Calling non-US citizens: Which US Pres. candidate would you vote for?
Mar 27th, 2008, 05:37 AM
#1
Calling non-US citizens: Which US Pres. candidate would you vote for?
There's a thread in the Fodorite Lounge asking non-US citizens which Presidential candidate they'd vote for. Quite a few US citizens are looking forward to your response.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...=5&start=0
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...=5&start=0
Mar 27th, 2008, 03:46 PM
#3
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Thanks, schuler. I've posted my comments on the Lounge thread.
Jed, good idea. I'm more than happy for Americans to debate our political scene (which would give the lie to the other recent thread on the Lounge about Americans' alleged lack of interest in other countries affairs
)
Jed, good idea. I'm more than happy for Americans to debate our political scene (which would give the lie to the other recent thread on the Lounge about Americans' alleged lack of interest in other countries affairs
)
Mar 29th, 2008, 02:59 AM
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If you US people elect another Republican, then as far as I am concerned you are gone.
The policies of the last Dubya years have just reinforced my antipathy to your country with its laiser faire atttitude to big business and its gung ho (we are the masters now) reponse to 9/11.
Once upon a timr I was an avid US watcher and student. I chose to study US history way back in the early '70s.
Now I am following the primaries with interest. Who is the better Democrat? Big question, but for us outsiders, the bigger one is not getting another right winger in the seat.
I prefer Hillary for her record of thinking and trying to do something about your nonexistent health service during Bill's first term.
Obama could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'd feel safer with Hillary.
But expect another Republican, because, let's face it, there are too many totally ignorant Americans out there with a vote.
The policies of the last Dubya years have just reinforced my antipathy to your country with its laiser faire atttitude to big business and its gung ho (we are the masters now) reponse to 9/11.
Once upon a timr I was an avid US watcher and student. I chose to study US history way back in the early '70s.
Now I am following the primaries with interest. Who is the better Democrat? Big question, but for us outsiders, the bigger one is not getting another right winger in the seat.
I prefer Hillary for her record of thinking and trying to do something about your nonexistent health service during Bill's first term.
Obama could be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'd feel safer with Hillary.
But expect another Republican, because, let's face it, there are too many totally ignorant Americans out there with a vote.
Mar 29th, 2008, 03:49 PM
#7
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I would not vote! Reason - it would just be nice to be in a country that allows you the democratic right to decide to only vote if YOU want to and not be forced to do so.
As for choices: I don't think we know enough about your policies or politicians to be able to give you any idea. However I probably would vote ( if I were going to vote) for Clinton in case she did a "payback" on her husband which would certainly be fun to see.
As for choices: I don't think we know enough about your policies or politicians to be able to give you any idea. However I probably would vote ( if I were going to vote) for Clinton in case she did a "payback" on her husband which would certainly be fun to see.
Mar 29th, 2008, 05:40 PM
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janine from venezuela... our next election if... it comes, is to get rid of autocratic bully 3° world banan republic hugo chávez, our absolute karma!
i like obama but i'm scared of charismatic inexperienced politics, with good reason. i think hillary disguises her femininity to be perceived as tough and that's a mistake IMO, so i don't know. besides i'm a libra it could take me ages to decide, don't you see my trip planning? ;> jj
i like obama but i'm scared of charismatic inexperienced politics, with good reason. i think hillary disguises her femininity to be perceived as tough and that's a mistake IMO, so i don't know. besides i'm a libra it could take me ages to decide, don't you see my trip planning? ;> jj
Mar 29th, 2008, 07:35 PM
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But I must say lavici, you do give helpful advice on travel! Lizzy, what a good point re Hillary's payback!At the beginning I was all for her but when Obama came on the scene I was hooked! I think we have lived so long under a mean spirited government here in OZ whose basic message was one based on fear ( I know you will disagree Lizzy ) that to see someone offering hope is a godsend. I was glad to see them go as I will be to farewell Bush but you would expect that of a child of the sixties!
Mar 30th, 2008, 12:32 AM
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The remarkable thing is how in just a few short months the Howard government has been consigned to the dustbin of history, by his Liberal Party successors as much as the general public. They've jettisoned almost all of what he hoped would be his "legacy", and few if any positive impressions of his years in office still linger. Howard himself is most likely to be remembered as only the second prime minister in Australian history to lose his own seat in Parliament at a general election, but perhaps even that accomplishment will be lost in the mists of time.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
Mar 30th, 2008, 06:38 PM
#12
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IMHO George W Bush is the best thing to happen to the people of the USA in that now the population knows what can happen if you are apathetic about voting. It appears that many more people are becoming involved this time round as they realise they shape the nation with their vote.
Let's just hope that the terrible scandal of blocking the votes of people who see a future with a black president, is not repeated.
Let's just hope that the terrible scandal of blocking the votes of people who see a future with a black president, is not repeated.
Mar 30th, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Very true, sunsurfsand, but people have short memories, I'm afraid. We followed the US into an unwinnable civil war in Vietnam over 40 years ago, and now we're at it again in Iraq and Afghanistan. (At least there were only two sides in Vietnam!) Truly, those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
But I agree it's a hopeful sign that so many more people are turning out to vote in the Democrat primaries. The Republicans, stuck with an ageing warhorse, seem to be trying to make the best of the situation - but it's not a done deal yet.
But I agree it's a hopeful sign that so many more people are turning out to vote in the Democrat primaries. The Republicans, stuck with an ageing warhorse, seem to be trying to make the best of the situation - but it's not a done deal yet.
Mar 30th, 2008, 07:08 PM
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Take your point sunsurfsand. I have always supported the idea of compulsory voting with the hope it might make apathetic voters at least think about it and we are lucky we live in a country where we can vote. However I guess Lizzy has a point and Americans have both the right to vote but are not forced to. And no I am not a Nimbin dweller Lizzy but I do still have enough hair to put the flowers back in!
Mar 30th, 2008, 08:41 PM
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my dear mates from down under... i'm very amused about several idiomatic sentences which i don't understand at all, so i better start getting at it soon as my trip to OZ is around the corner, please advise on:
-what is 'a whinging POM attitude'?
- and what is "And no I am not a Nimbin dweller Lizzy but I do still have enough hair to put the flowers back in!"? it sounds tooo funny for words, please explain peteralan, if you don't mind. i need to polish my aussie coloquial words
and with due respect and for whatever my south american opinion here in the OZ's forum is worth, regarding lizzy's remark on the right to live in a country were you're not forced to vote ( by the way, how do they force you? i'm having images of all kinds in my head ¿¿??) i would like to add that even though i think everybody should have the right to be free and do whatever; between OZ and NZ there are about 9 of the best quality of life and highest standard of living cities in the world. so i wish i wish i wish with all my heart that we were forced to vote if our quality of living equaled yours even, if it meant being dropped into the jaws of a great white at the GBR, if i didn't vote.(LOL)
BUT... politically speaking, if you live in a democracy- with all it's imperfections- the only way to make a difference, AND gain the right to protest later for whatever, IS to vote. abstentionism may be used very effectively sometimes as a political strategy, depending on the circumstances, and when it's done massively like in peru as a strategy to bring down the autocrat fujimori,( he couldn't say he won massively when the streets were empty)but when it's done individually, it becomes ineffectual and goes down the drain, so IMO you lose the right to be a citizen, for better or for worse. i rest my case... jj
-what is 'a whinging POM attitude'?
- and what is "And no I am not a Nimbin dweller Lizzy but I do still have enough hair to put the flowers back in!"? it sounds tooo funny for words, please explain peteralan, if you don't mind. i need to polish my aussie coloquial words
and with due respect and for whatever my south american opinion here in the OZ's forum is worth, regarding lizzy's remark on the right to live in a country were you're not forced to vote ( by the way, how do they force you? i'm having images of all kinds in my head ¿¿??) i would like to add that even though i think everybody should have the right to be free and do whatever; between OZ and NZ there are about 9 of the best quality of life and highest standard of living cities in the world. so i wish i wish i wish with all my heart that we were forced to vote if our quality of living equaled yours even, if it meant being dropped into the jaws of a great white at the GBR, if i didn't vote.(LOL)
BUT... politically speaking, if you live in a democracy- with all it's imperfections- the only way to make a difference, AND gain the right to protest later for whatever, IS to vote. abstentionism may be used very effectively sometimes as a political strategy, depending on the circumstances, and when it's done massively like in peru as a strategy to bring down the autocrat fujimori,( he couldn't say he won massively when the streets were empty)but when it's done individually, it becomes ineffectual and goes down the drain, so IMO you lose the right to be a citizen, for better or for worse. i rest my case... jj
Mar 30th, 2008, 09:13 PM
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... and i like obama's hope message but, what i get when i see him, is the feeling of maybe his being too good to be true? like a packaged polished, finished product sold on oprah's show.
on the other hand the fact that he comes for a multiracial family and was brought up in indonesia and hawaii, makes him much better suited to put himself of the shoes of the "other" and be empathetic to people in the planet in this globalized world, than "the billary combo". see? tol'ya ... i'm a libra.jj
on the other hand the fact that he comes for a multiracial family and was brought up in indonesia and hawaii, makes him much better suited to put himself of the shoes of the "other" and be empathetic to people in the planet in this globalized world, than "the billary combo". see? tol'ya ... i'm a libra.jj
Mar 31st, 2008, 01:00 AM
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Do you get a feeling that you have seen it all before with Obama Lavici i.e. " I have a dream " or too good to be true?
ja ja ja Lavici, I wish you luck with learning our lingo! I have been trying to master South American Spanish for the last 10 years without too much luck. My daughter managed it but then she is somewhat of a linguist and it does not help when you are in places like Argentina where they speak Spanish with an Italian accent and inflection then you go to Chile and it is different again. Getting back to the right to a democratic life - we get fined if we do not vote so where is the democracy in that? You can avoid getting a fine by turning up at the polling booth and drawing all over your ballot paper though but you still have to turn up.
The reference on Nimbin and flowers in hair and child of the 60s - a child of the 60s was regarded as a hippy ( some were ) and would smoke weed and whatever and be out of their little minds a lot of the time - they would prance around with flowers in their hair and the best place to see this was in a town called Nimbin in northern New South Wales where a lot of hippies decided to live in the 60s and they are still there and pretty much look the same as they did in the 60s. The air in Nimbin still smells the same and you can just about get a high walking down the street where you will be offered any of the latest mind numbing drugs on the market. Some of the hippies became productive and now run shops and farms but the town is still much the same as it was in those times. So when Peterallen said that he was a child of the 60s I asked if he lived in Nimbin - by the way it is very much a tourist destination and a time warp and is a very beautiful area around Nimbin if you happen to be on the border of Queensland and New South Wales. There is a particularly nice round trip drive from the Gold Coast through Nimbin and out to Byron Bay and back.
ja ja ja Lavici, I wish you luck with learning our lingo! I have been trying to master South American Spanish for the last 10 years without too much luck. My daughter managed it but then she is somewhat of a linguist and it does not help when you are in places like Argentina where they speak Spanish with an Italian accent and inflection then you go to Chile and it is different again. Getting back to the right to a democratic life - we get fined if we do not vote so where is the democracy in that? You can avoid getting a fine by turning up at the polling booth and drawing all over your ballot paper though but you still have to turn up.
The reference on Nimbin and flowers in hair and child of the 60s - a child of the 60s was regarded as a hippy ( some were ) and would smoke weed and whatever and be out of their little minds a lot of the time - they would prance around with flowers in their hair and the best place to see this was in a town called Nimbin in northern New South Wales where a lot of hippies decided to live in the 60s and they are still there and pretty much look the same as they did in the 60s. The air in Nimbin still smells the same and you can just about get a high walking down the street where you will be offered any of the latest mind numbing drugs on the market. Some of the hippies became productive and now run shops and farms but the town is still much the same as it was in those times. So when Peterallen said that he was a child of the 60s I asked if he lived in Nimbin - by the way it is very much a tourist destination and a time warp and is a very beautiful area around Nimbin if you happen to be on the border of Queensland and New South Wales. There is a particularly nice round trip drive from the Gold Coast through Nimbin and out to Byron Bay and back.
Mar 31st, 2008, 08:58 PM
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I'm actually taking a bit of an interest in this political race. For the democrats two 'minority' candidates. Initially Hilary but now I'm not sure I'm so clear cut. Both are certainly stirring things up and it seems getting people out to rallies and thinking about their next president. It seems the choice of candidate will go right down to the wire. Have to admire their stamina.
I personally think having the choice to vote or not is good. I hate our system here in OZ. At least if you have a choice you have put some thought into the issues (hopefully).
I personally think having the choice to vote or not is good. I hate our system here in OZ. At least if you have a choice you have put some thought into the issues (hopefully).
Mar 31st, 2008, 09:36 PM
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hi lizzy well, what do you think? we can meet for tea in hobart and we'll do a trade off... i'll show you south american( lot's of countries), but i'll tell you right now, colombians speak the most beautiful spanish, we in venezuela speak it different liliting entonations from one region to the next, and i may say argentinians speak spanish( and do everything) with a whinghing POM/gaucho attitude ja ja ja )and over crumpets you show me tasmanian,maelbournian, adelaidan and finally sydneysider...?
i LOVED all this nimbin story you tell me with flowers in the hair as i can relate to the flower children 0so may i use it for my journals later?
yes, i meant obama seduces me with his hope and youthfulness like kennedy and martin luther, but scares me a bit with all his seemingly prepackaged charisma,too good to be true in a politician, and such smooth talkin' babe; is because f/instance our own very charismatic but crazy autocrat here seduced almost everyone with his smooth talking and we've had hell to pay for the last 10 years. last week he offered to build popular circuses with clowns AND everything, for $10usdmillion each for the people. can you believe this? in this day and age? roman "panis et circencis" ALL OVER AGAIN! we've had no 'panis'(bread), cofee, rice or milk lately(for 3 months and counting) six newborns died overnight for lack of care in the only low cost maternity in the city for the poor last sunday, but he's offering clowns... and protecting the FARC guerrillas.
so, i'll translate a popular saying here: "if you have ever been bitten by a snake, you get scared when you see a stick".
i hear you when you tell me about being fined. i know what you mean. it's very constricting and frustrating of course,not PC at all but...like i wrote before, from my chair here in caracas, if it got us even close to where you guys are right now in everything, i wouldn´t mind being fined for every single election! ironically, we have been "fined" in our quality of life everyday for the last 10 years :'(
janine
well, what do you think? we can meet for tea in hobart and we'll do a trade off... i'll show you south american( lot's of countries), but i'll tell you right now, colombians speak the most beautiful spanish, we in venezuela speak it different liliting entonations from one region to the next, and i may say argentinians speak spanish( and do everything) with a whinghing POM/gaucho attitude ja ja ja )and over crumpets you show me tasmanian,maelbournian, adelaidan and finally sydneysider...?i LOVED all this nimbin story you tell me with flowers in the hair as i can relate to the flower children 0
so may i use it for my journals later? yes, i meant obama seduces me with his hope and youthfulness like kennedy and martin luther, but scares me a bit with all his seemingly prepackaged charisma,too good to be true in a politician, and such smooth talkin' babe; is because f/instance our own very charismatic but crazy autocrat here seduced almost everyone with his smooth talking and we've had hell to pay for the last 10 years. last week he offered to build popular circuses with clowns AND everything, for $10usdmillion each for the people. can you believe this? in this day and age? roman "panis et circencis" ALL OVER AGAIN! we've had no 'panis'(bread), cofee, rice or milk lately(for 3 months and counting) six newborns died overnight for lack of care in the only low cost maternity in the city for the poor last sunday, but he's offering clowns... and protecting the FARC guerrillas.
so, i'll translate a popular saying here: "if you have ever been bitten by a snake, you get scared when you see a stick".
i hear you when you tell me about being fined. i know what you mean. it's very constricting and frustrating of course,not PC at all but...like i wrote before, from my chair here in caracas, if it got us even close to where you guys are right now in everything, i wouldn´t mind being fined for every single election! ironically, we have been "fined" in our quality of life everyday for the last 10 years :'(
janine
Mar 31st, 2008, 10:22 PM
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If I was not going to be en route to the USA myself when you are in Australia I would have loved to have met with you Lavici but our paths will cross over the Pacific I think. I have been following the exploits of Chevez for some time and shuddering at what will happen to Bolivia seeing they have alligned themselves to him. He was one reason I did not get to your country and of course the FARC were the reason I have not been to Columbia - I have been to most of the other larger countries in South America and have been entralled with it to the point that I would have been very happy to have spent part of my retirement in Bariloche had it not been for the chaos that is the Argentinian Government and the frustrations that come with living there. Chile on the other hand is much better but family won out over moving.
Perhaps you will find another reason to come back to Australia another time and then perhaps we can catch up. Whatever you do though, enjoy your stay in our country and have the best of all times here.
Perhaps you will find another reason to come back to Australia another time and then perhaps we can catch up. Whatever you do though, enjoy your stay in our country and have the best of all times here.
