offwego

Hi fodors peeps. I'm going to Burma at the end of July for three weeks. I'm starting to slog through recent trip reports and will get more specific questions as we go along, for now my first wonderings are around the idea of employing the services of a company such as Santa Maria to arrange everything or if I can do my own research, then just show up in Yangoon and find my own driver, tell him what we want to do over the next couple of weeks and hit the road? Is something like that an option? I worry about being shlepped around to all the "tourist spots" and not being able to really get to know the country or it's people. I don't want to be schlepped and I also want to avoid, whenever possible supporting the idiots running that country. Suggestions?

Oh and has anyone done the visa on arrival?

Craig

I think you'll find through those recent trip reports that Burma is not a place where you can "wing it". That said, just have Santa Maria arrange your flights, lodging and airport transfers. I think drivers can be arranged on the spot.

offwego

after spending the afternoon reading here and at LP I would agree Craig. Seems like letting SM arrange drivers and then letting the driver know what you want to do at each destination gets the job done. I don't think I want to fly in country unless I have to.

now I"m off to buy a Burma book from my favorite pub street book seller.....time to chart a course. more silly questions to follow.

Kathie

Lori, I'm planning our Nov/Dec trip to Burma right now. After my first experience, in which I tried to do it all myself, I plan to make my choices and have Santa Maria put together the puzzle pieces - flights and ground/water transport, make reservations at the hotels I select. As long as you tell them what you want they won't schlepp you to all the "tourist spots." That said, vast sections of Burma are entirely off limits to travelers. And there are fabulous place like Inle Lake and Bagan that you might think of as tourist spots that are must-see places for good reasons.

Do your research on who owns various places (LP was helpful with this). Be aware that no matter what you do, some of your hard-earned cash will end up in the coffers of the generals. All you can do is try to minimize that and maximize what you spend with the locals.

You'll love Burma!

offwego

Yes, letting someone put the pieces together and then help me make adjustments in the event of difficulties sounds like a good plan and it seems their pricing on things might actually be better than what I could put together alone, nevermind the headache and uncertainty. I do want it to be flexible though as I will want to linger if I really like a place and jet if I'm not.

Researching like a crazy woman right now, can hardly sleep!

I sure am reading a lot of opinions back and forth about how to minimize supporting the kleptocracy. What's up with paying most things in dollars? have you found that to be true?

Kathie what do you think about this comment I recently ran across from a poster who lives in country:

"Don't worry about avoiding money going to the govt - absolutely every dollar you change in Burma ends up with the government. It's illegal for the Burmese to hold dollars - this is one of the very few laws that's enforced (murder and rape don't attract any attention from the police, but holding dollars does).

So: when you pay for your guest-house in dollars, the gh has to pay those dollars to the bank (read "government") and receives in exchange a mix of kyat and FEC (an accounting device that allows them access to imported goods). Trains, planes, pagodas and major sights, all the same - the dollars go the government, by law.


In short, if you're going to Burma at all (and you should), don't lose sleep over your dollars and where they might go."

Kathie

Lori, even info from people who live in the country varies. The things that must be paid in dollars: airfares, train fares, and even bus fares for foreigners; hotel/guesthouses, admission fees.

Taxis (though taxis from the airport in Rangoon will take dollars), meals, anything else you buy.

It is illegal for citizens to have US dollars, except for those in work where they must take dollars (like my horsecart driver). Even then, officials will sometimes hassle these people when they try to exchange dollars for kyat. That's why I think it makes good sense to pay vendors, horsecart drivers, taxi drivers in kyat.

The banks determine what bills they will accept (therefore, the rule that you must have pristine US bills). Hotels and guesthouses do have to pay taxes, and they charge you about 10% in taxes which, of course, go to the government.

There are hotels/guesthouses that are owned by the government (or by cronies like Tay Za) and you can avoid staying at those places. There is also government-owned transport that you can avoid. Yes, the government will get some of what you spend. Not only do I try to minimize the amount going to the government, I try to maximize the money going to the locals. Some travelers think the cheapest guesthouses are the way to go. But go back and read my section on the Inle Lake View. This woman is investing in the community - training locals, establishing gardens to grow produce for her hotel, even beginning to buy cows and place them with local families, then buying the mild from the cows.

I agree, don't lose sleep over your dollars, but be conscious that you can make choices that make a difference.

pattyroth

Agree with Kathie and Craig. While my husband and I are very independent travelers, we elected to use an agency (Goldenrock) to make our arrangements and were glad we did. Everything went off as planned. They were totally open to our ideas and changes. While we could have found drivers once there, we chose to have them arrange them and it worked well for us. We just made up a plan each day with the individual guides and drivers. In Yangon, when a last minute idea (by our guide actually) would take us way beyond the usual limits, he just called the agency to okay it before we went. We did several side wanderings that were fun with no problems.
I also think I would arrange as much as possible ahead of time since you are going in July and there probably won't be so many people standing around waiting for work--low tourist season.

Kathie

Oops - I just noticed that my section on what you pay for in kyat lost it's label. The second paragraph in my post, starting with Taxis, is what you pay for in kyat.

rhkkmk

personally i would not be concerned with lining the general's pockets... it is a drop in the bucket to the $$ they get from the natural resources of the country and every other facet of burmese life...

if you are looking for a private driver, let me know...

dogster

Yup, lori, you're loosing sleep over a non-issue. Once you've been you'll know that nothing is that simple. That's a damn good reason to go. If you travel to Burma with shoulders burdened with baggage - all you will see is evidence of your preoccupations. All you need to know right now is that you don't know nuttin' - and what you think you know is wrong.

Which is the best challenge there is - and the best reason for going there.

Whichever way you play it, on a first visit you WILL end up doin the tourist shlep. Embrace it. You WON'T get away from it. There's a lot more to Burma than politics.

And, our understanding of the politics is facile, to say the least.

BTW, there are a number of excellent female guides in Burma. You might get more of an insight with one of them - but you'll always get the government line, unless you luck out.

offwego

I wish I was that deep, I'm not going there to worry over their politics. If I wanted that I could stay in Cambodia and have plenty to occupy myself with. Could go back to the US for that matter :/

It's a good point to not think about whether you're supporting the junta or not, but rather turn awareness to how you can help the guy on the street. I do that every day over here too.

I also don't mind seeing tourist sites, they are on the track for a reason; I just don't want to be taken to the cousin's gem shop on the way but I've developed a pretty effective method of warding that off.

I do like to connect with people though and if the burmese I've met in cambodia are any indication, that alone will be worth going. Good suggestion about female guides Dogster, I shall inquire. You right, I don't know jack. That's precisely why I'm going.

So far I'm feeling good about the itinerary. The part I detest is feeling married to it so I hope by engaging the services of SM I don't shackle myself. Seems like they might be pretty flexible.

Onward!

offwego

Bob where's your private driver?

Kathie

You won't be shackling yourself to an itinerary. Just let them know you want to be flexible.

We didn't engage any guides through Santa Maria. The only guides we used were Min Thu in Bagan and the Pa O guides required when you enter Pa O territory (going to Kakku or going to Sankar, the southern part of Inle). We had a female guide with us to Kakku, and we very much enjoyed her. We were able to ask lots of cultural questions and get her perspective. As you know, I prefer to hire a (rare) guide on the spot rather than pre-arranging.

I do plan to ask Santa Maria to arrange a driver for us in Mandalay, as mostly we want to see things outside the city.

gmoz

Offwego I have just returned form a trip to Myanmar and would agree with the comments above that using a tour company is the way to go. We used Shan Yoma who were excellent. We had an itinerary however changing it on the fly with our driver wasn’t a problem. We used our own guide in Pagan (the legendary Min Thu ) and this wasn’t a problem either. There was no pressure to go to gem shops etc. Everything was at your option.
You will find a tour company can get bookings and prices that you will struggle to match.
Curiously on my first trip to Burma in 1984 it was easier to wing it using tourist Burma, even when we only had 7 days.

marya_

Lori:

If you are willing to share details of your "pretty effective method of warding...off" pesky, unwanted stopping shops, I would love to hear more.

jules39

Lori I too had a couple of days when I thought a lot about where our money was going & then I just let it go. Made the best choices I could & went & had an amazing time. I started out with the idea of just having Santa Maria book flights & I would take care of most other things but when I got them to giv eme hotel prices etc they were getting at least as good as me if not better & then it was in their hands to make sure it all worked out so I let them do that also. We drove between Mandalay & Bagan & Bagan & Inle. I had Santa Maria arrange the cars & that worked out perfectly. We do not like to have set schedules & that is not the case at all just let them know what you want to do & that you want to be flexable.
It is a great destination with lovely people. Enjoy!

Smeagol

Lori I am going to be in Burma in August ( a very quick trip from Singapore) will have to see if our paths cross??