After lots of research, Here's what we came up with:
Oct. 8th, 2007 - Leave L.A. for Nagoya
Oct. 9th - Arrive Nagoya, stay 1 night to rest up
Oct. 10th - take train to Nagano area -
Stay 4 nights in Yudanaka Onsen. Visit Jigokudani Monkey Park, Shiga Kogen, Zenkoji Temple, Obuse.
Oct. 14th - Travel to Takayama -
Stay 4 nights in Takayama. There is a Lion Dance in Takayama on the 15th. Visit Kamikochi, Hida open air museum from Takayama.
Oct. 18th - Travel back to Nagoya, leave for L.A.
I'm trying to figure out a way to fit in
Tsumago in the Kiso valley but since it's our first trip to Japan and neither of us speaks or reads Japanese/Kanji, I thought it would be better to keep the hotel changes to a minimum. My main concern is being able to read bus/train schedules and I plan to get a bilingual atlas. Still, we've chosen rather out of the way places and are doing it on our own, so I'm nervous, naturally. I've done lots of independent travel in Switzerland and Germany but I do speak a little German so it made it easier.

What route are you planning to take from Nagano to Takayama? Assuming that you don't have a particular interest in going via Toyama, then I will suggest the other routes that are more efficient:

Nagoya- Nagano- Kamikochi- Takayama- Nagano.

Nagoya- Kiso Valley- ...

Nagaoya- Nagano- Kamikochi- Takayama- Kiso Valley- Nagoya.

You'll be ok traveling around. Maybe having Kiso Valley toward the end would make you more comfortable with visiting there, because you will have gotten the hang of getting around by then.

Takayama is worth a visit but four days is a long time.

The reason for going via Toyama would be because Toyama-Takayama is supposed to be one of the most scenic rail trips in Japan. But part of the trip was wiped out (typhoon, I think, maybe quake) and so parts of it are by bus on mountain roads (which was frightening to one poster here).

hi there
i know u worked hard on your itinerary and i hate to bring this up - but take another look at kyoto - we HATE big city travel but spent 5 days in kyoto and it was amazing. if u stick to the temples, especially along philosopher's walk and the gion are, it's quite amazing and definitely more intriguing than takayam. takayama is more of a 2-3 day trip at the most!

also, don't expect too much of the monkey park - it's a neat place, but they feed the monkeys there which is why they hang out by the pools. it's in a lovely gorge setting but no more than a 1 hour visit at the park itself.

and there is a very good cool monkey park in the Arashiyama area of western Kyoto, just fyi. let me know if you have any interest in that.

What is Arashiyama like? I'm a big ape/monkey fan so I don't like to see them in cages or being taunted by humans. It's okay that they feed them at the Onsen because they come and go as they chose.
So, Kyoto and not Takayama. That's definitely a possiblity.

It is situated on a river, w/a famous bridge over it. There is a bamboo forest (Sagano) there that you can walk through, and the incredible pictures I had seen of the bamboo forest are what enticed me to go. You can google Arashiyama and find all sorts of info on the attractions, or look here:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3912.html

Just across the bridge and a short walk to the right, is a trail up a mountain (not too far, 15 min. up) that takes you to the monkey park. The monkeys are all out in the open and in the trees, playing and cavorting. None are caged. In fact, they met us on the trail- we looked up and there they were watching us, a little intimidating at first but you get used to it and it is ok as long as you don't look at the males in the eye or try to appraoch a baby monkey. There is an enclosed hut at the top w/zoology student researchers and you can buy food (apples, nuts) and feed the monkeys thru mesh on the windows while you are inside. You can go outside of the hut (although I stayed in and watched them, but my daughter went out)-- the researchers pose themselves discreetly btwn you and the monkeys and watch you so you don't taunt them or look at the males in the eyes (not a good thing to do). We found it fascinating and a lot of fun. We spent about 2 hrs there. Highly recommend this unique chance to see monkeys in an open environment and to feed them. It is "their place"- this group of monkeys and their ancestors have apparently been on top of this mountain for a l-o-n-g time.

see:

http://uncannyvalley.org/uv/iwatayama-monkey-park/

nice monkey park photos here:

http://web.mac.com/kirstybeilharz/iW...oto-nikko.html

Thanks so much for the info and links, emd!
Now I'm considering Kyoto. I just need to find someplace peaceful to stay. We live in L.A. and like to stay in relaxing surroundings when on vacation, even if it's an adventure trip like this one will be.

No prob on that, magic. Look at the nicest rooms at Westin Miyako (or that hotel's separate "JaPanese house" facitites on their garden grounds if you want Japanese style- those are very nice), or the suites at the Hotel Okura, or the Hyatt Regency. I've stayed at the 1st two, great service, you will be relaxed. But Westin Miyako is more relaxing, on edge of both Higashiyama and Path of Philosophy, both great old areas to walk through, and next to a subway station but the grounds are SO peaceful as it is tucked away and is set on nice garden paths. Also has a great indoor pool. Okura is more hopping and centrally located for shopping and nighttime. Okura is also on top of an underground shopping area connected to train station, and has posh boutiques in basement of hotel. I think you'll be at home at either place, but Westin is much more zen. There are other very nice ryokans, but someone else would have to advise on those. Hyatt is new, in quiet neighborhood on oposit end of Higashiyama from the Westin. There are some reviews here.

If you don't want to pay that much, there are other places, but maybe not as much room space or as relaxing.

If you gave Kyoto even 2 of the days you had allotted for Yudanaka Onsen, you'd have a great 1st trip imo. But 3-4 days in Kyoto is a great deal too, as you can do a side trip from Kyoto too that way. For a 1st trip, two home bases is the way I'd do it.

Personally I would not miss Kyoto on a 1st trip.

ooo, i just thought of something. Since you seemed to be into more remote locations for this 1st trip w/your 1st itinerary, you could also stay outside Kyoto at one of the onsen in Ohara, and take the 30 min. but into Kyoto. Check out Seryo- there is another one but I can't think of name now, but it will come up if you search for onsen or ryokan and Ohara. Ohara is the absolute definition of peaceful, but it is removed from Kyoto, up in mountian. So is Kurama Onsen, in Kurama at the end of a hiking path, but I think Ohara is more interesting as there are some good temples and an old convent, and a community and neighborhoods there. I think there may be cool places to stya in Arashiyama also. But those places put you on fringe of Kyoto. That may be attractive to you, whereas most people want to be in Kyoto.

should be 30 min "bus"...

Thanks for all your valuable info, emd! Everyone on this board is so nice. I'm going to look into everything you mentioned. We may just end up skipping Yudanaka and check out Arashiyama instead staying in or around Kyoto the whole time. I also found this great web page called QuiryJapan that had other interesting things in that area to check out.

There are plenty of very cool, peaceful, and off the beaten path things to do around Kyoto. Do you like to hike? There is a great forest hike, about 2 hrs, between Kibune and Kurama, with shrines along the hike in the mountains outside Kyoto, that ends at the wonderful Kurama onsen. I have yet to do that, although it has been on the list both trips.

Yes, we like to hike. I just got a new Digital SLR camera and love to do nature photography.

I was just going through the threads here and found something called the Hirota Guest House. emd, do you know of this place? Apparently they have a cottage to rent with a bathroom (I'm assuming this means a shower or tub AND toilet) and also a kitchen that looks interesting.

That place is supposedly great if you can get it. The lady who owns/runs it was a professional guide and will give you all kinds of tips. Angethereader, a poster on this board, has stayed there w/her son and husband, loved it, and highly recommends it. I see references to it in all kinds of guides and online sites, so book quickly if you can get it and if it is in your prioce range.

I am sure angethereader will see this and chime in w/first hand experience. You can search for her trip report among her posts also, but I can't recall the title.

I googled the Hirota Guest House and only came up with the stuff on here, tripadvisor and frommers. No website of it's own. We're not planning on going until October but I may try the e-mail that's listed on frommers to check the 2007 rates. I'm torn between that and the Westin. That sounds wonderful! I've got to figure out the budget, though.

I was nervous using the internet to reserve Hirota Guest House, so I called her. The number was in my Frommers guide.

Her English is very good, and her comment was the people book so far ahead these days. I really wanted to get the cottage out back, and not one of the rooms because I really need my own bathroom.

I called at about 6PM CST. They are 14 or 15 hours ahead of me depending on daylight saving time.

We stayed there last March and we used the kerosene heater and kotatsu constantly. October should be much warmer, probably the best month to go.

Hirota herself was very helpful, and if I hadn't had our days so planned out, we would probably used her help more.

The guest house is in a really neat old part of town. The streets are barely wide enough for a car and a pedistrian path. I really liked the area. It allowed us to stay in a Japanese guest house and sleep on real futons - they were incredibly comfy.

The kitchen is tiny but there is a small fidge, sink and some coffee and tea cups. The bathroom has a toilet, sink, shower and tub. To be honest, we never used the tub, but the water stayed very hot for each of the three of us to have a nice hot shower.

I don't know if I'd want to stay in just a room there, but having the cottage with the three of us was great.

She even sent us a Christmas postcard, it's hanging in my office right now.

We only sent $100 downpayment. The rest we paid when we checked out, and we stayed 5 days!

If you want to read about our stay in Kyoto my trip report was posted last April.