.
10 times out of 10, I myself would pick the GBR for snorkelling.
Since your initial posting I have deliberately chatted with a few friends who have indeed lived in Asia and did some diving and snorkeling in different locations there - particularly off Thailand, Penang and Sandakan. Some also have been to Fiji.
And this is what they said:
In Asia, fish are often lured to a snorkelling location by feeding them food. Hence you'd see schools of fish swimming around looking for a feed, or even in a feeding frenzy.
But the corals are always in pitiful condition (in comparison with the GBR). The only shades of colors are white and murky grey. They showed me lots of pics to demonstrate their points.
Most operators in the GBR on the other hands are responsible environmentalists, often with marine biologists at hand. Food tossed into water, while attracting fish would also damage the corals. So it's a definite no no. You'd see fish the GBR in their normal habitat - and in my experience, you'd get to see a huge range of fascinating marine life in all hue of colors. And the corals (if you pick a reputable operator) would be pristine.
Fiji is closer to what you'd get in Asia than in the GBR. You'd see more fish hanging around hoping for a feed. So if you are after the type of snorkelling they have in Asia, then pick Fiji.
10 times out of 10, I myself would pick the GBR for snorkelling.
Apr 29th, 2006, 04:37 AM
#25
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Exactly, eschlaton! Very strict rules on fish feeding on GBR trips, also commercial fishing bans on a great part of it. Operators are hugely aware of this, any deviation will result in them having permits cancelled.
I noticed this in Bali too, snorkelling/dive operators doing their best to attract fishes when they'd dug up live coral reefs to build sea-walls. Its sad, but these countries, Fiji included, just don't have the finances, or long term interest in sustaining their reef systems.
I noticed this in Bali too, snorkelling/dive operators doing their best to attract fishes when they'd dug up live coral reefs to build sea-walls. Its sad, but these countries, Fiji included, just don't have the finances, or long term interest in sustaining their reef systems.
May 9th, 2006, 11:56 AM
#26
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Let me try to summarize the dominant view in this thread about the choice between GBR and Fiji:
You are completely sure that any intelligent person should choose GBR, because it has better snorkeling.
You can´t conceive how someone might find it more attractive to get in touch with a different cultural environment.
You are not sure if these third world people, Fiji ones included, are just poorer, or if most of them don´t make an effort to sustain their reef systems because they are too lazy or too stupid.
You are completely sure that any intelligent person should choose GBR, because it has better snorkeling.
You can´t conceive how someone might find it more attractive to get in touch with a different cultural environment.
You are not sure if these third world people, Fiji ones included, are just poorer, or if most of them don´t make an effort to sustain their reef systems because they are too lazy or too stupid.
May 10th, 2006, 01:45 PM
#27
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I thought the question here was to do with snorkelling and diving, not cultural differences. Fiji Islands are populated mainly by Fijians, Indians and Europeans, Far North Queensland's, whilst of predominantly Caucasian extraction is home to many Australian Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders, another cultural difference.
May 10th, 2006, 07:18 PM
#28
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I agree with Pat - 1111 seems to have constructed straw man to shoot at. The original poster at no stage expressed any desire to "get in touch with a different cultural environment". As far as I can see he's looking for good diving and snorkeling.
The responses so far have tried to address his concerns, and some have noted environmentally destructive practices in some countries that could well detract from a visitor's enjoyment of a reef experience. Nobody was disparaging Fijians or anyone else.
The responses so far have tried to address his concerns, and some have noted environmentally destructive practices in some countries that could well detract from a visitor's enjoyment of a reef experience. Nobody was disparaging Fijians or anyone else.
May 10th, 2006, 08:10 PM
#29
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I haven't read all the responses, but one thing and someone may have already said this - but I think it bears mentioning that the Great Barrier Reef is in fact one of the seven wonders of the natural world.....so I think that speaks for itself - don't see Fiji on that list.
May 10th, 2006, 09:07 PM
#30
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1111, the point of a forum is for each individual speak their mind and give a response based on their experiences, preferences or personal tastes. Often telling others their own stories throught their personal grids. As such a forum is the most postmodern of all conversational mediums. There is no moderator who finally confers absolute truth on one view or another.
Sometimes, as in this thread, a clear majority might express a particular preference - and those who diagree should not feel slighted or imagine that the others are claiming greater intelligence.
Hence I was careful to say '10 times out of 10 I myself would chose GBR'. No one on this thread ever said, 'an intelligent person would....'
Your point about cultures. I checked and discovered that you are currently passionate about travelling to places of different cultures. I am fascinated by cultures as well. I am looking forward to taking my family to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore next month. (If fact, only yesterday I was with a migrant from your part of the world. He told me there are 20,000 portuguese speaking Brazilians currently living in Sydney, mostly in the south).
But as pointed out, this thread is about diving and snorkelling.
It is a good point nonetheless that Fiji does offer a different cultural experience - and this has been very elegantly put by CotswoldScouser, whose contribution, I suspect, has been greatly appreciated by everyone here.
As for the point about the environment - people chose not to take the long term view of things, often not because they are 'not interested or 'lazy' or are 'too stupid' but because of unfortunately economic pressures, or lack of leadership by their government. Those notions are not implied in anything said here. When a poster expresses pity on them it is out of concern for the environment and their long term interest.
1111, hope you have a nice trip to our part of the world, and after you have done so, please do post a message here and tell us your story.
Sometimes, as in this thread, a clear majority might express a particular preference - and those who diagree should not feel slighted or imagine that the others are claiming greater intelligence.
Hence I was careful to say '10 times out of 10 I myself would chose GBR'. No one on this thread ever said, 'an intelligent person would....'
Your point about cultures. I checked and discovered that you are currently passionate about travelling to places of different cultures. I am fascinated by cultures as well. I am looking forward to taking my family to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore next month. (If fact, only yesterday I was with a migrant from your part of the world. He told me there are 20,000 portuguese speaking Brazilians currently living in Sydney, mostly in the south).
But as pointed out, this thread is about diving and snorkelling.
It is a good point nonetheless that Fiji does offer a different cultural experience - and this has been very elegantly put by CotswoldScouser, whose contribution, I suspect, has been greatly appreciated by everyone here.
As for the point about the environment - people chose not to take the long term view of things, often not because they are 'not interested or 'lazy' or are 'too stupid' but because of unfortunately economic pressures, or lack of leadership by their government. Those notions are not implied in anything said here. When a poster expresses pity on them it is out of concern for the environment and their long term interest.
1111, hope you have a nice trip to our part of the world, and after you have done so, please do post a message here and tell us your story.
May 11th, 2006, 10:17 AM
#31
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Thank you, eschaton.
I didn´t want to sound like it was a personal attack, but my post was aimed at a specific person who showed some arrogance in her comments concerning “these third world countries”.
I sensed that arrogance again in her new post. She can´t concede a trip to Fiji might have any “advantage” at all over GBR. I suspect CotswoldScouser contribution has been greatly appreciated by everyone here, but one person.
I didn´t want to sound like it was a personal attack, but my post was aimed at a specific person who showed some arrogance in her comments concerning “these third world countries”.
I sensed that arrogance again in her new post. She can´t concede a trip to Fiji might have any “advantage” at all over GBR. I suspect CotswoldScouser contribution has been greatly appreciated by everyone here, but one person.
May 11th, 2006, 03:45 PM
#32
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Of course Fiji has different cultural experiences to Australia, I've been there three times and wouldn't have returned after the first had I not enjoyed it. The Fijian people are usually delightful to tourists, marvellous with children, and I also admire the hard-working Indian population of Fiji. But this has nothing to do with the merits of each country's reefs.
And I'd be the first to admit that there are some over-used reef sites on Great Barrier Reef, as CotswoldScouser discovered, particularly out of Cairns and Port Douglas where there's several boats which take 300-450 people. Fortunately there's a wide choice and visitors can make up their own minds on what type of reef experience they prefer.
And I'd be the first to admit that there are some over-used reef sites on Great Barrier Reef, as CotswoldScouser discovered, particularly out of Cairns and Port Douglas where there's several boats which take 300-450 people. Fortunately there's a wide choice and visitors can make up their own minds on what type of reef experience they prefer.
May 12th, 2006, 01:20 PM
#33
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1111 You talk of cultural differences, well one rather large cultural difference between Australians and Americans is that we, in Australia, ALWAYS say what we mean and mean what we say, we are not dictated in any way by post modernest political correctness which has been started by and continued in your country to the detriment of truth and reality and even good government. To shoot the messenger for stating what is fact because of your different cultural leanings is rude at best and particularly short sighted at worst as you are going to come to Australia you will find that you are walking to a different tune from the rest of us. We Australians are the most friendly nation on earth, we try and accept people's differences without the dictates of current political convention as it is not in our nature to be otherwise but we do this without personal attacks which, when done to someone you don't know and to someone who was only trying to help, p....s us off big time. If you wish to make those sort of comments may I suggest that you just focus on NZ for your travel as you won't fit in here.
The simple fact is: Fiji is a third world country, it's conservation practices are not acceptable to the World at large and whether it is because of getting the $ here and now at the risk to the environment in the future, lack of money or shortsightedness is neither here nor there. Fact is fact
The simple fact is: Fiji is a third world country, it's conservation practices are not acceptable to the World at large and whether it is because of getting the $ here and now at the risk to the environment in the future, lack of money or shortsightedness is neither here nor there. Fact is fact
May 12th, 2006, 02:17 PM
#34
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Liz, I'm sorry, but as a fellow Australian I'm not at all comfortable with your paean of praise to all things Australian, so include me out.
Like everybody we have our share of devious, shifty people who don't say what they mean and we have our unfriendly curmudgeons too. I'm not sure what post-modernism has to do with this, but that doctrine started in France, not the US.
One of my grandmother's favourite maxims was "self-praise is no recommendation!" While it pains me to say this, a hyperbolic statement like "We Australians are the most friendly nation on earth, we try and accept people's differences without the dictates of current political convention as it is not in our nature to be otherwise" is, frankly, embarrassing rubbish. "The lady protests too much, methinks."
Like everybody we have our share of devious, shifty people who don't say what they mean and we have our unfriendly curmudgeons too. I'm not sure what post-modernism has to do with this, but that doctrine started in France, not the US.
One of my grandmother's favourite maxims was "self-praise is no recommendation!" While it pains me to say this, a hyperbolic statement like "We Australians are the most friendly nation on earth, we try and accept people's differences without the dictates of current political convention as it is not in our nature to be otherwise" is, frankly, embarrassing rubbish. "The lady protests too much, methinks."
May 12th, 2006, 04:21 PM
#35
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Sorry if my reaction was a bit on the strenuous side, Liz, but as you might have guessed one of the things that really gets up my nose is Australians (or anyone else) big-noting themselves. I mean, its ... it's un-Australian!
-Neil
-Neil
May 12th, 2006, 05:48 PM
#36
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Thanks Neil,
I thought Liz's comments a bit high-handed. I like to think we Canucks are pretty friendly too. I spent a lot of my childhood in Australia and have been a Canadian for many years now. I love both places , though you have far better weather! We found Australians to be very friendly tho' on occasion some were a little standoffish if they thought we were American. You are right, no country is perfect. Those us living the high life in the first world should be very grateful that sitting in front of a computer pondering travel plans with like-minded people occupies some of our time. The Reef rocks!
I thought Liz's comments a bit high-handed. I like to think we Canucks are pretty friendly too. I spent a lot of my childhood in Australia and have been a Canadian for many years now. I love both places , though you have far better weather! We found Australians to be very friendly tho' on occasion some were a little standoffish if they thought we were American. You are right, no country is perfect. Those us living the high life in the first world should be very grateful that sitting in front of a computer pondering travel plans with like-minded people occupies some of our time. The Reef rocks!
May 12th, 2006, 10:43 PM
#37
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Liz is one of those Aussies who is willing to 'accept people's differences without the dictate of current political convention' - unless of course you differ with her on that point!!
However, 1111, Liz does have a point about the poster you had issue with. She is more likely to bake you a pavlova should you visit her at Cairns than to indulge in hubris over other cultures.
