On looking down the list of questions and aswers today I decided to write and put in my 2 cents worth. Whilst I know that people have a limited amount of time to see Australia or NZ on a trip it seems to me that for both countries you are doing a diservice to them and yourself if you try and include both in a limited time slot.<BR> Whilst Sydney, Melbourne, Ayers Rock and the GBR are great destinations there is much more to Australia, and the same applies to NZ, than what is written in the brochures for tourists which is a presumption of a particular person of people's likes anyway. <BR>This forum is a wonderful site to try and get more out of your trip by going to places that the locals know but are not necessarily on brochures which are widely distributed. <BR>My best impressions and recollections of NZ are the little treasures that are outside the main tourist areas and the locals can give you that information any time. The same applies to Australia. I was in Adelaide a couple of weeks ago and the only time that I have seen Adelaide mentioned on this forum is as a jumping off place for Kangaroo Island ( which I visited twice on my trip to Adelaide because I had the luxury of staying with friends who have a small plane and do a twice daily run to K.I.) <BR>Whilst K.I is a nice attraction for people who are in the area I don't think that I would make a specific journey to South Australia to go there. I have seen more Koalas in a park on the south side of Brisbane where there is a colony of 5,000 and I could take you to see so many kangaroos that you would never want to see another, however if you want marine animals then KI is great. The areas around Adelaide are hardly ever mentioned and yet for access to the Outback it can't be beaten. The wine areas around Adelaide are absolutely fantastic and the little German villages are a treat. One of the wine growers in that area has just been named as the Best wine grower in the World. <BR>Neither do I ever see mention of the Murray River and the towns along it which make it Australia's Mississippi. The bird life of the Minindie Lakes area or the fantastic colours of the Flinders Ranges and Wilpenna Pound (sp??)<BR>As for Queensland - I am alway plugging Carnarvon Gorge because it is unique and whenever I get the chance I include Lawn Hill National park because it too is &quot;one of a kind&quot;. <BR>There are interesting and unique areas all around Australia and NZ that are by-passed for the tourists area and in the end it's the tourist that misses out. <BR>Don't try to see too much on a visit to us Down Under. As Americans you would think us strange if we flew into LA 5 days - Miami 6 days - NY 4 days and a quick trip or 7 days to Alaska to see the National park north of Anchorage.<BR>Everyone who writes on this site is interested in seeing that the tourist gets the most out of their trip so if you are coming to either Australia or NZ let us know what your likes are and perhaps we can see that your trip is really, really memorable. <BR>

Hi Liz--<BR>You made some good points so I wanted to top your post...As an American, I wouldn't think it weird that you hopped from LA to Miami to NY and onto Alaska, but I would think it exhausting, expensive and a packing nightmare! Might that be what you're getting at? ;-)<BR><BR>I think visiting countries as large and distant from eachother as ours are is a challenge. Both offer beautiful, diverse opportunities to the traveler and that means lots of decision-making. When I was planning what I thought might be my one and only trip to Australia, the hardest thing for me was narrowing down what I wanted to/could do in my timeframe. I know I missed loads--how could I not--but I still enjoyed every experience I had. I no longer think of that trip as a one-time thing; hopefully I'll be back soon to see some of what I missed...Carnavon Gorge and Tamborine Mtn...the rest of Alan's walks...mmmm, can't wait!<BR><BR>It was people like you and Alan J. and several others that did help me get my nose out of my trusty guidebook and experience a teeny bit of those special corners of your world. And because I took your advice, I got to met some wonderful Aussies along the way! We Americans almost always go to Australia thinking the koalas and kangaroos, Sydney Harbor, the GBR and Outback, but as great as all those things are, and they are all really fantastic!, it's really the spirit of the people that make us want to come back!<BR><BR>Thanks for all your help.<BR>Debbie L.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>

Hi Liz, Debbie and readers.<BR>Thanks Liz for your info about our outback.<BR>It's Wilpena Pound, one 'n'. It's a truly amazing area.<BR>Don't forget the Simpson Desert, after rain, no matter what time of the year its absolutely covered in wildflowers.<BR>Liz I also agree with you about Lawn Hill and Carnavorn.<BR>Another favorite place of mine is Chillie Beach, a little north from you, just south of Portland Roads.<BR><BR>Yes, there is much more to OZ than just our cities and Tourist Icons.<BR><BR>One of my participants on a recent tour wrote the following in another forum:<BR><BR>&quot;I travelled with Mike on an Outback Tour and I have to say it was the best holiday I have ever had in my life. I dare not start to tell you the stories of our journey. I learnt so much on this trip about the history, geography and wildlife and plants of Australia. I made new friends, meet the locals in out of the way places, experienced magical moments, and I want to go back for more.&quot; <BR><BR>We never saw a traffic light on that trip from the time we left Melbourne to when we arrived in Alice 15 days later.<BR>This lady is from Scotland and is coming back for more later this year. <BR>Like you Debbie ? <BR><BR>From my experience, at least 50% of visitors to Australia come back at least a 2nd time.<BR><BR>Here is a backpackers account of his Australian Experience for those of you who maybe interested:<BR>http://freedsville.org.uk/aus02/index.htm<BR><BR>Just thought of another couple favorites of mine, The Kimberley! and Purnululu !!<BR><BR>Enjoy your travels,<BR>Mike.

Thank you, thank you Liz!! You had been so helpful when I was planning my trip (this time period last year). Now I feel like I've just discovered another unopened treasure. Hubby and I loved what all we could see in a month last year and are planning to return in 2004 (God willing). This is going into my new file for must-sees since we'll try for two months this time!!<BR><BR>It would be wonderful to see posts like this from people like yourself telling fellow Fodorites about lesser known areas. I hope you will continue to think of people like myself in replying to so many posts.<BR><BR>Thanks again Liz - I'd like to learn as much about your country as you know about mine.

Dear One Wandering Jew(from one to another) Did you go on a tour? Thanks

Hi LN et al <BR>I developed a passion for travel at an early age and never a day goes by that I don't wish I was on that aircraft 'up there ' going somewhere new. The only way I could sort myself out was to run my own B&amp;B and have the world come to me - I don't have the B&amp;B now but it sure was fun for a while. When I grow up I have decided that I really would love to be a tour guide somewhere.<BR>Mike: You centainly have me at a disadvantage because I have no idea where Chillie beach is or Portland Roads so please tell me about those places. <BR>Hopefully the world situation will settle and travel will get back to normal again soon. I just about died the other day when I saw a fantastic cruise of 17 days priced down from $5450 US to $799 US - the fact it did stop in Morocco may have been a factor in the price reduction but as Morocco is on my list of &quot;must dos&quot; I would not have minded. Unfortunately one has to work sometimes to pay for this dreadful obsession for travel so I just could only drool! <BR>

Hi, LizF!<BR>I enjoyed reading your post and would like to endorse everything you said. It has been my observation from this forum that many people miss the best that Australia has to offer because they are too easily wooed by the tourist brochures which concentrate on a few so-called-Australian sites (where tourists are encouraged to mix with their own, feel at home and spend money!) at the exclusion of the little gems which don't provide any kickbacks to the tour operators and aren't all gussied up for the tourist trade. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I go to a foreign country, I don't want to &quot;feel at home&quot;... I want to feel WELCOME, but that's a different thing altogether. I don't want an artificial world created around me so that I see everything through a bubble of familiarity. That's why I could never understand, when I was in Cairo, why nearly every tourist I talked to was staying at the Cairo Hilton! Why not stay in the LOCAL Hilton and get an inhouse movie on Cairo? Then you wouldn't have to put up with all those beggars!<BR>Anyway, the point of all this is that Australia is seen at its best when you get out into the little country towns and stay in the little country pubs, but most of the tour operators wouldn't dream of recommending these because they think the tourists wouldn't feel &quot;at home&quot;. There'll be no one to hold the door open for you as you enter. No one to carry your bags up the stairs unless you ask, and then they'll be happy to do it as a favour, but not as a service. If you asked them to change travellers' cheques, they'd say something like &quot;What do you think, we're a bank or something?&quot; And their response to a request for air conditioning might be to open the windows. But they will be true blue Aussies, and they'll share a beer with you, and they won't rip you off because you're a tourist, and they'll laugh at your funny accent, and you'll feel strange, but welcome. <BR>So keep on with this good work of promoting these &quot;out-of-the-way&quot; places, will you, Liz? Australia will be better for it -- and so will the vacations of the people who read your posts. Strength to your arm!

Gee, thank Al. I feel warm and fuzzy now.<BR>Liz

Hello Patty--<BR>No, I didn't go on a tour. For the most part it was me doing my own thing...well, that's not exactly true. I did pick up a 2 day tour on Kangaroo Is. (I'd miss all the cool stuff if I were on my own. I need someone saying, &quot;Look, up in the 2nd tree to your left...&quot and I did tours for Kakadu and Litchfield while I was on the Top End. I didn't love the tour experiences there (felt I was being herded around like livestock) but happily I was the only American on the coaches. As Alan pointed out, trips are loads more fun/interesting/educational when one gets away from fellow countryman!!! <BR><BR>Debbie

Dear OneWanderingjew, Hello Debbie<BR><BR> Yes, I do agree with you. There is nothing like going and being with the locals. I recently came back from south africa and thank heavens did not go as a tourist. What a difference! Where are you from? I'm canadian.

Hi all.<BR>I too wish to thank you Liz and Alan for your valuable contributions.<BR>Although I have been traveling through Australia for the past 40 years, I still pick up great information from your contributions.<BR><BR>Liz, Chillie Beach is on the East Coast, about halfway between Lakefield Nat. Park and the tip of Cape York.<BR>It's a little hard to get to and you need a 4WD. You camp behind some low coastal sand dunes. It has a beautiful sandy beach, all along, just past the high water mark there are Coco Nut Palms. During low tide you can walk out to some normally submerged rocks and pick fresh oysters of them.<BR>Although now you can't find much evidence of it, there must have been a homestead or such there in the early days.<BR>If you search carefully you'll still find a covered well with 'sweet' water only about 150 meters from the ocean.<BR><BR>My travels these days are usually to the outback and deserts.<BR>At the moment I'm planning an East-West expedition for 2004 for a group of people from overseas to show them 'My Backyard' <BR><BR>I have another tip for people who come to Melbourne.<BR>You may know that Melbourne was 'built' on Gold from the Victorian Gold fields. There are many historical places, some now just ruins but rich in history.<BR>Most are easy accessible and less than a days drive from Melbourne. What all of those places have in common is that even today you can still find a little gold if you are prepared to use a shovel and a gold pan for a few hours. You won't get rich, but it's good fun, especially for kids.<BR>It's a cheap day out, but better still camp out for at least one night !<BR>If / when you had enough of the 'hard yacka', at most places you can tangle a line into the stream and catch a trout or two for your dinner.<BR>Wake up in the morning to the sound of Kookaburras, Magpies, Corellas and Cockatoos. So different to the Noises of a City.<BR><BR>Alan, I second everything you say about little country towns, country pubs, the locals and how they make visitors welcome.<BR>We recently meet a local at a Pizzeria in Coober Pedy and by the time we had our feed he had invited the family that was with me for a day out at his claim.<BR>That doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it's a real bonus.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Mike.

Alan,<BR><BR>I completely agree with your observations about Americans travelling to Australia (and other areas). In my opinion, there are 2 types of people -- tourists and travellers. I can figure out which I'm talking to in a short amount of time. <BR><BR>Many Americans simply freak out if they are too far removed from their &quot;comfort zone&quot; (these are the people who rush from the cruise ship in the Caribbean to the McDonald's instead of sampling some local cuisine) <BR><BR>Part of this is due to the fact that most Americans just don't travel as much as the rest of the world. In many cases people do not get 2 or 3 weeks of holiday unless they've been working at a company for quite awhile. If they've changed jobs it's probably only a week. <BR><BR>If the &quot;average&quot; person has only a week or two (and maybe they have to use part, or all of that time to visit family members in the US) it doesn't leave much time leftover for extensive travel to far flung areas.<BR><BR>Another reason -- you find a different mentality in different areas of the US. Those people don't want &quot;funny&quot; food or to go anywhere where they don't speak English...they want &quot;everything like it is at home&quot; (don't ask me why they even bother to LEAVE home)! I'm constantly amazed when people plunk down thousands of dollars for a once-a-year vacation and have done ZERO research on what to do when they get there. Years ago I had a client who came back from a week in Puerto Vallarta and still couldn't pronounce it correctly! <BR><BR>And another factor is age -- a good majority of the people you see visiting the typical tourist spots on those 50 passenger motorcoaches are older individuals who frankly, are happy they can still travel, to be able to visit another country; they want to see the highlights and are content to leave the driving to someone else, to feel safe travelling in a group and not worry where they're having dinner (because it's all pre-planned)and don't care about the nightlife as they're in bed by 8PM. I find that many of my older clients never had the money (or a companion to travel with) when they were younger, and it can be the first time they've been out of the US.<BR><BR>In fact this past weekend I visited my sister-in-law in Reno. My husband's brother lives in Vegas, and never travels anywhere...I was shocked (and sad) to hear him say that his daughter dropped him off at the Vegas airport and when he stepped inside he was &quot;confused&quot; as to what to do and where to go (can you imagine if he was at SFO or JFK or SYD)? He also showed up for the airport 2.5 hours early &quot;because I was afraid I'd miss my flight&quot;. On his return flight on Sunday I managed to convince him that he really didn't have to leave for his 4PM flight at 2PM (15 min ride to the Reno airport), but I could still see he was getting nervous as the time went by.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Melodie<BR>Certified Aussie Specialist